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Are we still discussing a Red Sox/Marlins deal? People are in denial, I understand that, but it's getting downright silly. Everytime some tout for the Red Sox calls the Marlins FO stupid, or their position stupid, IT REINFORCES WHY THE MARLINS WON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THE BEANTOWN BULLIES. 877583[/snapback] wait let me start off by asking this, does Epstein hate Beinfeist? Does Beinfeist hate Epstein?

IMO something like this trade is what its going to take to get AJ out of Florida. They already have a Arroyo on the team in Valdez/Moehler. A young starter ready for the ML in Papelbon, a prospect in Sanchez(who's two year away) and a reliever in an Embree. IMO that's what there lookin for remember the other thing with Arroyo he only has one more year of servicetime, so Ithink he could be become a free agent next season.I would think the Marlins want a player they could control under there payroll longer than a year. 877501[/snapback] Actually I believe Arroyo has a couple more years before he becomes a FA, and Epstein is now saying Arroyo isnt on the block.

RHP Jon Papelbon struck out 8 batters in 5 innings of 4-hit, one-run ball to nab his 1st Triple-A win to pace the PawSox in game one. Papelbon has pitched pretty good ball with Pawtucket, surrendering 21 hits and just 2 walks in 22.2 innings, K'ing 21. His ERA is 3.57. Will the Red Sox deal Papelbon? Only if they are involved in a bidding war and they feel they need to win that war. A potential Jason Schmidt deal may involve Papelbon. You give me Papelbon, Sanchez and a reliever I think the Marlins could bite 877486[/snapback] Heck no, we dont give away two SPs with Ace potential for a guy who isnt a bonafide ace, which at this point Burnett isnt. Plus Papelbon is just about ready to be in the major league rotation so I dont see the point in trading him, and hte only MR available is Embree.

It is more then just bad blood, Beinfest thinks that our best chance to win is with AJ here. If we can then keep him and run with it. Why not? I mean if you have a team that is in the heart of the playoff run, about to go into one of the biggest series of the year this weekend, why trade away AJ for a lesser pitcher and a prospect you wont see for two years? Does that address the extra bat we need? No. Does it remove Mikey's salary for us? No. Does it address the need for another relief pitcher (specially with mota/jones FA next year? No. Does it address our need for a SS next year? No. Basically it doesnt give us what we need. It is a pretty Package with a hyped (albeit solid) prospect and solid junkball pitcher. The FO thinks they can get more, and I dont blame them for holding AJ till the last moment to get more. Or if they do indeed run with him I dont blame them. We ARENT sellers. We are buyers. 877442[/snapback] Why do you guys all think Sanchez is an overhyped prospect? Did you ever consider the fact that maybe hes the real deal? Baseballamerica rates very highly of him and he'd be the best SP prospect in your organization. And you guys all treat Arroyo like hes Ponson or something. But really hes been one of the best SPs in the AL for the past 2 years and he has a nice breaking ball and he gets the job done and he stays healthy. So if the Marlins really think they can win then they can hold on to Burnett but passing up on an offer like that because of bad blood between owners is not the smartest idea, and to think Theo Epstein, one of hte best GMs in the league would want to add more to that like Hanley or another prospect is not gonna happen.

If the Red Sox did aquire Burnett I dont see them trading him. Yes I read the article but I think this is the Phillies talking because the Red Sox know not to trade a 28yr SP for a 33yr CL, especially considering the SP would be signed to a long term deal while the CL would be a rental. Idk about the White Sox, but I think this is just the Philllies thinking they could do that, otherwise a burnett for wagner swap doesnt make sense.

Granderson is not that great of a prospect first of all. If we trade Burnett for Granderson and Maroth then Beinfest really is stupud and the deal will be even worse than what O's offered us. Also tell me how can the Marte, McCarthy dela be better than the Sanchez, Arroyo deal? This is the way I look at: Best prospect in all the deals offer to us? Sanchez Most potential? Sanchez Best MLB player? I would take Arroyo over Marte and Julio so he's my pick as well. I don't know what the Marlins are waiting for especially with the Pirates demanding for Hermida. Im also hearing trading Olsen a possibilty? Why would the FO do this? If tehy did wouldn't you say its retarded? Seriouisly though im almost hoping Clement is out for 3 or 4 weeks and the Red Sox add something else (even if they don't have to) cause the way I see things going now Marlins are about to get raped in a trade and we are going to morgage the futire. 875948[/snapback] I dont see why the Red Sox would have any extra incentive to make a better deal for Burnett, unless Burnett can pitch in Arroyos spot and Clements spot, which he obviously cant. Plus we have Papelbon in AAA who can come in and start. I dont see why the Marlins insist on the White Sox offer over the Red Sox. If they insist on getting a MR and a SP why wouldnt they just take Arroyo and deal him for a MR whos a hell of alot better than Marte? Plus Sanchez > McCarthy so if you could get a better SP prospect and a SP who, if they wanted, they could trade for a top CL why wouldnt they do it? 876215[/snapback] We've already given you all the logical reasons, so at this point I can only add that they won't do it simply to aggravate you. 876491[/snapback] No really tell me why the Marlins prefer the White Sox package over the Red Sox?

Granderson is not that great of a prospect first of all. If we trade Burnett for Granderson and Maroth then Beinfest really is stupud and the deal will be even worse than what O's offered us. Also tell me how can the Marte, McCarthy dela be better than the Sanchez, Arroyo deal? This is the way I look at: Best prospect in all the deals offer to us? Sanchez Most potential? Sanchez Best MLB player? I would take Arroyo over Marte and Julio so he's my pick as well. I don't know what the Marlins are waiting for especially with the Pirates demanding for Hermida. Im also hearing trading Olsen a possibilty? Why would the FO do this? If tehy did wouldn't you say its retarded? Seriouisly though im almost hoping Clement is out for 3 or 4 weeks and the Red Sox add something else (even if they don't have to) cause the way I see things going now Marlins are about to get raped in a trade and we are going to morgage the futire. 875948[/snapback] I dont see why the Red Sox would have any extra incentive to make a better deal for Burnett, unless Burnett can pitch in Arroyos spot and Clements spot, which he obviously cant. Plus we have Papelbon in AAA who can come in and start. I dont see why the Marlins insist on the White Sox offer over the Red Sox. If they insist on getting a MR and a SP why wouldnt they just take Arroyo and deal him for a MR whos a hell of alot better than Marte? Plus Sanchez > McCarthy so if you could get a better SP prospect and a SP who, if they wanted, they could trade for a top CL why wouldnt they do it?

I hold my own word, I WOULD give up Hermida for bay, I WOULD give up olsen or hermida for redman, and I'd definately trade both for Odalis Perez. 875275[/snapback] Your right, everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's just some people's opinions are not very intelligent. Hermida and Olsen for O. Perez? Olsen's ability level is about the same if not better than Perez IMO, and Perez hasn't exactly been having a good year himself. You want to trade 2 players because of "inexperience", but you want to trade them for a player without much "experience". As for Bay for Hermida, Jason Bay is 28 years old. Hermida is 21 and already labeled as a MLB ready talent. It took Bay what 6 years to get there? It's taken Hermida 3. You see where I am going to this? 875293[/snapback] Jason Bay is 26 and is one of the top young hitters in the game, so I doubt they would deal him for a prospect when Bay is already proven and was selected to the allstar game

Ill tell you this now, the White Sox will NOT give up Anderson, McCarthy and Marte for Burnett especially since Burnett wont sign a long term deal with them until hes tested the market

they might as well rename espn into nesn...they basically cover the sox the same amount...so it doesnt surprise me that they say the red sox want burnett...everyone refers to the stankees as the evil empire...and they are...bunch of rich people who wish to buy the world series every year...but someone explain to me, how the red sox are any different...their organization relys on free agency and picking good players off bad teams with few exceptions (varitek) and not having much of a minor league system...personally i say that if the red sox want burnett, we ask for no less than hanley ramirez...with the past between the organizations, i say we tell the sox who wears the pants in this relationship and to remember that we still have one more title than them in the last 10 years...we are the smarter organization...with all that said...the marlins were built to win with the team they have now...and even if we keep burnett and lose him to free agency...who isnt to say, that with the draft picks we get, we dont find a couple of studs, plus with the money not spent on Aj we could pick up a very useful free agent...i say lets stand put unless we get a steal of an offer... 874349[/snapback] Basically the Marlins have 3 options 1. Burnett for Marte/McCarthy 2/ Burnett for Arroyo/Sanchez 3. Keep Burnett Thats probaly about it, thats the best they will be able to do and if they want more they are significantly overvaluing Burnett. In that case they keep Burnett and maybe get some draft picks. And if they dont win the World Series then they just passed up on a young SP/MR and a top SP prospect and they get probaly a 25+ pick in the draft and a 45+ pick in the draft. We dont completely rely on FA, we do sign our share of FAs but most of our team is built on low-profile FA signings and trades. Ortiz was a low-profile guy and hes a superstar now, Varitek was aquired in a trade, Nixon was drafted, Arroyo was a low-profile guy, Mueller was a low-profile signing, etc. And the 1 more World Series in the past 10 years, come on. And the Red Sox have no farm system thing is laughable also.

The bottomline is if the Red Sox want AJ there going to have to overpay Sanchez and Arroyo is not going to make the Marlins jump to the phone and yes we'll take it. Sanchez and either Lester/ Papelbon with Arroyo or Sanchez and Ramirez. They have to blow the Marlins Soxes off :lol ...you get what I'm saying by the way Contreras beat Arroyo yesterday 874208[/snapback] LOL Arroyo and Lester/Papelbon/Ramirez, not happening, and personally I say Sanchez and Arroyo is too much. Id rather do the Wagner and Soriano deal and forget about Burnett.

Well, there's another rumor now floating around that the Sox have moved on from Florida, since they will not return calls and are talking to Philly and Texas about 3-way deal in which Soriano and Wagner end up in Boston, with Arroyo, Sanchez, and Shoppach going to Philly--Philly sending Padilla and prospects ontop Texas. 874199[/snapback] Just curious where did u hear that from? I heard someone mention it also on another board.

You Sox fans have to stop fantasizing about getting AJ. It would be nice for you but it's not happening. Sorry. He's staying right where he is. Hopefully you'll make the Series again, and you can see AJ then. 874157[/snapback] your setting yourself up for a major letdown if you think Burnett is staying put

I really dont think the Marlins have much of a choice, since im not sure how willing the White Sox are to make a deal for Burnett knowing he wont sign an extension right now and will test the market. So basically the Marlins have two good deals on the table, Marte/McCarthy and Arroyo/Sanchez. Personally I think a young SP is better than a MR and considering Sanchez has higher potential id go with the Red Sox deal, but McCarthy is closer to being ready. Although I see Sanchez being a better fit because the Marlisn already have lots of young SPs and a guy with potential might be better. BUT either team will probaly ask for a 72 hour window, and Contreras will NOT be part of a deal unless the Marlins add a significant piece also.

Sean McAdam, on Red Sox This Week, saying the Marlins won't even talk to the Red Sox because of bad blood with Henry from the sale, the Millar thing, and now the draft. They think the Red Sox rigged the draft to get Craig Hansen. 873691[/snapback] Marlins are idiots then if they arent trading because of bad relationships. Personally I think the Marlins have been idiots throughout this process because of making someone take Lowell and blaming the Red Sox for taking Hanson. If they wanted Hanson they should have drafted him and payed the money but they were too "low budget." If they dont want to trade with the Red Sox, whatever there just being even more dumb than they already have been since they probaly cant trade him the Chicago since they will want a 72 hour window and Burnett probaly wont sign there, but he will with the Red Sox. 873773[/snapback] It's a horrible shame that little Theo won't be able to get what he wants. Perhaps he should have thought more when he made his bones humialting the Marlins. But thanks for the post, and calling the Marlins organization idiots on several levels. 873779[/snapback] Im sorry but if the Marlins ever want to get something done they cant be holding old grudges against other teams and insisting someone take a large contract off their hands while expecting the other team to overpay for Burnett. If they want to keep Burnett fine, but they know he wont resign and maybe they'd get a draft pick or two for him, maybe they could win the World Series but letting a big time pitcher just walk for draft picks isnt that smart.

Sean McAdam, on Red Sox This Week, saying the Marlins won't even talk to the Red Sox because of bad blood with Henry from the sale, the Millar thing, and now the draft. They think the Red Sox rigged the draft to get Craig Hansen. 873691[/snapback] Marlins are idiots then if they arent trading because of bad relationships. Personally I think the Marlins have been idiots throughout this process because of making someone take Lowell and blaming the Red Sox for taking Hanson. If they wanted Hanson they should have drafted him and payed the money but they were too "low budget." If they dont want to trade with the Red Sox, whatever there just being even more dumb than they already have been since they probaly cant trade him the Chicago since they will want a 72 hour window and Burnett probaly wont sign there, but he will with the Red Sox.

Allright Ive thought about it and I guess I would be open to trading Arroyo and Sanchez for Burnett. Although id feel much easier if Reed was involved also. Burnett has too much potential to turn down and the chance at a potential uber ace is too hard to pass up. I believe Sanchez is gonna be a terrific player, but Arroyo might start to fade and I think trading him now is the best thing. So our future rotation would be: Burnett Clement Miller Papelbon Lester Plus the Red Sox would never have 3 young SPs in their rotation at the same time, and many scouts see Sanchez as a set-up man but we'll see. BUT if theres no 72 hour window than no way and we'll walk away because we dont trade that talent for a rental, plus I tihnk Burnett would love to sign with Boston.

Lester and Papelbon are superior pitching prospects, Papelbon is real close to being ready (maybe a september callup) and Lester has been dominating in AA and is a LHP and should be ready in a year or two also. Sanchez is very good also and I dont want to trade him since he also has ace potential but he may need 2 years still, but id rather wait 2 years then deal him now.

I really cant see the Red Sox trading Burnett for Wagner, why would we deal a 28yr old potential ace SP for a 33yr old CL?

I might do Miller/Sanchez, and you can forget about Hanley since I dont think the FO would trade Hanley for Burnett straight up.

Im a huge Red Sox fan and a HUGE Sanchez fan. Last year in Low A Lowell Sanchez went 3-4 with a 1.77 ERA. This season in High A Wilmigton he continued to dominate with a 2.41 ERA, and was promoted to AA. In his first AA start he was very good, his second he was ok but not great and in his third he was flat out dominant again going 7inn, 3 hits, 11Ks. The guy is 21 and has ace potential, and after 3 starts he has a 1.28 ERA in AA. His best pitch is a plus fastball with great movement, with a changeup that many scouts call another plus pitch along with a curve that could be a plus pitch also. Im definetly NOT in favor of trading Sanchez especially with Arroyo also, thats why I dont see it happening, unless the Marlins throw in another player with Burnett not named Mike Lowell. Hes currently our 3rd best SP prospect but thats just because we have Papelbon and Lester also who project as aces also. But sanchez is a top 40 prospect in the league. www.soxprospects.com is a great site for Red Sox prospect info also

Again from a Red Sox standpoint I would much rather walk away and keep Arroyo and a potential ace then taking a risk with Burnett. Im really not sure if id even do Sanchez for Burnett, thats how good Sanchez could be. hes 21 and hes been dominating at every level hes been to. Arroyo is a good young SP and if the cost is Sanchez to upgrade, Theo just walk away its not worth it. Plus the Red Sox arent stupid and that trade would never happen.

The Red Sox will NOT trade Burnett if aquired.

Personally I say screw Burnett if we have to give up Sanchez. And if we have to take Lowell then someone is BSing on front street because theres no way that happens. Plus I highy doubt Theo will part with one of hte top pitching prospects in the league.

news flash Nevin has a 10mil salary also