bobbob1313

I hope the Marlins are even around long enough to get 10,000 losses.

My mom's college roommate is married to his manager/agent so I met him a few times when I was younger. There's a picture in a hooter's down in Miami somewhere of my dad, John, John's agent and a bunch of the hooter's girls taken during the weekend of one of the tournaments at Doral about a decade ago.

Personally, I'd say there are a few other songs that could probably put their name in the discussion, but in the end, it's going to be "Billie Jean". That is such a ridiculously good song. That bassline is incredible.

Racism is sad, but not bizarre. In real life, I have met some people who have surprisingly admitted to being racist. Among these is an upper tier detective, and more than a few regular beat cops or deputies. Why they would admit such things I can't tell you. But it was under circumstances where I was spending lots of time talking to them, I am white and around their age so they felt comfortable, and I was employing them in an off-duty detail. And I heard the words that they would use in talking about black people, and in talking about Dontrelle in particular to one. And I read the same words here by a MB member. That's where it came from. Was Tswift one of these racist police officers?

Neither of those videos are "Billy Jean" by Michael Jackson.

Didn't somebody say we got rid of our entire international scouting department recently?

...because, to me, it seems as if Uggla's tried so many different approaches in the 2 hole. When Hanley's going good, Uggla's trying to hit behind him in the noble 'get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in' mold. That's fine and dandy, but that's not his game. It seems to me that Fredi's apprehensive to put a hit-and-run on with Uggla when Hanley's on, I have no idea if that's managerial philosophy or player dictating the calls. Conversely, Hermida seems to be Fredi's favorite hit-and-run guy. Now, I realize that's due in large part to a manager hoping to kick-start a player who may be being overly selective, but just from my view of the team, there are three guys you can count on to hit a fastball hard, and the other way, in a fastball count*...Hanley, Cabrera and Hermida (I say fastball count generally when the hitter is ahead, or the pitcher is facing a 2-2 count). Letting Hermida do the hit-and-run thing in the 2 hole is good for Hanley, it's good for him, it's good for Cabrera. Even if that value may be overstated, just in a very simplistic sense, having a lefty in the two hole opens up the basepaths for Hanley as Hermida obstructs the catcher's view of 1st base just being in the batter's box. Even if that buys Hanley just an extra step, that's all he needs...as we saw tonight, even bad jumps result in bang-bang plays at second base. As for Uggla, he can hit .250 with 25 HR's 6th and have a ton more value to the team. If he makes an out, so what, it's minimized in the lower half of the lineup, and generally speaking, our second best "pure" slugger is a guy you want 5 or 6. Since the 5 hole leads off more innings than anyone outside of the leadoff man over the course of a season, Willingham's best suited for 5, leaving Uggla 6. Now, allow the "nintendo generation" jokers to have at it. Of course the horse manure that is this post above ignores Uggla's real problem which is mechanical, not psychological but then again the author's own deeply disturbing problems in that area may explain the theory. While Uggla may be frustrated by his performance lately it's his approach at the plate that is at the root of the problem. That said I'm not again moving him down and I'm hoping Hermida has hit rock bottom and has started taking the game seriously instead of taking the lackadaisical approach he's displayed at various times this season because we are so much a better team with a productive Jeremy Hermida than without. Jeez, you are an angry person, huh? Try to keep it on topic, please. Nobody wants to read your vitriol aimed at Swift. Uggla's problem is that this is who he is, and this is actually quite a lot of production from the 2nd base position, judging by the fact that he's on pace for a 9.0 WARP3 for the season, which is higher than Jeff Kent's 2005 (When he had 30 homers, 100 runs and 105 RsBI). Uggla's a damn productive player despite his low batting average. He is helped by walking like 7% of the time, which is an above average rate, and his great power. Uggla is one of the players we don't really have any reason to worry about, as he's matching his production from last year (although he does seem to be going at it a bit differently.) As for Hermida hitting rock bottom, these are his stats for July, posted like 2 posts above yours: .353 / .421 / .676 / 1.097 3 HR 7 RBI

I agree with Sheff it easier to keep latin ballplayers happy than African -Americans... You can pay a latino in Tacos and burritos which is much cheaper than Fried Chicken and Ribs To be serious the African-american athlete have stepped away from baseball in the era of the bling-bling Basdeball has lost its appeal. There are very few Alan Iversons, Shaqs type of personalities in baseball. Baseball has Tori Hunter and Dontrelle. The media have made Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb recognizable faces more so than say Ken Griffey Jr or even Barry Bonds, Is it the chicken or the egg? I am not sure but baseball, as much as I love it has not marketed itself to the hip-hop generation and has fallen appeal wise in the inner cities. There is a movement by the players to try to change that now. In little-leagues the faces are getting whiter and whiter. There is a culture still in the hispanic community that baseball have produced some of it's greatest Heros. Clemente, Aparicio while countries like the Dominican Republic it is the riches and glory away from a life of poverty and struggle. Don't see very many latinos in the NBA although the numbers are increasing there. You see even less latino in the NFL. The best latino player in the NBA is Carmelo Anthony and most people dont even know he is latino. In the NFL you do see a latino offensive linemen here and there but no real name of impact. There isn't anything close to a Ladanian Tomlinson or a Reggie Bush "Chopped Liver"

In 2003, his ROOKIE YEAR, he went 14-6 and didn't even get called up until May, where he started off 11-2. Oh yeah he won ROY. So yeah, lets just throw that year away and keep hoping Hermida will be our savior. By the way, I like Hermida, but he hasn't proven anything yet. As opposed to throwing away everything he's done minus the first 15 starts in 03 and his 05 season. Thats perfectly fine to do.

Their norm? None of these pitchers has pitched to anybody but Olivo. Trelle is the only starter we have (aside from Kim, who Olivo doesn't catch) that had a significant number of non-Olivo innings, and many of them were in his ridiculous (and probably flukey) 2005, so his numbers are skewed. Take out what he did in 05 and his numbers with and without Olivo probably look similar.

Admin Beinfest would have to be voted Mayor of Miami if he could pull off that trade. Jeez

Miguel Olivo is the reason Dontrelle Willis has no control. I get it.

For the record, I'm not saying I would have booed him, or that I have booed Marlins players, but I have no problem with other people doing it.

:lol :lol :lol :lol You have to love it when a guy gets "lucky" for the entire year of 2005. Keep it comin bob........I havent laughed this hard since I watched George Carlin 4 nights ago!! Do you have a better explanation for why a guy who has had HR/9IP of .7, .9., .85, and 1.1 in every season posts a .42 rate for a whole season? Or why he posts a career low H/9 while maintain career averages in K/9 with only a slight difference in BB/9? The most glaring factors in that season were his low hit rate and his low home run rate, both of which can be mostly attributed to luck. If not luck, then why can't he replicate that success in any other year? In his defense, he's probably had some bad luck in terms of home runs allowed, but his walk and k rates are both extremely bad so at the most, his bad luck with home runs has cost him like 5 or 6 earned runs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voros_McCracken Read that for a rough explanation of why "bad luck" and "good luck" are certainly real, at least in terms of pitchers. As for the home run rate, that tends to regress to normal for the course of a whole season, but in 2005 it didn't. I don't know what the explanation there is, but it seems like luck would probably have had at least some effect, since he's shown that he can't sustain a HR rate that low for a whole season other than in that one season. That points to a run of good luck in that season. Keep laughing, if you want, but I'm not proposing some revolutionary idea here.

BobBob....nobody has ever said that Dontrelle is, has been, or will be, some great #1 pitching ace. And nobody has said that Hermida should be tossed in the scrap heap. I'm hopeful that they'll both have a better second half, and both have a nice long productive career. It's actually you who's letting your eyes speak if you think that Dontrelle is a sack of mung and someone who's been throwing batting practice. That's just not a fact. He's had 2 real bad outings. The rest of the season has been a struggle for him, but not at the point where he's throwing batting practice. . . . That's my last post on that subject. This thread really is about BOOING the home team. And booing Dontrelle in particular. If you want to slide down that slope with TSwift as if you're a 2-man luge, go ahead. Lots of people have said Dontrelle is an ace. A lot more people have said Hermida is never going to amount to anything and that his minor league record doesn't mean anything, and that a new RFer is our most pressing need. If you haven't seen these threads, go do a search. I don't really see whats wrong with booing a player if they aren't performing? It shows your displeasure with them. At the end of the day, they have to know they have to play better, but who really cares if the fans boo them? If Hermida dropped another couple of flyballs tonight and you were there, would you boo him? I bet you would. Dontrelle's been awful this year, why shouldn't the fans let him know about it?

Well, if you change your mind Im willing to back my prediction that the Marlins will have more wins than the Nats with a nice old fashioned ban bet. Dude, I will never agree to that. So drop it Please do it. For the good of the board.

"Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players". Lets get real here. I understand where your coming from with the "in today's game" stuff but why don't we just send Honda robots out to play instead? You root for the names on the back and the name on the front. And please stop going back to the whole Dontrelle isnt an ace thing. I never said he was an ace (although unlike you I believe he has a SHOT to regain his 2005 form). This discussion is not about him being an ace or not. Its about fans booing the home team and calling players a sack of crap. Fans are allowed to boo a player if he has a bad game, I think. At some point they have to let Dontrelle know that they don't appreciate him playing like crap. He's had about 2 years of goodwill generated by his 2005 season, but he's got to put up or the act is going to wear thin. I wouldn't be surprised if this turn him around, if he's as emotional and hard working as everyone seems to imply that he is. He wants the fans to like him, stop pitching like Victor Zambrano, and start pitching like Carlos Zambrano. You can support a player and still say they aren't good. Thats how I felt about JP when he was here. Hell, I know Reggie's not good, but I root for him since he plays for the Marlins. If Dontrelle gets traded tomorrow, I won't be rooting for him anymore. He's a great person, undoubtedly, and he appears to genuinely enjoy the game of baseball (as opposed to, say Josh Willingham, who appears that he would rather be playing Badminton, right?), but if he didn't play for the Marlins, I wouldn't root for him anymore than the hundreds of other "good guys" who love playing baseball on other teams.

Are you the same BobBob that comes to the defense of Hermida, who's NEVER been anything but potential. And who drops flyballs like they're grenades. And who's hitting close to the Mendoza line. Yet you find these "lucky" stats to defend him and maintain that he's destined for greatness. . . Both Dontrelle and Hermida are hopefully both going through a rough patch, though Hermida has never shown a good streak in MLB. Dontrelle at least does have a lifetime ERA that would put him at #15 on the active player list. The hacks ahead of him. Maddux, Oswalt, Clemens, Santana, Big Unit, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Zambrano, Schilling, Glavine, and Hudson. I can pull out the "lucky" stats that show Dontrelle had incredible luck in terms of home runs allowed, but you'll just say "I know what my eyes tell me". And I am the same bobbob who comes to the defense of Hermida when people say he's never going to amount to anything in the majors or that we need to worry about RF more than CF and C. I like to think I'm pretty consistent in my stances (Hermida's peripherals show he is better than his BA indicates, Dontrelle's peripherals indicate he wasn't as good in 2005 as his ERA and he is about as good as they say he should be now).

Lets not stoop to dropping F-bombs bro. I know your much smarter than everyone else and like to be "that guy" but we can do without the obscenities. And 97 pitchers in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF BASEBALL is not a lot. lol Dontrelle is really really struggling right now (just like 30% of the team). Im not gonna sit here and tell you that he's pitching like a #1 or a # 2 or even a # 3 right now because he isnt. Being a fan is about being there for the players during the good times and the BAD times. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who gets an erection when Dontrelle has a bad outing and calls him a "sack of crap" then be my guest. 97 pitchers in the last 50 years (they didn't award Cy Youngs before 1956). I'm not saying it's not impressive, but numerous pitchers have finished runner up in the Cy Young for one year and had overall crappy careers. Esteban Loaiza was a runner up for a cy young. Are you going to argue that he's one of the best pitchers in the game? Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players, especially not in today's game, where players spend like 3 years with a team and then get traded or leave. If you are telling me being a fan of a team is all about loyalty to that team's players, then you are kidding yourself. It hasn't been that way for 30 years. You root for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And I guess you are implying that I'm not there for the players during the bad times, which explains why I've been to 11 home games already even though they've only won 3 of the ones I've been to. I root for Dontrelle, but I don't expect him to succeed anymore, because frankly he's much more likely to toss absolute crap up there than he is to be dominating. Thats simply a fact, it's not a matter of "going through a rough stretch", he's simply not as good a pitcher as we expect him to be. If we came into the season expecting a 4.0 ERA like we probably should've, we'd be much less dissapointed. But we expected him to be an ace. He isn't, and save for one year, never has been and never will be. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who serves up batting practice every other time he takes the hill be my guest.

I believe Swift has an IPhone which would make it possible to be in the game thread while at the game. But anyway, you gotta love how some "fans" will stick with players through thick and thin! The guy is a runner up for the Cy Young (how many pitchers in the history of the game can make that claim) and he's diving into home plate during Spring Training and what is he? According to bobbob and Swift he's a SACK OF CRAP. The Marlins don't even know what great "fans" they have. Like 97 pitchers could say they are cy young runner ups in the history of the game. f*** you if you are trying to tell me that since I don't think Dontrelle is a good player I'm not a true fan. I'm not sure about you, but I root for the Marlins, not "Random player on the Marlins". Who gives a sh*t if he's diving into home plate head first during spring training? Seriously, ignore the fact that he's been awful this year (His current ERA+ puts him on the Jason Johnson, Jose Lima, Scott Elarton level) and wasn't all that great last year, what we should judge a player on is whether or not they dive headfirst into home plate during a meaningless game. Seriously, get off your tower for a minute and try to at least see where we're coming from. Sure, he plays hard. As do most players in the majors. Ok, he puts himself at risk for injury in a meaningless game. I guess that's an admirable trait, though it shouldn't factor in when discussing a player's on the field performance during the regular season. Last season, he was 12% better than the average major league pitcher. This season, he's 15% worse than the average major league pitcher. And if you actually read what I wrote, I never said he was a "sack of crap". I said "I happen to think he's simply not all that good of a pitcher. A "sack of crap" is probably not the best choice of words, but the point is probably closer to the truth than you are willing to admit. He's never struck out enough batters to be dominant, and couple that with him absolutely losing his control the past 2 years and it's a pretty easy outcome to see most of the time. " If true fans are supposed to turn a blind eye to their team's player's faults, then I guess I'm not a true fan. Sorry.

So you agree then that Willis is, in Swift's words, "a sack of crap"? Ballplayers have moments of greatness and sometimes rough patches like Willis is going through right now. Frankly, I wouldn't use that kind of ugly name calling about any player who has made it to the major league level regardless of his performance when here, not Willis, not Joe Borchard, not Alex Rodriguez (who has been called worse at times in NY) I think it speaks more about the person saying it that the ballplayer in question. I happen to think part of his woes right now may be carrying the weight of all these trade rumors who guys like Rosenthal seem compelled to spread day after day week after week. He pitched well last August. I'm willing to at least wait until then before deciding how I see his future with the Marlins unfolding. I happen to think he's simply not all that good of a pitcher. A "sack of crap" is probably not the best choice of words, but the point is probably closer to the truth than you are willing to admit. He's never struck out enough batters to be dominant, and couple that with him absolutely losing his control the past 2 years and it's a pretty easy outcome to see most of the time. I'm not sure this is exactly a rough patch. This is what he is, a 4 era pitcher. If he can regain some control, his upside is probably David Wells, a good middle of the rotation starter. But right now, he's not even that, even though there are still many people who think his upside is top of the rotation. MOst of his value comes from being relatively cheap and club controlled for 2 years. If we want to get anything for him, we need to trade him. If the Mariners will give us Balentein and Clement, we should do it right now. Also, you guys really seem to hate Swift. What gives? It's a message board, you disagree with him, ignore him. It's not worthing getting as worked up as you guys are. As for "A sickness", pierre, you seem like you are about to mount like a full offensive on "bringing swifty down" or something. Just ignore him, man. If it bothers you that much that you think he's a racist (he's obviously not, even though he did dropkick that black baby as previously noted) and you think he has a sickness then just ignore him. Nobody wants to read your half baked psychological breakdowns of his posts. Give it a rest.

Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people. Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game. With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor. Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow. Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is... Well, what would you call Dontrelle Willis right now? A good baseball player? HE's not that. He's closer to a bad baseball player than a good baseball player. How about this: A mediocre to bad baseball player who has flashes of brilliances every few starts and who appears to be enjoying himself even when he loses, and who appears to try hard (unlike every single baseball player in the league).

. . . Swifty, it was I who brought up racism, but it was in real life, not on these boards. As you know, I went out of my way 5-6 times to say that I wasn't insinuating anything about you or anyone else on the board. But your statements today make me rethink that thought. From what you've expressed, you are indeed a racist, and not just toward Dontrelle. Any uppity head bobbing black person will feed your sickness. I can't say I feel sorry for you, as I don't. You're a sick person. . . When Marlins2003 says you got chased off the ESPN boards with your tail between your legs, I thought this doesn't sound right. How in the world can anyone get chased off an Internet message board? Today, I can see how. . . It's embarrasing at times to be a Marlins fan. Sitting at home or at the game and seeing 5000 people there. It's more embarrasing to have any association with the likes of you. One time, Tswift kicked a little black baby just for headbobbing in his stroller next to him. It was just disgusting.

I'd like to see this: Alfredo Hermida Hanley Cabrera Uggla Willingham Hammer Olivo That sounds like a pretty strong lineup, and I"m one of the few people that prefers Hanley hitting 3rd. We just need to tell him to do the same thing he's doing at leadoff, and not try too hard. Take your pitches, wait for the hanging slider or curveball. Steal some bags. Hammer batting twice in succession. I like that. According to physics and, MLB rules and stuff, it would be near impossible, but damn it I like it. :banghead :banghead :banghead Thats what I get for not rereading my posts. That would be a pretty awesome lineup, though, huh? :mischief (Replace "Hammer" with Jacobs.)

I'd like to see this: Alfredo Hermida Hanley Cabrera Uggla Willingham Hammer Olivo That sounds like a pretty strong lineup, and I"m one of the few people that prefers Hanley hitting 3rd. We just need to tell him to do the same thing he's doing at leadoff, and not try too hard. Take your pitches, wait for the hanging slider or curveball. Steal some bags.