Something tells me Pierre had the green light taken away from him.

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Chicken/egg?

 

Jack may be an throw-back manager, but he was never too admired with the running game. I think Pierre's success rate and injury early this season has made (or someone forcing) him to be more cautious.

 

JP can bulls**t a lot of hits. He's broken out of slumps with bunt hits, pokes into left field and other stuff. I don't know if the league as caught up to him, but I'd like to see him get back on track. Because his market value is pretty high - surpassing his value on this team IMO - when he's on his game.

Lets play fantasy baseball here,

 

the Dodgers do want Lowell, but at what price? and would the Marlins take prospects over ML players?

 

here's a thought move Pierre and Lowell for Andy LaRoche(Single A) or Joel Guzman(AA)(Dodgers top prospect and both are 3B), Milton Bradley and a pitcher( maybe Wilson Alvarez? just name). this would be the main parts of the trade but others would be included. Pierre(3.7 million) and Bradley(2.5 million) are both 27, both are 5yr vets, and both are CF

 

The Dodgers are going to shake things up in the next couple of weeks if things don't change. Jim Tracey job is on the hot seat, and the Dodgers will be lookin to move things around.

 

From a PR move this would be a horrible move for the Fish, but from a baseball move it makes sense.You would clear 9 million dollar of salaries of your roster and improve your club now and in the future. What can you do with that extra money AJ contrat ext.

 

Of course this is just fantasy baseball

My biggest issue with JP is he strikes out more than anyone should. It seems everytime he comes up to lead-off he K's.

My God, if we had Andy LaRoche, we'd be so sick, but I doubt the Dodgers would be all that willing to unload him.

I know what you're saying TS but (putting aside the PR implications which would be horrible) something says to me Mike Lowell is one guy you want in the playoffs and as such I wouldn't move him under almost any circumstances, and certainly not for prospects.

 

After the season is over, now that's a different story.

 

I believe next year will see a flurry of rookies populating the 25 man roster and Lowell's importance will be less significant than it is this season.

 

The off-season is also an easier time to transition from Lowell to Cabrera at third politically. You have to believe if Mike has a good playoffs (and dare I say, World Series ) his value will be significant. But to mess with the team chemistry of the team now or at the break is for me, too much of a risk to take, with so much on the line.

It's funny....Leiter's biggest problem this year is mental- he's putting too much pressure on himself because of his slump. So WE suggest that he better have a good game today OR ELSE, which puts MORE pressure on him.

 

I know that something is wrong and we can't keep him in the rotation if he keeps pitching like this, but I just hope Leiter doesn't put more undue pressure on himself today.

My God, if we had Andy LaRoche, we'd be so sick, but I doubt the Dodgers would be all that willing to unload him.

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He could had b/c I believe the Dodgers will move him or Guzman to get a bat. Guzman(6'6 245lbs) has the higher potential being one of the top prospects not just in the Dodgers system but in all of baseball going into the start of the season. Both are 3B too

I know what you're saying TS but (putting aside the PR implications which would be horrible) something says to me Mike Lowell is one guy you want in the playoffs and as such I wouldn't move him under almost any circumstances, and certainly not for prospects.

 

After the season is over, now that's a different story.

 

I believe next year will see a flurry of rookies populating the 25 man roster and Lowell's importance will be less significant than it is this season.

 

The off-season is also an easier time to transition from Lowell to Cabrera at third politically. You have to believe if Mike has a good playoffs (and dare I say, World Series ) his value will be significant. But to mess with the team chemistry of the team now or at the break is for me, too much of a risk to take, with so much on the line.

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I also don't want to mess with team chemistry, but I don't see this team taken this division the way its currently built...Wild-Card team? maybe but the way teams in this division are going to keep beating each other up. The WC could come out of the west.

 

Its a risk of course but has this team run its course the way its built currently

I know what you're saying TS but (putting aside the PR implications which would be horrible) something says to me Mike Lowell is one guy you want in the playoffs and as such I wouldn't move him under almost any circumstances, and certainly not for prospects.

 

After the season is over, now that's a different story.

 

I believe next year will see a flurry of rookies populating the 25 man roster and Lowell's importance will be less significant than it is this season.

 

The off-season is also an easier time to transition from Lowell to Cabrera at third politically. You have to believe if Mike has a good playoffs (and dare I say, World Series ) his value will be significant. But to mess with the team chemistry of the team now or at the break is for me, too much of a risk to take, with so much on the line.

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I also don't want to mess with team chemistry, but I don't see this team taken this division the way its currently built...Wild-Card team? maybe but the way teams in this division are going to keep beating each other up. The WC could come out of the west.

 

Its a risk of course but has this team run its course the way its built currently

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I look at this team and I believe they are destined for the playoffs.

 

Yes, they need some tweaking, but there isn't one of the starting eight that I believe "has to be" upgraded. For me, we need another 5th/6th starter/long relief guy, and I'm not sure Dillon stays if a better bench player becomes available. Riedling and Smith's positions on the active roster will certainly be examined, and perhaps Nate Bump's as well.

 

But as long as Lenny Harris keeps up his torrid pinch-hitting, he's not going anywhere. Treanor's doing a terrific job as LoDuca's backup, and you really have to ask yourself if you want to trade Jeff "yeah, I'm hitting .300" Conine who can fill in at a handful of positions. And it goes without saying Damion Easley won't be moved unless what's being offered is so compelling that you just can't say no.

 

Personally, if the weather doesn't deal the Fish a bad hand, I believe the Marlins will have wrapped up the NL East before their final home three-game series with the Braves.

 

Go Fish !

Some of these ideas aren't bad...but PR def would suffer. Fans go nuts everytime JP is announced to bat. He could be being cautious but if things continue I think he'll test himself a little more. Lieter is going to be hit/miss all season...we definetly need to upgrade if possible but aren't in huge trouble if we can't. When Valdez comes back it might not be a bad idea to get Al into the pen as a long reliever is Valdez can be effective. Moehler is outstanding as a 5th starter and proven to be a very good surprise for the Fish this year. Lowell will come around, he's pushing hard and it shows. He just needs to get a couple of base hits and relax and he'll be out of it. He gets one or two and then goes 0-6 and starts pressing again, he can't get into a rhythm but he will eventually. Either way, I don't think we should do anything until the trade dealine nears unless JP, Al, and Mike are struggling even worse. We need to hold on to JP especially if Luis is going to keep having trouble w/ the hip. With the way we're playing now we're still in/tied for 1st. The Braves are having their own troubles, Mets have no bullpen, and Philly is inconsistent. The Fish will be fine! :cool

The team is a win-now situation and should be wise to add to this team, but leaving enough role players for the Cabrera-Castillo-Delgado-Beckett-Willis teams in the near future. I think that answers your 'fantasy baseball' question. In addition, we have a large surplus of talent coming into the system from this draft. Not all of them will make the majors, but a good number of them will be regarded as top prospects and fetch a decent price on future trade markets. Room needs to made for them on the minor league circuits.

Right now , we are running with the Braves, tied for first, but eventually the Braves are probably gonna pull ahead. Why? The track record of division titles for them...No matter what their problems are the Braves always find a way to win and pull ahead of this division... This could be the year the Marlins sit at the top, but I think this team needs a bit more firepower to take the NL East. If no trades are soon, then I think we need to put in the players that are not slumping, even if that means Mikey or JP sit a little more...Easley has been hitting better than Mike and he deserves to get more ABs...Hell, I'd like to see Dillon or get Aguila back up and give him some consistent ABs...If someone isn't contributing, that person needs to sit for a spell...Marlins have a great shot at NL East Champs this year, no room for screwing around with inconsistency...For once, I'd like to see the Fish 10 games ahead of everyone

Let's trade the heart and soul of this team... good idea!

 

It's called a slump! You guys are talking crazy.

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Until the next heart and soul emerges. We already have 4 guys that fit that role. How many do we need? 5 if you count Willis, which I should've. Trade Lowell or Pierre. I don't care, but rather move Lowell to move Cabs to 3B.

My dear friend Mr. Shamster, I don't think there's a Marlins fan alive who wouldn't like to see Miguel Cabrera at third, including me. All I'm arguing (in the philosophical sense) is that when viewed in a more global sense, taking into account the effects both on the field and perhaps more importantly off, the risk is too great, especially during the season.

 

Most people seem to want to believe that the Fish would do better without Lowell at third. But what happens if they don't? What happens when the media landslide hits and ticket sales fall off and the stadium plans derail because we jettisoned "one of our own" (local boy makes good...all that stuff) and we're in third place?

 

I'm not against moving Mike Lowell even if he overcomes his slump and starts hitting .300 consistently and banging the ball out of the park with the regularity we were accustomed to until this season. I just believe the time to do it is in the off-season when the opportunity to consider such a move can be taken in its totality.

 

And as for Pierre, more or less, I believe the same is true. Pierre is at fault as much as he's a victim of his previous success. Pitchers are more aware, keep him closer to first, 2nd basemen/shortstops regularly position themselves to block second base when he's stealing than in seasons previous, forcing him to slide away from the bag (and hence adding that all important split second to his time).

 

I'd like to see Pierre going into 2nd feet first (as in "here pal, taste my cleats") a few times to force guys off the bag, but in today's modern version of baseball (where players respect the right of other players to earn a living and don't look to cause injury because it could happen to them, in effect live and let live) it isn't going to happen.

 

So in conclusion, as fans we have to accept, at least for 2005, we're more or less stuck with the guys we have and need to concentrate our efforts to improve the team through pitching and the bench.

 

If you or others disagree, I'll understand why, but that's my point of view. And if I'm proved wrong (one or both are traded, and I do believe if the Marlins move one, they'll bite the bullet and move both) and the team performs well and things go well for attendance and stadium plans, I'll be the first one to say my analysis of the situation was incorrect.

 

Until then I'm all for keeping both players.

Marlins2003 I respect your opinion and its refreshing to see someone make there point so well thought out on a messageboard...BUT, I respectfully disagree

 

Lowell or Pierre must be move to jump start this offense that appears to be going nowhere with RISP. And IMO will not win this division

 

1 its easier to easy a fanbase outrage over trading there goldenboy during the season b/c the results will come right away. During the offseason the team might be a little nervous trading a player such as Lowell with season-tix renewal being mail out. Ditto with Pierre.

 

2. The team chemistry is what worries me, but this team has been together for awhile I believe there players understand the business part of the game, and why they are moving this players(if it happens). They have teamates such as Penny, Pavano, etc. leave for different reason, so I don't believe team chemistry will be effected

 

3. Lowell value is a mystery b/c everybody think he's going to come out this slump, BUT what if he doesn't his value will drop really fast. Then your stuck with an 8 million dollar player.

 

In Beinfest I trust to make the right moves now and for the future

I can't believe you guys are talking about trading Lowell and getting rid of Pierre. These two guys have been the heart of the Marlins for the pasts seasons and just because they are in a slump, already want to trade. Plus its not like we are in last place in the division. We are in first place with these guys in slumps, I say when they get it going we are running away with the division. You have no faith :thumbdown

I can't believe you guys are talking about trading Lowell and getting rid of Pierre. These two guys have been the heart of the Marlins for the pasts seasons and just because they are in a slump, already want to trade. Plus its not like we are in last place in the division. We are in first place with these guys in slumps, I say when they get it going we are running away with the division. You have no faith :thumbdown

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we are lucky to be in 1st place, and won't be for long if we continue to play like this. Both Lowell and JP are totally lost at the plate.

I can't believe you guys are talking about trading Lowell and getting rid of Pierre. These two guys have been the heart of the Marlins for the pasts seasons and just because they are in a slump, already want to trade. Plus its not like we are in last place in the division. We are in first place with these guys in slumps, I say when they get it going we are running away with the division. You have no faith :thumbdown

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this team appears to have run its course the way its currently built

Hello I'm new, I like to say there are some great points being made on this messageboard.

Let's trade the heart and soul of this team... good idea!

 

It's called a slump! You guys are talking crazy.

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He is not the same anymore.

 

He can't steal bases.His speed in the outfield has diminish and his throwing arm always been a problem.

Trade JP??? Some of you people are smoking crack. If we trade anyone, it should be Leiter and Bump for a solid MRP.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind trading Delgado for a speedy switch-hitting left fielder. Move Cabrera to 3rd and put Conine at 1st. Give Lowell some bench time until he re-learns the art of hitting.

Trade JP??? Some of you people are smoking crack. If we trade anyone, it should be Leiter and Bump for a solid MRP.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind trading Delgado for a speedy switch-hitting left fielder. Move Cabrera to 3rd and put Conine at 1st. Give Lowell some bench time until he re-learns the art of hitting.

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You tell people they are smocking crack and in the next paragraph say you wouldn't mind trading Delgado. Delgado and Cabrera are by far our two best offensive players. Talk about smoking crack...... :whistle

Trade JP??? Some of you people are smoking crack. If we trade anyone, it should be Leiter and Bump for a solid MRP.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind trading Delgado for a speedy switch-hitting left fielder. Move Cabrera to 3rd and put Conine at 1st. Give Lowell some bench time until he re-learns the art of hitting.

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You tell people they are smocking crack and in the next paragraph say you wouldn't mind trading Delgado. Delgado and Cabrera are by far our two best offensive players. Talk about smoking crack...... :whistle

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agree Carlos is awesome and wait till he learns the league WATCH OUT

Trade JP??? Some of you people are smoking crack. If we trade anyone, it should be Leiter and Bump for a solid MRP.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind trading Delgado for a speedy switch-hitting left fielder. Move Cabrera to 3rd and put Conine at 1st. Give Lowell some bench time until he re-learns the art of hitting.

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Our problems are on offense. Makes no sense to get rid of a premier slugger for some JP-clone who will be just as busted the first time he tweaks a hamstring.

I think the team has been doing decently overall, except for mike lowell he is really hurting the team and its best for him to just go before he does any more damage to this team im so sick of hearing you people complain that he is in a slump, come on give me a break ive never seen a 40+ game slump. We can put cabrera at 3rd and give 1 of our young players a shot to play outfield cause mike lowell is not doing anythin productive for this team :banghead