July 17, 200520 yr For all of the Orioles fans that appeared all of a sudden: Explain to me how this trade benefits the Florida Marlins other than possibly getting rid of Lowell's contract. I wish the Marlins would make the trade with the Red Sox so the people in this city would stop thinking the Os are a playoff caliber team. It would finally put an end to their misery. 859717[/snapback] Why the hate? I'd rather see the O's competing, and making a run at the playoffs than to strengthen the Red Sox now and in the future. Parity works to our benefit if we expect to be in the playoffs ourselves. I don't like the O's offer but they potentially match up better with us as trade partners than the Red Sox, and if they modify their offer, I have no problem with working with them. We have no idea, none, zero, nada, what is really being discussed between the two teams. All we have is press reports and most of them is the same rumor being passed from one sportswriter to another, morfing as it goes. For all we know it's centered around players that haven't even been mentioned.
July 17, 200520 yr what's wrong with kline..i know he's having an off year so far but he's a good pitcher last year his ERA was 1.79 and he's a lefty reliever which is what we need unless you are a fan of matt perisho. I don't see anything wrong with bigbie he's hitting .262 this year which isn't horrible for a 4th outfielder certainly better than damion easley and the past two years his BA has been .280 and .303 certainly nothin wrong with that and he's young. i'm not that big of a julio fan so i don't care much about him being involved in a trade. i would be thrilled to get Melvin Mora but i have doubts about that happening. i would do mora, kline or julio, and bigbie for burnett and lowell and eric reed
July 17, 200520 yr Author I have been hearing sio many versions of what is in the works. It seems there may be a three-way deal in the works including the Padres. AJ, Lowell, Shoppach, Youiklis, Arroyo, Papeldon, Otsuka and Burroughs...not ALL these names. These are just names I heard in a couple of versions. Also heard the Os may have switched Gibbons in for Bigbie and Kline might be included of they have to take Lowell's contract. Don't hold me to this....not sources or anything close....just some names that seem to be floating out there. Now new news on the Sox offer...but if they offered Contreras, Marte and a prospect...that's a solid offer. Also remember the Jays GM said he wants to Marlins to contact him b4 they make a deal. The talk seems to be picking up and Lowell out of the lineup...I think we may be close.
July 17, 200520 yr i like the jays deal better....... i would do the redosox deal only if they were to throw trot nixon in as well...... how bad do they want pitching i mean they clearly have enough offense
July 17, 200520 yr what's wrong with kline..i know he's having an off year so far but he's a good pitcher last year his ERA was 1.79 and he's a lefty reliever which is what we need unless you are a fan of matt perisho. I don't see anything wrong with bigbie he's hitting .262 this year which isn't horrible for a 4th outfielder certainly better than damion easley and the past two years his BA has been .280 and .303 certainly nothin wrong with that and he's young. i'm not that big of a julio fan so i don't care much about him being involved in a trade. i would be thrilled to get Melvin Mora but i have doubts about that happening. i would do mora, kline or julio, and bigbie for burnett and lowell and eric reed 859755[/snapback] WOW. Just wow. That is a very ridiculous post. Why in the hell do you guys think Melvin Mora might be involved? If he was involved the Marlins would have to give up a lot more. The Orioles wouldnt do Burnett for Mora let alone Mora, a reliever, and Bigbie for Burnett and Lowell. You are crazy, whatever you are smoking I want some.
July 17, 200520 yr I look at the Orioles trade this way: It's basically AJ Burnett and maybe Mike Lowell for Penn. Admin Bigbie is horrible and I'd rather have Encarnacion, Conine, Willingham, or Aguila in the outfield over him. Kline and Julio will do nothing other than force me to renew my valium prescription. The Orioles are basically packaging s*** together hoping to get a SP that could possibly lead them to the playoffs. Even if they do get Burnett, I'd say they are still one short. 859729[/snapback] And this post is an uneducated one. Bigbie is horrible? NO. Bigbie is an average outfielder right now with potential to be a good outfielder. Kline has been awful but he was great in the NL and a switch back would improve his numbers for sure. Going to the NL would help Julio as well, I am not a fan of him though, he will never fulfill his potential until he gets some control on his slider and becomes more consistent. If you want to say the Orioles are getting the better end of the deal I would agree with you 100% but I dont think the Marlins are getting screwed in any way, and with Penn in the deal we could be looking back in a few years saying how the Orioles got ripped off or maybe you guys will have a total bust with him who knows. The things I am reading on this board amaze me.
July 17, 200520 yr what's wrong with kline..i know he's having an off year so far but he's a good pitcher last year his ERA was 1.79 and he's a lefty reliever which is what we need unless you are a fan of matt perisho. I don't see anything wrong with bigbie he's hitting .262 this year which isn't horrible for a 4th outfielder certainly better than damion easley and the past two years his BA has been .280 and .303 certainly nothin wrong with that and he's young. i'm not that big of a julio fan so i don't care much about him being involved in a trade. i would be thrilled to get Melvin Mora but i have doubts about that happening. i would do mora, kline or julio, and bigbie for burnett and lowell and eric reed 859755[/snapback] WOW. Just wow. That is a very ridiculous post. Why in the hell do you guys think Melvin Mora might be involved? If he was involved the Marlins would have to give up a lot more. The Orioles wouldnt do Burnett for Mora let alone Mora, a reliever, and Bigbie for Burnett and Lowell. You are crazy, whatever you are smoking I want some. 859766[/snapback] none of the sane posters believe Mora is going anywhere...
July 17, 200520 yr okay Mora is not going anywhere they need mora's ass in the line up....... and Gibbons ya he has pop..... but he will always hit between 250-275 and nothing higher...... and he has yet to fill his potential..... u think he comes to the fish and does that...... ha...... I WANT TROT NIXON we were suppose to get em awhile back......
July 17, 200520 yr what's wrong with kline..i know he's having an off year so far but he's a good pitcher last year his ERA was 1.79 and he's a lefty reliever which is what we need unless you are a fan of matt perisho. I don't see anything wrong with bigbie he's hitting .262 this year which isn't horrible for a 4th outfielder certainly better than damion easley and the past two years his BA has been .280 and .303 certainly nothin wrong with that and he's young. i'm not that big of a julio fan so i don't care much about him being involved in a trade. i would be thrilled to get Melvin Mora but i have doubts about that happening. i would do mora, kline or julio, and bigbie for burnett and lowell and eric reed 859755[/snapback] WOW. Just wow. That is a very ridiculous post. Why in the hell do you guys think Melvin Mora might be involved? If he was involved the Marlins would have to give up a lot more. The Orioles wouldnt do Burnett for Mora let alone Mora, a reliever, and Bigbie for Burnett and Lowell. You are crazy, whatever you are smoking I want some. 859766[/snapback] none of the sane posters believe Mora is going anywhere... 859787[/snapback] Thats a relief....why would someone even mention it!?!?!
July 17, 200520 yr what's wrong with kline..i know he's having an off year so far but he's a good pitcher last year his ERA was 1.79 and he's a lefty reliever which is what we need unless you are a fan of matt perisho. I don't see anything wrong with bigbie he's hitting .262 this year which isn't horrible for a 4th outfielder certainly better than damion easley and the past two years his BA has been .280 and .303 certainly nothin wrong with that and he's young. i'm not that big of a julio fan so i don't care much about him being involved in a trade. i would be thrilled to get Melvin Mora but i have doubts about that happening. i would do mora, kline or julio, and bigbie for burnett and lowell and eric reed 859755[/snapback] WOW. Just wow. That is a very ridiculous post. Why in the hell do you guys think Melvin Mora might be involved? If he was involved the Marlins would have to give up a lot more. The Orioles wouldnt do Burnett for Mora let alone Mora, a reliever, and Bigbie for Burnett and Lowell. You are crazy, whatever you are smoking I want some. 859766[/snapback] none of the sane posters believe Mora is going anywhere... 859787[/snapback] Thats a relief....why would someone even mention it!?!?! 859794[/snapback] just look at some of the posters ages.
July 17, 200520 yr I look at the Orioles trade this way: It's basically AJ Burnett and maybe Mike Lowell for Penn. Admin Bigbie is horrible and I'd rather have Encarnacion, Conine, Willingham, or Aguila in the outfield over him. Kline and Julio will do nothing other than force me to renew my valium prescription. The Orioles are basically packaging s*** together hoping to get a SP that could possibly lead them to the playoffs. Even if they do get Burnett, I'd say they are still one short. 859729[/snapback] And this post is an uneducated one. Bigbie is horrible? NO. Bigbie is an average outfielder right now with potential to be a good outfielder. Kline has been awful but he was great in the NL and a switch back would improve his numbers for sure. Going to the NL would help Julio as well, I am not a fan of him though, he will never fulfill his potential until he gets some control on his slider and becomes more consistent. If you want to say the Orioles are getting the better end of the deal I would agree with you 100% but I dont think the Marlins are getting screwed in any way, and with Penn in the deal we could be looking back in a few years saying how the Orioles got ripped off or maybe you guys will have a total bust with him who knows. The things I am reading on this board amaze me. 859782[/snapback] And Os fans continue to amaze me. Sometimes I'm ashamed to live in Baltimore. There are no guarantees that either Julio and Kline will pitch better in the NL. Now you are just talking out of your ass. Why should the Marlins experiment when they can look elsewhere for relievers that are performing NOW? And Bigbie is worse than all of the Marlins' alternatives (Conine, Encarnacion, Aguila, Willingham when he comes back). 859807[/snapback] Im ashamed you live in Baltimore also because you obviously have no idea what youre talking about and I never said Kline would go back to old form or Julio would be great just said improve. I would say any pitcher would improve going to the NL because THERE IS NO DH. Sometimes they do worse of course but overall the majority do better. Mark Wiley could help Julio also, Julio was at his best when Wiley was here. I would definetly take Encarnacion over Bigbie and Conine MAYBE this year but overall I would take Bigbie due to age and upside.
July 17, 200520 yr Sportsbamer, let me join Maverick in saying please forgive some of the children here (sigh). Obviously Gibbons isn't on steroids, etc. But I also agree with Mav regarding Bigbie, outside of being a lefty bat, I don't see where he helps the Fish. I'd take Gibbons in a heartbeat, I like the way he plays the game, even if he's never going to be an all-star, I think you'd agree that in a choice between the two in an important situation, he's the guy you want up at the plate, not Bigbie.
July 17, 200520 yr I know I am jumping into this thread kind of late, but can someone please tell me why the majority here prefer the Jays deal ??? :blink: Chachin - At best, he is a solid # 3 guy, probably though will always be a back of the rotation starter. Now Hayden Penn has the ceiling, make up and potential to be a # 1 or # 2 starter in this league. Penn's stuff is comparable to Josh Beckett only a slightly lower level, just without the blisters. I know Chachin can help us more right now, but Penn is just more valuable. Period. Julio > League. Both have the same amazing stuff, but Julio has actually been good before. If I told this board we could get Julio in a trade 2 months ago, we would all be salivating. Admin Bigbie > Gabe Cross Bigbie has done it in the majors , has a sweet lefty swing, and if he can stay healthy has .300 every year batting potential. Gabe Cross is at best a midlevel prospect. Certaintly doesn't make my toes tingle. Also add on getting rid of MIkey's contract look, I love Mike like every other true Marlin, but the fact is that he is not very good for even a 2 million dollar a year player, yet alone what we are paying him. We have a great 3B in Cabrera right now, with Hermida able to take over for him. Getting rid of Mikey's contract allows us to reup Agon, Pierre and maybe a FA OF or just resign Enc. So please someone , anyone , tell me why the Jays deal is better ??? I am stumped.
July 17, 200520 yr Sportsbamer, let me join Maverick in saying please forgive some of the children here (sigh). Obviously Gibbons isn't on steroids, etc. 859857[/snapback] Oh please. He isn't? Look at his head. Even most Orioles fans here won't deny it. 859880[/snapback] and what if he is? who cares? as long he produces
July 17, 200520 yr I know I am jumping into this thread kind of late, but can someone please tell me why the majority here prefer the Jays deal ??? :blink: Chachin - At best, he is a solid # 3 guy, probably though will always be a back of the rotation starter. Now Hayden Penn has the ceiling, make up and potential to be a # 1 or # 2 starter in this league. Penn's stuff is comparable to Josh Beckett only a slightly lower level, just without the blisters. I know Chachin can help us more right now, but Penn is just more valuable. Period. Julio > League. Both have the same amazing stuff, but Julio has actually been good before. If I told this board we could get Julio in a trade 2 months ago, we would all be salivating. Admin Bigbie > Gabe Cross Bigbie has done it in the majors , has a sweet lefty swing, and if he can stay healthy has .300 every year batting potential. Gabe Cross is at best a midlevel prospect. Certaintly doesn't make my toes tingle. Also add on getting rid of MIkey's contract look, I love Mike like every other true Marlin, but the fact is that he is not very good for even a 2 million dollar a year player, yet alone what we are paying him. We have a great 3B in Cabrera right now, with Hermida able to take over for him. Getting rid of Mikey's contract allows us to reup Agon, Pierre and maybe a FA OF or just resign Enc. So please someone , anyone , tell me why the Jays deal is better ??? I am stumped. 859891[/snapback] Forget Bigbie and Gross, as fas Im concerned they are throw-ins. Id rather see Aguila or Willingham play over both of them. Ever since Chacin learned the cut fastball early last year, he has been very good everywhere he has went. And so what if he is a #3?... He can atleast help us now, Penn might need another year And why you think Julio is better than League is understandable but League's upside is much greater
July 17, 200520 yr Adressing the cryptic message left by Mr. Juanky dealing with the Red Sox. ESPN radio announcers calling the game today mentioned near the end that during the break a trade was hear around the press box area, they could not confirm it, so no names were released...but it is rumored to deal with Bronson Arroyo. I think its more of a Internet/Radio filler baloney but that is just me. BTW Juanky, you post is being linked on at least three Red Sox boards right now...you have the 'nation' in fits... 859191[/snapback] :lol Juanky :notworthy 859196[/snapback] :mischief Hehe Now this needs to happen so I can become a Red Sox Nation hero
July 17, 200520 yr I know I am jumping into this thread kind of late, but can someone please tell me why the majority here prefer the Jays deal ??? :blink: Chachin - At best, he is a solid # 3 guy, probably though will always be a back of the rotation starter. Now Hayden Penn has the ceiling, make up and potential to be a # 1 or # 2 starter in this league. Penn's stuff is comparable to Josh Beckett only a slightly lower level, just without the blisters. I know Chachin can help us more right now, but Penn is just more valuable. Period. Julio > League. Both have the same amazing stuff, but Julio has actually been good before. If I told this board we could get Julio in a trade 2 months ago, we would all be salivating. Admin Bigbie > Gabe Cross Bigbie has done it in the majors , has a sweet lefty swing, and if he can stay healthy has .300 every year batting potential. Gabe Cross is at best a midlevel prospect. Certaintly doesn't make my toes tingle. Also add on getting rid of MIkey's contract look, I love Mike like every other true Marlin, but the fact is that he is not very good for even a 2 million dollar a year player, yet alone what we are paying him. We have a great 3B in Cabrera right now, with Hermida able to take over for him. Getting rid of Mikey's contract allows us to reup Agon, Pierre and maybe a FA OF or just resign Enc. So please someone , anyone , tell me why the Jays deal is better ??? I am stumped. 859891[/snapback] Forget Bigbie and Gross, as fas Im concerned they are throw-ins. Id rather see Aguila or Willingham play over both of them. Ever since Chacin learned the cut fastball early last year, he has been very good everywhere he has went. And so what if he is a #3?... He can atleast help us now, Penn might need another year And why you think Julio is better than League is understandable but League's upside is much greater 859926[/snapback] If this trade was just about help this year, why the hell wouldn't we just keep Aj Burnett and get some draft choices ? When you have a chance to get a possible future front of the rotation starter for a FA pitcher AND get rid of an ugly contract at the same time, you do it.
July 17, 200520 yr Sportsbamer, let me join Maverick in saying please forgive some of the children here (sigh). Obviously Gibbons isn't on steroids, etc. But I also agree with Mav regarding Bigbie, outside of being a lefty bat, I don't see where he helps the Fish. I'd take Gibbons in a heartbeat, I like the way he plays the game, even if he's never going to be an all-star, I think you'd agree that in a choice between the two in an important situation, he's the guy you want up at the plate, not Bigbie. 859857[/snapback] I dont think Bigbie willl ight it up or anything, but to say he is useless is going overboard. Then that penguin loser likes to put words in my mouth. I say usualy pitchers numbers improve going to the NL., and he takes it as I am saying Julio and Kline will be great. All I am saying is better than now. Even with pinch hitters that isnt the same as the AL who is better Jeff Conine or David Ortiz? exactly usually a DH is much better than any pinch hitter. As far as Gibbons on roids, well I wondered about that myself last year lol. I would also take him over Bigbie, Gibbons just stinks at fielding.
July 17, 200520 yr ESPN's insider scouting report seems to agree with me on Bigbie. ALl I said was he ias average and can be good, and you all say he is worthless. Getting Better As He Matures. Valuable Due To His Versatility REPORT Arm Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Arm Strength Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Base Running Rating: PLUS Notes: Good Instincts On Bases Hands Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Hitting for Power Rating: AVERAGE Hit/Run Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Hitting for Average Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Range Rating: AVERAGE Secondary Position Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Arm Strength Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Speed Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Hands Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Range Rating: AVERAGE Competitiveness: AVERAGE - PLUS Intelligence: AVERAGE - PLUS Position: Can Play All 3 Outfield Spots
July 17, 200520 yr ESPN's insider scouting report seems to agree with me on Bigbie. ALl I said was he ias average and can be good, and you all say he is worthless. Getting Better As He Matures. Valuable Due To His Versatility REPORT Arm Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Arm Strength Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Base Running Rating: PLUS Notes: Good Instincts On Bases Hands Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Hitting for Power Rating: AVERAGE Hit/Run Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Hitting for Average Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Range Rating: AVERAGE Secondary Position Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Arm Strength Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Speed Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Hands Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Range Rating: AVERAGE Competitiveness: AVERAGE - PLUS Intelligence: AVERAGE - PLUS Position: Can Play All 3 Outfield Spots 859977[/snapback] worthless. ON THIS TEAM.
July 17, 200520 yr Sportsbamer, let me join Maverick in saying please forgive some of the children here (sigh). Obviously Gibbons isn't on steroids, etc. But I also agree with Mav regarding Bigbie, outside of being a lefty bat, I don't see where he helps the Fish. I'd take Gibbons in a heartbeat, I like the way he plays the game, even if he's never going to be an all-star, I think you'd agree that in a choice between the two in an important situation, he's the guy you want up at the plate, not Bigbie. 859857[/snapback] Then that penguin loser likes to put words in my mouth. I say usualy pitchers numbers improve going to the NL., and he takes it as I am saying Julio and Kline will be great. All I am saying is better than now. 859965[/snapback] :lol That isn't very comforting. In other words, not worth trading Burnett for. It sounds like you are basing everything on gut feelings, which makes for poor arguments. Your attempts to justify this trade for the Fish are futile. 859979[/snapback] Gut feeling? No. I have used some fact, some analysis by ESPN, and logic. All you have said is this guy is horrible and that guy is useless, you have said nothing to support your case
July 17, 200520 yr Sportsbamer, let me join Maverick in saying please forgive some of the children here (sigh). Obviously Gibbons isn't on steroids, etc. But I also agree with Mav regarding Bigbie, outside of being a lefty bat, I don't see where he helps the Fish. I'd take Gibbons in a heartbeat, I like the way he plays the game, even if he's never going to be an all-star, I think you'd agree that in a choice between the two in an important situation, he's the guy you want up at the plate, not Bigbie. 859857[/snapback] I dont think Bigbie willl ight it up or anything, but to say he is useless is going overboard. Then that penguin loser likes to put words in my mouth. I say usualy pitchers numbers improve going to the NL., and he takes it as I am saying Julio and Kline will be great. All I am saying is better than now. Even with pinch hitters that isnt the same as the AL who is better Jeff Conine or David Ortiz? exactly usually a DH is much better than any pinch hitter. As far as Gibbons on roids, well I wondered about that myself last year lol. I would also take him over Bigbie, Gibbons just stinks at fielding. 859965[/snapback] I don't believe I said Bigbie was useless, I said I preferred Gibbons.
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