Adam Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Don't compare Burnett with the likes of Daal, Kline, Mike Dejean, etc. Compare Burnett to Matt Clement. The only 2 things I like about the trade is we save money if Lowell if included and not Ponson. Penn is the other but we have alot of guys like Penn in the minors already and he has gotten hit hard in his last 3 starts in AA including yesterday. Julio has potential but makes 2.5 million already and will likely get a raise to 3 next year after arbitration and will likely be just a set-up man at best.? Bigbie will I think he just sucks and is the worst OF on your team. I rather have Williangham, Aguila, Dillion out there before him. On the downside you guys are getting Lowell and his contract. 858495[/snapback] Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't compare Burnett to the three I mentioned. I realize A.J.'s stuff is far better and ceiling much higher. I'm just giving you our bad luck track record with NL pitchers. I'd love it if A.J. turned out to be as good as Clement has for the BoSox. However, isn't it fair to wonder whether or not he'll end up pitching like Pavano has for the Yanks? Bottom line is we won't know untill he comes here, if he does. I agree with you about Julio... more expensive than he's worth. If he ever straightens out though, he'll be another Benitez. As for Bigbie, I'd say he's #2 as far as being our most dissapointing OF this season. Sammy is a runaway #1 in that category. But ironically, Bigs is probably the guy in that group with the highest ceiling. Some O's fans want to believe he'll be the next Paul O'Neill or Steve Finley. Personally, I'd settle for the mid-90s Baltimore version on B.J. Surhoff (.300-20-80, approximately). If he ends up doing that, you'll have a serviceable outfielder. Seriously, if this trade happens, I hope it works out for the both of us. I'm a die-hard O's fan, but the Marlins are definitely next in my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futureslugger Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I think Penn is overrated and Kline has allowed 21 walks in 32 IP with a high ERA. Kline is no better than DeLosSantos. Ponson, like Everett and Milton Bradley, is a headcase who is DECLINING. Julio is the best piece of the trade and Bigbie is no better than a #4 OF. I like Julio but if we cant get Daniel Cabrera too then I say screw Baltimore and trade AJ elsewhere. 857946[/snapback] kline is a lot better than de los santos he may not being pitching well this year but look at his stats from when he was with the cardinals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubangm Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. I heard a rumor like that also. But if you got it from the ESPN message board like me I wouldn't lose sleep on it. I just hear Arroyo and I already like the Boston deal more than the O's deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I don't go to the ESPN boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubangm Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 What type of source? friend, insider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag5 Posted July 16, 2005 Author Share Posted July 16, 2005 Orioles fans, I understand that AL fans like to try to create this vision that NL pitchers can't compete in the AL. Carl Pavano in 2002 had an ERA of 5.16. In 2003 4.30. In 2004 he had his year, 3.00 and also threw 222IP. His career ERA is 4.27. His ERA this season is 4.77. Do you think pitching in the AL the season after you have thrown 222IP (obviously leading to his arm problems this season) is a lot? Omar Daal. 6.34 ERA for you guys in 2003. 4.46 in 2001, 6.14 in 2000, 7.06 in 1997, 7.20 in 1995. The guy was 36 years old and had always been inconsistent. Mike DeJean had two good seasons (2001 and 2002) and has been gettig worse ever since. He had a 6.13ERA for you guys in 2004(34 years old)...and a 6.31 ERA for the Mets this season. Steve Kline..I like him. This year he has an a .BAA of .333 vs left handed batters and .175 vs righties. Historically he is very solid versus lefties. There is a problem there that hopefully can be corrected. O's fans are funny. Ray Miller is the reason for Chens success. Crowley is the reason Charles Johnson had that awesome year (steroids had nothing to do with it) but Kline, DeJean, Daal and Sosa are NL'ers that can't make it in the AL. Too funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSwift25 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I hunted around SOSH to see what they had about the Arroyo withholding, and it seems that the speculation involved a trade with the Padres (?), but it seems that there is no transaction pending...at least at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 What type of source? friend, insider? :whistle I don't know who the team involved is, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 O's fans are funny. Ray Miller is the reason for Chens success. Crowley is the reason Charles Johnson had that awesome year (steroids had nothing to do with it) but Kline, DeJean, Daal and Sosa are NL'ers that can't make it in the AL. Too funny! 858574[/snapback] Never said they "can't cut it". In fact, I don't think either Burnett or Lowell will have much trouble adjusting. But there's always that possibility. My main thing is losing Penn and to a lesser extent, Bigbie. We're still gunshy over here after the infamous Finley/Schilling/Harnisch trade that landed us the immortal Glenn Davis. That's our own version of "The Curse". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Marlins fans are hilarious...Add Cabrera and Mora for Bigbie and Penn in this deal, haha...Eric Reed is a Juan Pierre clone?? Those statements are a bit out there, not sure they should talk about Orioles fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big O's Fan Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 I want cabrera 857967[/snapback] IF the O's were to trade a 6'7'" hard throwing 24 yr old right hander, whos fast ball consistently hit 95-100 mph on the radar gun. I will personally lead the charge to OPACY to burn the place down lol. Simply put there is NOOOOOOO way B & F would trade Cabrera, absolutely no way. Oh yeah and forget about Mora also, the fish would probably have to offer their Cabrera in order to receive an All Star 3rd sacker in the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 oy vey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NirvanaNole Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. 858552[/snapback] A deal with the Marlins? Or a deal with another team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. A deal with the Marlins? Or a deal with another team?The team is unknown, to this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NirvanaNole Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. A deal with the Marlins? Or a deal with another team?The team is unknown, to this point 858800[/snapback] Since you don't know the team, I'll hope it is us and we get Arroyo and their SS prospect. :thumbup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockbird Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Hey Fish Fans, another voice from the O's contigent visiting here. I, personally hope the deal goes through since I think Burnett is the top of the rotation guy we need to secure our rotation for a playoff run. This all depends on him signing an extension though (and our often incompetent management getting it done). While some want to just wait until the offseason to sign him, many of us realise we might not get that chance. Why many of us want to wait is because we DO think the package being offered is pretty good. Penn is really beloved here. It was rumored we had a deal done in the offseason for Tim Hudson and it was pulled because we would not trade Penn without an extension in place. He's only 20 years old and looked pretty good against ML hitting. He very well could have won his first 2 games with a little run support. He seemed to really fool some hitter badly. Of course, along with being 20 is an inexperience that lead to fatigue and a little overmatching. He's not ready now, but the potential is there. He's no doubt our highest regarded prospect. When the debate was whether to send Cabrera or Penn, the board was very much split in either direction. I think with Cabrera's recent performances more have come over to the trade Penn side, but not because of a lack of confidence in Penn, but more just realising how good Cabrera can be. Many still don't want to trade either. Julio is a good piece for you guys, especially if you need bullpen help. It's feast or famine with him. He's either lights out or bombs away! That's why he lost the closer's job. He wouldn't just give up 1 run, he'd give up 5. But he can still be a strikeout machine when he's on. He's very similar to Armando Benitez when we had him. We let him go and he became a top closer. Maybe that will happen here. We just got Jason Grimsely back from the DL and a youngster named Chris Ray up from AAA who has looked real good, that makes Julio expendable, not his talent which he has. You are also selling Bigbie very short which is very sad to see for most O's fans, I think. This may sound silly but when you look at Bigbie he LOOKS like a baseball player. He's tall, lean, has deceptive speed, good defense, can hit linedrives and has some untapped power too (15 homers last year). He has had some injury trouble that has stunted him though. But he came back this year on a tear and hit all 4 of his homeruns within a couple weeks. To say he's our "worst" outfielder is simply wrong. Sosa has been a complete failure to the point that he is now a full time DH, Luis Matos is a defensive wiz but has no bat while Surhoff and Marrero are part timers and off the bench types. Gibbons has been a better hitter than Bigbie, but defense, hands down Bigbie. He has the most "tools" of any of our outfielders, I think you'd be pleasently suprised and many of us have been trying to cook up trades that wouldn't involve Bigbie. Kline...oh boy. Well, you know his track record, his season has been a real enigma. He's been terrible, no way around it. He's done himself no favors with the comments he's made to the media that some interpreted as anti-Baltimore. Maybe he just needs a change of scenario. If he plays like his career he's a top lefty setup guy, which is what we THOUGHT we were getting. I don't give much credence to Ponson being included but if he is, all I'll say is as terrible as he's been in the first half, Ponson had an equally bad first half last year and really turned it on in the second half with something like 8 wins and a low ERA. Even when he stinks, Ponson is a workhorse and will get better as the game goes on and will give you 8 innings. Plus he's Aruban, so that's cool. So, I hope I helped give a little perspective from a Baltimore fan. Now for you guys, I think I know Burnett a little, from what I've heard and read he sounds like a strikeout machine with real ace potential, but many of us were thinking Pavano was the answer last year and see how he turned out. Would you mind giving some depth to AJ, and how you would rate him? Also, Mike Lowell is a really mystery too. What's the common perspective on him? Is this just an off year like Burrel or Konerko had and he'll turn it around? Can he play 1st base for us (since Mora is solidy there. Seriously to the guy who suggested we trade Mora, without being rude, I can say you're delusional)? How about the outfield since Bigbie's departure creates a hole? Thanks and hope you guys are enjoying Niner, he was a popular Bird while he played here. Let's get this deal done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Shadow Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Hayden Penn numbers from last night against Trenton 3IN 5H 4R 3ER 3BB 2K 3HR the kid appears to have trouble keeping the ball in the park..O by the way there were a few Marlins scouts watching last night game. I'm sure they weren't impressed by the kid performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockbird Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 It doesn't look good but every player goes through bad stretches. If you had seen some of Cabrera's early inning blowouts this year you wouldn't want him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Just to stir the pot a bit: According to a source of mine familiar with the negotiations, the Red Sox have agreed to a deal today. The team and the players that were involved, however, cannot be announced tonight (some say due to the concert Bronson Arroyo is holding). We'll see who is involved. 858552[/snapback] This deserves it's own thread me thinks. If we could get a Hanley Ramirez :notworthy To Beinfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudo Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Between this BAD news and the error riddled game they are playing tonight against Philly it looks like management and the players have hung it up for the season. It is so dissappointing. :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Adressing the cryptic message left by Mr. Juanky dealing with the Red Sox. ESPN radio announcers calling the game today mentioned near the end that during the break a trade was hear around the press box area, they could not confirm it, so no names were released...but it is rumored to deal with Bronson Arroyo. I think its more of a Internet/Radio filler baloney but that is just me. BTW Juanky, you post is being linked on at least three Red Sox boards right now...you have the 'nation' in fits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Adressing the cryptic message left by Mr. Juanky dealing with the Red Sox. ESPN radio announcers calling the game today mentioned near the end that during the break a trade was hear around the press box area, they could not confirm it, so no names were released...but it is rumored to deal with Bronson Arroyo. I think its more of a Internet/Radio filler baloney but that is just me. BTW Juanky, you post is being linked on at least three Red Sox boards right now...you have the 'nation' in fits... 859191[/snapback] :lol Juanky :notworthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Adressing the cryptic message left by Mr. Juanky dealing with the Red Sox. ESPN radio announcers calling the game today mentioned near the end that during the break a trade was hear around the press box area, they could not confirm it, so no names were released...but it is rumored to deal with Bronson Arroyo. I think its more of a Internet/Radio filler baloney but that is just me. BTW Juanky, you post is being linked on at least three Red Sox boards right now...you have the 'nation' in fits... 859191[/snapback] :lol Juanky :notworthy 859196[/snapback] Yeah...we have 128 guests in this thread alone... :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marlins2005 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 arroyo in marlins stripes by tomorrow? Btw, i just got peter gammons screen name. :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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