looking back at it now, that would of been the better choice of course, obviously we couldnt of known the out come of the season and pavano's free agency demands. but despite all that, penny should have stayed either way IMHO.

he's a promising young pitcher. and we began to see him mature in 04, and it showed. and then theres pavano who can very well be yet another one year wonder.

I don't know if the Dodgers would have taken Pavano because it was the final year of his contract.

The Diamondbacks wanted Penny. The Dodgers planned to turn Penny and Murphy into Randy Johnson. I think the Dodgers also wanted Penny because if they couldn't get Johnson they wanted to add a power pitcher for the postseason. They didn't wanted a finesse pitcher like Pavano.

We should've at least waited till the offseason to trade Penny. He'll make a good $6-7 million next season so it's not like he'll be real cheap, but at least we would've had more leverage. Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc.

Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc

 

How the hell is Paul LoDuca overpriced he made 4 million last year and he was an all star and this year he probably will only get 7-9 million. Ur an idiot farmer_fran

good job there pointing out that loduca is overpayed :thumbup

Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc

 

How the hell is Paul LoDuca overpriced he made 4 million last year and he was an all star and this year he probably will only get 7-9 million. Ur an idiot farmer_fran

good job there pointing out that loduca is overpayed :thumbup

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wow

Poor Mike Piazza and Sean Casey

Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc

 

How the hell is Paul LoDuca overpriced he made 4 million last year and he was an all star and this year he probably will only get 7-9 million. Ur an idiot farmer_fran

good job there pointing out that loduca is overpayed :thumbup

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hahahaha

 

Lo Duca isnt overpaid? please.

Suuuuuuuuuure you say that know, but you loved having Pavs last year.

No way we were going to keep Penny this off-seaason.

 

We now have a first rate catcher to fill a hole where we were absolutely hemorrhaging.

 

It was a move needed at the time, and really helped turn the season around.

We should've at least waited till the offseason to trade Penny. He'll make a good $6-7 million next season so it's not like he'll be real cheap, but at least we would've had more leverage. Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc.

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LoDuca may be overpriced, be he certainly is not under productive.

We should've at least waited till the offseason to trade Penny.? He'll make a good $6-7 million next season so it's not like he'll be real cheap, but at least we would've had more leverage.? Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc.

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LoDuca may be overpriced, be he certainly is not under productive.

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He's middle of the pack as far as catchers go.

We should've at least waited till the offseason to trade Penny. He'll make a good $6-7 million next season so it's not like he'll be real cheap, but at least we would've had more leverage. Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc.

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LoDuca may be overpriced, be he certainly is not under productive.

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He's middle of the pack as far as catchers go.

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Defensively, yes. Offensively he's one of the best in the league.

We should've at least waited till the offseason to trade Penny.? He'll make a good $6-7 million next season so it's not like he'll be real cheap, but at least we would've had more leverage.? Now we're stuck with two overpriced-underproductive players in Lo Duca and Enc.

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LoDuca may be overpriced, be he certainly is not under productive.

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He's middle of the pack as far as catchers go.

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He lead all NL catchers in RBI, was only behind Kendall, Estrada and Barrett for batting average, and poses the ability to bat 2/3, 5/6 in the lineup, not a lot of catchers can do that.

 

I know you're a Willingham fan, but stop hating on Lo Duca so damn much, you have to understand that as a catcher he puts up good numbers and most importantly, he's respected by the pitching staff. Say what you want about this being stupid, but the fact that our pitchers barely shook off Pudge and Lo Duca is invaluable...having confidence in your catcher is the #1 most important thing for a pitcher (behind having good-stuff, which is out of anyone's control except God, lol).

He lead all NL catchers in RBI

:banghead

 

I could care less if he had 300 rbis. It's a meaningless stat for evaluating one players' ability. Lo Duca has below average power, and gets on base at an above average rate. That makes him average. He's not a 3 hole hitter. He's a #2 hitter or a #7 or 8 hitter in a good lineup.

Hey, he did hit 25 HRs a few years ago. Maybe he'll repeat that at age 32.

 

He may have been the 'heart' and 'soul' of the Dodger franchise and was looked up to by Dodger pitchers. And he may have been looked up to by Marlins pitchers, players, coaches and fans alike for the simply fact that he was to play the role as 'savior.' In which he failed, but I guess that was the fault of the hurricanes, Kensing and Manzanillo, and an injury to his pinky finger, right? Forget that he was terrible with the Marlins, killing many a rallies with his OMGNUNEZ-like ability to ground into double plays. Nope, he's got the intangibles and the injury-aided All-Star appearances, and supposably that's worth a multi-year deal at Armando Benitez-money.

 

Would you rather have LoDuca, a .280/.350/.500 outfielder or Benitez? And no, you can't have all three plus Pavano, Encarnacion and every other member of the third place team in 2004's NL East.

Good idea lets get rid of lo duca and go back to the redmond, treanor, willingham combo thatdid so well for us last year. Willingham has not earned a starting spot, when he was here he was a strike out machine, he needs to fine tune his game at the big league level and work on his defense. Lo Duca is one of the top 3 catchers in the NL offensively. Stop with the stats from last year and that garbage. How well does he call games? Is it important that Burnett likes throwing to him? Is it important that hes a clubhouse leader, and plays hard everyday? And yes he will play better after his finger heals. Stats do not completely define the value a player has to his team, and his offensive stats are pretty good for a catcher. Theres no better alternative at C, loduca stays

It's about paying for talent. oDuca is at best the 10th best catcher in the major leagues. Is a .280/.335/.400 catcher worth $6 million? Is a 32-year old catcher, who has shown a strong tendency to slow down during the year despite how many times you play him at 1B or LF to keep him fresh (and relieve your team of his passed balls), deserving of a multi-year deal? Money for LoDuca could be better spent on a batter who CAN hit 25 HRs next year and maybe get on base more than 33% of the time. Sure, we'd lose the 'intangibles', but if we re-sign Lenny, Mordy, Redmond and keep Conine, Lowell and Willis wouldn't there be enough 'intangibles' in the clubhouse?

It's also about using talent. Willingham is our best major-league ready hitter in the minors. He outhit and outslugged everyone in the Marlins organization and in the pitcher-dominant Southern League. He deserves the chance.

Willingham was brought up and did not perform well, the least thing we need is to start the year with another gamble at catcher. Willingham is not major league ready, not as an everyday starter, and not as catcher

The raggin on Lo Duca is really uncalled for. As others mentioned, the abyss of crapiness formally known as Redmond, Willingham & Castro was terrible. Lo Duca is a great asset to have on this team.

Thats exactly it no one is saying that loduca is the best catcher in the game or anything of the sort. But he is defintely above average offensively for a catcher and is better than the alternative

If they do part ways with LoDuca, they should have a much better alternative. Redmond doesn't seem durable as an everyday player and Treanor didn't do much offensively other than the heroics in the White Sox game. As for Willingham, haven't seen enough of him other than a little last season and ST. They should bring in a solid veteran to ST if they get rid of LoDuca, hopefully an upgrade over the Redmond and the rest, or at least someone to compete in ST for the job.

Hey, he did hit 25 HRs a few years ago. Maybe he'll repeat that at age 32.

 

He may have been the 'heart' and 'soul' of the Dodger franchise and was looked up to by Dodger pitchers. And he may have been looked up to by Marlins pitchers, players, coaches and fans alike for the simply fact that he was to play the role as 'savior.' In which he failed, but I guess that was the fault of the hurricanes, Kensing and Manzanillo, and an injury to his pinky finger, right? Forget that he was terrible with the Marlins, killing many a rallies with his OMGNUNEZ-like ability to ground into double plays. Nope, he's got the intangibles and the injury-aided All-Star appearances, and supposably that's worth a multi-year deal at Armando Benitez-money.

 

Would you rather have LoDuca, a .280/.350/.500 outfielder or Benitez? And no, you can't have all three plus Pavano, Encarnacion and every other member of the third place team in 2004's NL East.

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I'd argue that we'd be able to have two of the three because Pavano's gone so now his money is allotted to one of the positions along with the extra cash from the slight pay-roll increase, but I'll play along.

 

I'd rather have Lo Duca over the outfielder and over Benitez (but we have to do something to our bullpen). Here's why: we already gave Redmond/Treanor/Castro a chance to do something last year, and it blew up in our faces. Castro was ten times of a more "sure thing" as a catcher than anything we have in the organization.

 

This Willingham thing is getting a little absurd. When Castro was given the job, at least he was on the big league club for a few season so he was comfortable with his surroundings. The catcher is the "leader" of the team. Devalue that all you want to, but if you have a rookie like Willingham stepping into the diva pitching staff we have here, that's a disaster in the making. At least Lo Duca has been around (and dealt with Kevin Brown) so he knows a thing or two about getting his pitchers to perform, and that's the most important job of a catcher.

I know I'm going to seem like an anal-retentive jerk, but I'm willing to risk it. . . .

 

Could you please change the title of this thread to:

 

Should HAVE kept Penny ... ?

 

I don't know when and where people started substituting "should of" for "should've" but this particular grammar mistake borders on the illiterate and I've seen it more often than I'd like to count. So, if just one person reads this and stops using "should of" for "should've," then I'm glad to carry the label "anal retentive jerk."

I'm trying to figure out who RFerry DOES like.

 

He hates LoDuca, the same with Len Kasper (although he admits he's seen little of his work), the list is almost endless.

 

RFerry's entitled to his opinion to be sure but a Paul LoDuca or a Len Kasper didn't get to where they are in their respective jobs by being incompetent or even mediocre. They are both true professionals who at least deserve to be respected for the work they do. Just because there may be better catchers out there than LoDuca that doesn't mean he's bad at his job or a failure.

 

As for Penny and Pavano I'd make the case BOTH would probably be unsignable (for $$$ reasons) in 2005 and by trading Penny when we did, even if you want to discount LoDuca (which I for one don't), we still wound up with Mota as compensation and we'll see what happens with Encarnacion when he's healed. All in all I still believe in the trade (although I was disppointed to see such a prospect as Choi leave) and I think we have to see how 2005 plays out before we can honestly evaluate it.