Would you trade Encarnacion ($4.5M) for Orioles slugger Jay Gibbons ($3M)? It's an even trade. Both hyped sluggers. One with legs and an attitude, one with an ugly mug and better contact hitting. Certainly it's a better option than having to give up a prospect or the rights to LoDuca for someone to take Enc's contract. That $1.5M could go a long way to improving the backend of the rotation, bench and bullpen.

Easy tiger. You don't need to say it twice... I didn't mean to strike a nerve with the whole Nirvana fan club thing.

 

As for my logic, feel bad for me cause I don't see the flaw. If Barry Bonds wasn't the type of player he is, who's to say he'd have the same attitude. The reason I let Barry get away with the things he says/does is because he's the greatest player of at least, our generation. He's earned that respect. If you were the best player in baseball and people always critized you and questioned your ability, you'd have a chip on your shoulder too.

 

Guillen hasn't earned anything yet. He's only had a couple of years with good numbers.... Until he proves himself like a player of Bonds caliber, he needs to shut his cakehole and do whatever the team needs of him.

Easy tiger. You don't need to say it twice... I didn't mean to strike a nerve with the whole Nirvana fan club thing.

 

As for my logic, feel bad for me cause I don't see the flaw. If Barry Bonds wasn't the type of player he is, who's to say he'd have the same attitude. The reason I let Barry get away with the things he says/does is because he's the greatest player of at least, our generation. He's earned that respect. If you were the best player in baseball and people always critized you and questioned your ability, you'd have a chip on your shoulder too.

 

Guillen hasn't earned anything yet. He's only had a couple of years with good numbers.... Until he proves himself like a player of Bonds caliber, he needs to shut his cakehole and do whatever the team needs of him.

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You didn't hit a nerve. The first time I hit "add reply" it said it couldn't find the web page, so I did it again. Damn computer.

 

Your second two paragraphs are funny. The argument was over if Bonds was a better teammate than Guillen, not who's a better player. Of course Bonds has earned the right to be a prick. Does that make it better? You act like Guillen is a scrub player. He'd easily be the second best hitter on the Giants had he been on their team last year. Would that have "earned" him the right to be a prick? It allowed Kent to be one.

 

This line killed me, "If Barry Bonds wasn't the type of player he is, who's to say he'd have the same attitude. " Are you kidding me?!!!! If Guillen wasn't the player he is, wh's to say he'd have the same attitude? You can say that about every prick in baseball. If a player was only good enough to be the last man on the bench, he'd be cut from any team if he acted like Bonds or Guillen. What is your point? That statement makes no sense in the context of the discussion comparing Bonds and Guillen.

 

I'm in awe of that statement. :o

Of course you are in awe....

Would you trade Encarnacion ($4.5M) for Orioles slugger Jay Gibbons ($3M)? It's an even trade. Both hyped sluggers. One with legs and an attitude, one with an ugly mug and better contact hitting. Certainly it's a better option than having to give up a prospect or the rights to LoDuca for someone to take Enc's contract. That $1.5M could go a long way to improving the backend of the rotation, bench and bullpen.

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In 2003 I really thought Gibbons was a good fit for the Fish, BUT, that said Jay appears to be chronically injury-prone, to the point where there is some question Baltimore whether he'll be offered arbitration or non-tendered, or that perhaps he'll be offered a one year contract for less than he made in 2004. Afterall, he played in less than 100 games last season and didn't hit .250.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that Encarnacion may be our Sammy Sosa in that we'll be saddled with him for 2005. Jack will get the most he can out of the guy. The only way the Marlins will be able to trade him will be if he comes into spring training and tears the cover off the ball and another team finds themselves in the position that they desperately (enough to take the gamble he's totally healed from surgery) needs a right or centerfielder of his caliber. He is afterall, a terrific defensive player and certainly contributed throughoutmost of 2003.

 

At least through the winter it wouldn;t surprise me if he remained a Fish.

I'm ok keeping Encarnacion if we have to... He drove in 94 RBI's in 2003 and is a good defensive right fielder. This past year, it was a known fact he was hurt.... I wouldn't be too upset if he was our Opening Day right fielder....

 

The Marlins need to shore up their bullpen and they'll be alright.

Any move that guarantees that we will get rid of Encarnacion would make me happy.

To Cobaincola:

 

Fact is...Guillen is not wanted by any team, regardless of his talent.. He's that much of an ass.

 

All you know about Barry is what you read. And all the media writes is the bad stuff.... You don't know anything about him.

 

I'm with Flamarlins3... I don't want to turn this into who's a bigger jackass... however, you keep on comparing Guillen to Bonds, and I don't think anyone will take you seriously.

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PWNED!!

 

I'd accept the deal!

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Admin should look into having a kiddy MarlinsBaseball.com site.

Would you trade Encarnacion ($4.5M) for Orioles slugger Jay Gibbons ($3M)? It's an even trade. Both hyped sluggers. One with legs and an attitude, one with an ugly mug and better contact hitting. Certainly it's a better option than having to give up a prospect or the rights to LoDuca for someone to take Enc's contract. That $1.5M could go a long way to improving the backend of the rotation, bench and bullpen.

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Definitely, Gibbons atleast would be a bit more movable, he has power hitting potential and his production even if he doesn't post more than 20 homers wouldn't tail off too much from that of Encarnacion if at all.

 

1.5 million could land us a good bullpen arm and solidify the bench.

I haven't contradicted myself at all...

 

And why are you quoting me twice??

 

As for Guillen, I'm not going by the media at all... Pay attention, dude... I'm going by the fact that he's been cut by so many teams and nobody wants him.

 

You are quite the character.

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He was cut?

 

I could have sworn he was traded from the Reds because they had a packed outfield and despite the big numbers he was putting up they were going to make him their 4th outfielder. He demanded a trade, understandably and was given one for Aaron Harang and two minor league pitchers.

 

Didn't hear much complaining in Oakland.

 

Then Oakland, being the big supporters of OBP and being a small-market team didn't resign him and he was signed as a FA by the Angels...

 

I think I gave you too much credit when I said you sift through media presses to get your dirt on Guillen, looks like you formulated all your opinions on him, including those concerning his departure from previous clubs, from just this season...

 

He's not a great guy, but he does what he needs to do, he's a great player and Encarnacion isn't exactly all that much more of a team player.

 

Typical Bonds homer resorts to saying that Bonds has earned being a jackazz. You are messing the point...Bonds is a great player and they win spite of his persona because when he's at the plate all is forgiven so long as he hits a homerun or gets on base. Guillen would be a tremendous pickup for a Fish at a bargain rate, when he's up at bat he'll deliver a lot more than Enc and he probably would have dived for that ball that Enc nonchalantly decided not to go after. I also guarantee that he won't trip Castillo while Luis turns a DP and that he won't grab Gonzo's ass while Gonzo is making a routine throw to first. I'll even go fruther and guarantee the guy won't read a book while fielding a pop fly or steal Jack's cigars.

All I have to say is:

 

Bring Guillen to Miami!

 

I will surely attend more game this year than I orinally plan if Fish acquire Guillen.

I'm ok keeping Encarnacion if we have to... He drove in 94 RBI's in 2003 and is a good defensive right fielder. This past year, it was a known fact he was hurt.... I wouldn't be too upset if he was our Opening Day right fielder....

 

The Marlins need to shore up their bullpen and they'll be alright.

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RBIs are not a good way to indicate talent. Enc sucks bud.

To Cobaincola:

 

Fact is...Guillen is not wanted by any team, regardless of his talent.. He's that much of an ass.

 

All you know about Barry is what you read. And all the media writes is the bad stuff.... You don't know anything about him.

 

I'm with Flamarlins3... I don't want to turn this into who's a bigger jackass... however, you keep on comparing Guillen to Bonds, and I don't think anyone will take you seriously.

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PWNED!!

 

I'd accept the deal!

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Admin should look into having a kiddy MarlinsBaseball.com site.

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I've thought that as well. :lol

I'm ok keeping Encarnacion if we have to... He drove in 94 RBI's in 2003 and is a good defensive right fielder. This past year, it was a known fact he was hurt.... I wouldn't be too upset if he was our Opening Day right fielder....

 

The Marlins need to shore up their bullpen and they'll be alright.

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RBIs are not a good way to indicate talent. Enc sucks bud.

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RBI's are a good way to measure production.

 

Cobaincola - You're splitting hairs at this point dude. When I said cut, I just meant when a team let him go. Whether that was via trade, release, whatever. I know to be more specific with you from this point on.

 

I'm just gonna end it with this.... All I know is that we're talking about a guy that causes so much controversy with his antics that he was suspended for the last week of the season by a team that was in the playoff hunt. They took it even further and left him off their playoff roster. To suspend a guy who means so much to a team, offensively, really says something about how distracting he can be. Why would a team leave him off the playoff roster if he wasn't such a distraction??That's all I'm trying to say... Bonds does not distract the Giants like Guillen distracts every team he plays for. That's my point and that's all I have to say about that...... Take care. :thumbup

If we can get Randy, why the hell would we trade him to the Angels?? Deal him to the Yankees for Vasquez and make the Yankees pay most of his paycheck and get their good catching prospect in return.? Once we get him, tell Pavano bye bye and go after Magglio or Drew for RF and shake the piggy bank to try to resign Mando, which solves our bullpen problems.? We'd make the DBacks take Enc as part of the deal.

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their catching prospect would be considered crap in any other system, don't fall for the NY newspaper hype.

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you know he was rated has the 4th best catching prospect in baseball last year... right?

 

Did you see the guy's numbers this year? He was totally overmatched at AAA. I'm not ready to declare him a bust, but I wouldn't give much to get him, either.

RBI's are a good way to measure production.

 

 

 

The only thing RBI (not RBIs or RBI's or RBEyes) measures is opportunities and the on-base ability of people hitting ahead of you.

I can't believe anyone would want the guy. Anaheim was fighting for its playoff lives in September and still saw fit to suspend the guy for half the month due to his crappy attitude despite the fact that he was having a productive year. That has to tell you how huge of a jacka$$ that guy is. The Marlins shouldn't give anything more than a bucket of baseballs to get the guy. Anaheim is desperate to get rid of him.

Would you trade Encarnacion ($4.5M) for Orioles slugger Jay Gibbons ($3M)? It's an even trade. Both hyped sluggers. One with legs and an attitude, one with an ugly mug and better contact hitting. Certainly it's a better option than having to give up a prospect or the rights to LoDuca for someone to take Enc's contract. That $1.5M could go a long way to improving the backend of the rotation, bench and bullpen.

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I say we don't sign Lo Duca and not waste 8 million on a medicre hitter. we should use that money to take on the salary of either guillen or soriano who are both much better hitters than Lo Duca and will help the team more. Then use the balance to make a better offer to Pavano or if that isn't possible sign one (possibly two if we get lucky) of the following as a replacement(s): Clement, Perez, Wright. We should still have money left over to add a middle reliever or another starter.

 

I can't see how Paul Lo Duca who is not going to be an impact, run - producing middle of the order guy is worth $8 million, yet many people are so adamently against paying Pavano who had one of the best seasons of any starters $8million. If you wan to talk about only having one good year, look at Lo Duca who is 2 years removed from it now. At least, Pavano is coming off of it.

Here are Enc's numbers from 2003 when he was a 'solid run producer':

 

Runners On: 278 AB .273 AVG .320 OBP .435 SLG

Scoring Position: 164 AB .262 AVG .324 OBP .390 SLG

 

Let me translate those for you.. Not good. .270 was his overall average so he didn't 'step up his game'. He was just lucky, well, not 'lucky', he should be grateful he had the likes of Derrek Lee, Mike Lowell and Miguel Cabrera, all adept at getting on base, batting ahead of him.

Would you trade Encarnacion ($4.5M) for Orioles slugger Jay Gibbons ($3M)? It's an even trade. Both hyped sluggers. One with legs and an attitude, one with an ugly mug and better contact hitting. Certainly it's a better option than having to give up a prospect or the rights to LoDuca for someone to take Enc's contract. That $1.5M could go a long way to improving the backend of the rotation, bench and bullpen.

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I say we don't sign Lo Duca and not waste 8 million on a medicre hitter. we should use that money to take on the salary of either guillen or soriano who are both much better hitters than Lo Duca and will help the team more. Then use the balance to make a better offer to Pavano or if that isn't possible sign one (possibly two if we get lucky) of the following as a replacement(s): Clement, Perez, Wright. We should still have money left over to add a middle reliever or another starter.

 

I can't see how Paul Lo Duca who is not going to be an impact, run - producing middle of the order guy is worth $8 million, yet many people are so adamently against paying Pavano who had one of the best seasons of any starters $8million. If you wan to talk about only having one good year, look at Lo Duca who is 2 years removed from it now. At least, Pavano is coming off of it.

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Where are you getting $8 million from? I agree we shouldn't spend a lot of money on him but the highest I've heard his arbitration #'s could go to his $6 million at the very most.

Yeah... the highest projected figure for LoDuca I've read is $7M.

 

 

I don't want to talk about LoDuca. Not another thread. But it's nice to see that you are willing to let more than one player leave a 3rd-place club.