November 14, 200421 yr Anaheim's Guillen on Marlins' radar By Juan C. Rodriguez Staff Writer Posted November 14 2004 On the final day of the otherwise uneventful general managers' meetings last week in Key Biscayne, Marlins GM Admin Beinfest said he was exploring an "intriguing" idea. According to teams that spoke with the Marlins, the player who caused their most serious brainstorming was Angels outfielder Jose Guillen. The Marlins spent part of their efforts investigating ways to acquire Guillen, who the Angels are shopping after a tumultuous first season with them. Guillen, 28, signed a two-year, $6 million deal last winter and is due $3.5 million in 2005. The Angels also have a $4 million club option in 2006 they can buy out for $300,000. For a payroll-challenged team like the Marlins, that's a reasonable commitment for a guy who batted .294 with 27 homers and 104 RBI in 2004. In addition, Guillen batted .327 with runners in scoring position and totaled nine outfield assists. Guillen, who is participating in the Marlins Celebrity Golf Classic on Monday, does come with more than a potent bat and strong arm. At one point last season he ripped his pitching staff for not retaliating after he got hit in a game against the Blue Jays. His biggest transgression came at season's end, when his outburst after manager Mike Scioscia lifted him for a pinch runner prompted the Angels to suspend him the final seven regular-season games and the division series against the Red Sox. Landing Guillen may not be as easy as dealing directly with the Angels. The reigning American League West champs need a center fielder and would love Juan Pierre, but one industry source said the Marlins aren't parting with their leadoff hitter. One possible scenario could involve a three-way deal with the Angels and Diamondbacks. The Angels still covet left-hander Randy Johnson and could employ the Marlins' help to get him. According to one National League executive, the Marlins and Diamondbacks spoke often leading up to last season's trading deadline. The Diamondbacks are fond of left-handed power-hitting first baseman Jason Stokes. The Marlins also have an influx of quality arms headed for Double-A next season. To part with any top-flight pitching prospects, the Marlins would likely need a quality, affordable reliever in return. Brendan Donnelly, perhaps? Forget about Fort Lauderdale native Scot Shields. One American League source said the Angels aren't moving him. Such a deal would likely take a while to cement. The Angels probably wouldn't be able to accommodate both Johnson and free agent center fielder Carlos Beltran, who they are pursuing as well. In addition, the Diamondbacks haven't determined what they're doing with Johnson. Owed $16 million in 2005, Johnson can veto any trade. The Diamondbacks have not ruled out signing Johnson to an extension, but he may not want to be the cornerstone of a rebuilding project. Last season, the Yankees were thought to be the only team for which Johnson would waive his no-trade clause. To accommodate Guillen, the Marlins would look to jettison Juan Encarnacion. That's problematic as well, considering Encarnacion had the National League's third-lowest on-base percentages in 2004 and is coming off shoulder surgery. He is owed $4.45 million in 2005. Link Aren't we looking for a left-handed power hitter? Nevertheless, Guillen would be a nice pick-up. Not sure exactly why the Angels would want to move him. And then moving Encarnacion would be problematic as well. We'd have to give up several quality prospects to get this to work out.
November 14, 200421 yr I like Guillens numbers. He would be very useful. We definetely need left handed power. We need that more than anything. Depending on the quality prospects, it sounds good.
November 14, 200421 yr The fact that he can play right field is to me a motivating reason to seriously take a look at the guy. As pointed out above though, we do need a left-handed power bat (or two) and as positions gets filled with righties, the team's options become more and more limited.
November 14, 200421 yr We have pennies vs. Golden Eagle Gold Coins. Put every penny into pitching. Leave the starting position roster alone. Believe Encarnacion will have a great year. And we'll have a crap-shoot. That's the best we can do. But, Pitching comes first for us.
November 14, 200421 yr Guillen is a great value guy with his numbers and salary. He has a rocket arm. The question is can they move Encarnacion? If Enc is still on the roster then the move makes very little sense.
November 14, 200421 yr wow, if we get guillen, keep pavs and lo duca,move enc. we will be way on our way to the best off-season ever. thats an awesome team batting order pierre louie cabs lowell guillen lo duca niner gonzo
November 14, 200421 yr We have pennies vs. Golden Eagle Gold Coins. Put every penny into pitching. Leave the starting position roster alone. Believe Encarnacion will have a great year. And we'll have a crap-shoot. That's the best we can do. But, Pitching comes first for us. 614395[/snapback] Carny has never had a great year so dont expect one. Acquiring Guillen would boost the power of the lineup a lot. Sure it would be nice to acquire a lefty with power but its not a neccesity as we have won a world series without one already. A lineup of Pierre Castillo Cabrera Guillen Lowell LoDuca Conine Gonzalez That looks very potent.
November 14, 200421 yr As long as we can get him in therapy. Guillen v Jack could have some fireworks. Id love to have him otherwise and if Im Beinfest, I get this deal done. Thats great production for his cost. The question is, how the hell does the team get rid of Enc?
November 14, 200421 yr I would do taht deal in a second. And assuming we could get Encarnacion off the books. We would lose a future first baseman, but I still don't have the confidence he is going to be anything real special
November 14, 200421 yr Who came up with an idea almost identical to this one at the end of the season?? :thumbup Guillen is a bargain, his outbursts are worrysome but a risk we have to take at that price. Including the D-Backs could be a slick move by Beinfest if he persuades them to take Encarnacion...they're one of the few that could if the deal were right.
November 14, 200421 yr Just to play devil's advocate here: It has been more than simply implied...it has now been outright said that we're the team with the prospects/players that the D'backs most want in return for Randy Johnson. At the deadline...it was said that whoever got Penny and Murphy out of us would simply have to turn around and trade them to the D'Backs for RJ (they were planning on the Yankees getting them for Contreras and a bullpen arm), now it seems that we're necessary in the Angels pursuit of Randy. So, explain to me why we're going to give up quality of that level when we don't come away with the big prize? I understand money is a huge factor, actually the only factor, but it's going to be twice since July that we are the most important cog in the trade...why not just say "ah, f*** it" trade Lowell and Stokes and Encarnacion to the D'Backs for RJ and take the A's philosophy and see how it works. Our lineup takes a massive hit, admittedly, but we'd truck out the best rotation in the MLB (Johnson, Beckett, Burnett, Willis, "lucky ticket winner...starting pitcher for a day" :cool ). And, just for argument's sake...we'd essentially be doing a contract "wash" by getting Lowell and Enc ($12.5 million owed combined next season) off the books, so we'd still have a small amount to get an average outfield bat and we'd probably go with Aguila or Willingham for a full season in left (I can hear the roar of the crowd already), and then if Pavano declines our offer, we may have even more cash to throw into the lineup if we're serious about increasing payroll minimally in the name of staying competitive. This will never happen, but it's at least an intriguing thought.
November 14, 200421 yr If we can swing this deal... I'd actually reconsider having LoDuca back on this team. If we can make our bullpen a strength this offseason, and have 4 of our 5 starters give us a great chance of winning any game, we're going to take the NL East
November 14, 200421 yr I like Guillens numbers. He would be very useful. We definetely need left handed power. We need that more than anything. Depending on the quality prospects, it sounds good. 614389[/snapback] Guillen bats right handed and is not a switch hitter.
November 14, 200421 yr I like Guillens numbers. He would be very useful. We definetely need left handed power. We need? that more than anything. Depending on the quality prospects, it sounds good. 614389[/snapback] Guillen bats right handed and is not a switch hitter. 614511[/snapback] That's what I was thinking :lol
November 14, 200421 yr The Suckingbacks wanting Stokes doesn't surprise me, they have made tons of bad deals lately.
November 14, 200421 yr So lets get this straight the rumor is: Marlins get: OF Jose Guillen Angels get: LHP Randy Johnson Diamondbacks get: Prospects (1B Jason Stokes among others) With possibly Enc going to one of the teams and the Marlins possibly receiving RHP Brandon Donnelly from what I read in another thread. I'd do it, especially if Stokes is as bad as some of you say. We might not have to give up much because Anaheim, Los Angeles is so desperate to get Johnson, they will give up good prospects. If the Marlins don't want to give up any other prospects I'm sure the Angels will cover us because they won't let the deal go down the drain because of some prospects. After all they would be getting Randy Johnson.
November 14, 200421 yr Um, I think its going to take more than that. I imagine Az would get a combination of prospects from the Marlins and Angels. Cleary the Angels would have to give up more since they are getting RJ and we are getting Guillen. Perhaps even more possible. We give up top notch prospects beyond even Stokes and get Guillen and Donelly(mentioned in an article), RJ goes to Anaheim, and our top prospects go to AZ. That question would be resolved by asking what of our prospect would be going to AZ if we did a straight trade with them. I doubt Stokes would be enough.
November 15, 200421 yr Guillen bats right handed and is not a switch hitter. 614511[/snapback] I'm surprised it took so long for someone to point this out... And I say no way to this trade.... Guillen is one of the worst teammates. We've seen this the past couple of years. The biggest thing you hear from the players, when asked about why this team does so well together, it all goes back to team chemistry... Yes, talent and ability are obiously essential, but team chemistry is underrated.... This guy would be a cancer for that clubhouse.... Leave the cancer symptoms to Beckett and A.J for right now, please.
November 15, 200421 yr Guillen bats right handed and is not a switch hitter. 614511[/snapback] I'm surprised it took so long for someone to point this out... And I say no way to this trade.... Guillen is one of the worst teammates. We've seen this the past couple of years. The biggest thing you hear from the players, when asked about why this team does so well together, it all goes back to team chemistry... Yes, talent and ability are obiously essential, but team chemistry is underrated.... This guy would be a cancer for that clubhouse.... Leave the cancer symptoms to Beckett and A.J for right now, please. 614618[/snapback] I'm sure Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent are cancers, but when you put up results no one cares. Also, if you spin things one way, it's just as easy to say that Guillen has "fire". when you're a winner it's "fire/competitiveness" and when you're a loser it's "clubhouse cancer".
November 15, 200421 yr As long as we can get him in therapy. Guillen v Jack could have some fireworks. 614436[/snapback] We have the solution already! Admin Bowa.
November 15, 200421 yr Guillen bats right handed and is not a switch hitter. 614511[/snapback] I'm surprised it took so long for someone to point this out... And I say no way to this trade.... Guillen is one of the worst teammates. We've seen this the past couple of years. The biggest thing you hear from the players, when asked about why this team does so well together, it all goes back to team chemistry... Yes, talent and ability are obiously essential, but team chemistry is underrated.... This guy would be a cancer for that clubhouse.... Leave the cancer symptoms to Beckett and A.J for right now, please. 614618[/snapback] I'm sure Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent are cancers, but when you put up results no one cares. Also, if you spin things one way, it's just as easy to say that Guillen has "fire". when you're a winner it's "fire/competitiveness" and when you're a loser it's "clubhouse cancer". 614621[/snapback] Fritz you are absolutely correct. The Marlins should acquire Guillen because he is good ballplayer. Forget about this "clubhouse cancer" rant.
November 15, 200421 yr I'm sure Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent are cancers, but when you put up results no one cares. Also, if you spin things one way, it's just as easy to say that Guillen has "fire". when you're a winner it's "fire/competitiveness" and when you're a loser it's "clubhouse cancer". 614621[/snapback] Dude, it's one thing to compare someone's fire when they're just pumped... But Guillen is a friggin baby. What is that crap, throwing a fit because they're pulling you for a pinch runner?? And that's just one of his little temper tantrums..... He's not a team player and doesn't deserve to be in this clubhouse... For you guys, you don't give a sh** because you don't have to be with him every day... Ask any player in that clubhouse, and I guarantee you, they don't want him....
November 15, 200421 yr I'm sure Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent are cancers, but when you put up results no one cares. Also, if you spin things one way, it's just as easy to say that Guillen has "fire". when you're a winner it's "fire/competitiveness" and when you're a loser it's "clubhouse cancer". 614621[/snapback] Dude, it's one thing to compare someone's fire when they're just pumped... But Guillen is a friggin baby. What is that crap, throwing a fit because they're pulling you for a pinch runner?? And that's just one of his little temper tantrums..... He's not a team player and doesn't deserve to be in this clubhouse... For you guys, you don't give a sh** because you don't have to be with him every day... Ask any player in that clubhouse, and I guarantee you, they don't want him.... 614629[/snapback] And the fact that he's a team cancer is going to somehow affect how he hits when he is up at the plate, or how Miguel Cabrera fields a pop up or how Pierre steals a base or how Luis turns a double play or how Guillen saves a run from scoring at the plate? The Giants have won with a guy that has his own wing in their locker room, and who's been in the tabloids for domestic abuse, racially insensitive comments, fighting with teammates, his lack of hustle, and steriods and yet despite all that they scored the second most runs of any team in the NL with a mediocre lineup with the execption of Bonds. Pudge wasn't all that liked in Texas, Sheffield, Drew, Rolen, Pedro, Manny they've all faced the whole team cancer stigma and yet they all contributed greatly to the success of their ballclubs this season.
November 15, 200421 yr I'm sure Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent are cancers, but when you put up results no one cares. Also, if you spin things one way, it's just as easy to say that Guillen has "fire". when you're a winner it's "fire/competitiveness" and when you're a loser it's "clubhouse cancer". 614621[/snapback] Dude, it's one thing to compare someone's fire when they're just pumped... But Guillen is a friggin baby. What is that crap, throwing a fit because they're pulling you for a pinch runner?? And that's just one of his little temper tantrums..... He's not a team player and doesn't deserve to be in this clubhouse... For you guys, you don't give a sh** because you don't have to be with him every day... Ask any player in that clubhouse, and I guarantee you, they don't want him.... 614629[/snapback] And the fact that he's a team cancer is going to somehow affect how he hits when he is up at the plate, or how Miguel Cabrera fields a pop up or how Pierre steals a base or how Luis turns a double play or how Guillen saves a run from scoring at the plate? The Giants have won with a guy that has his own wing in their locker room, and who's been in the tabloids for domestic abuse, racially insensitive comments, fighting with teammates, his lack of hustle, and steriods and yet despite all that they scored the second most runs of any team in the NL with a mediocre lineup with the execption of Bonds. Pudge wasn't all that liked in Texas, Sheffield, Drew, Rolen, Pedro, Manny they've all faced the whole team cancer stigma and yet they all contributed greatly to the success of their ballclubs this season. 614670[/snapback] :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy Winning changes all opinions and brings together a team.
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