Marlins2003 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 And can we turn down the rhetoric a bit please, we can disagree wthout the personal jabs and stuff. I try to always be a gentleman at Orioleshangout and for the most part am treated that way there. These attacks from both sides accomplishes nothing except it's taking place on our board and it makes us look bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 ESPN's insider scouting report seems to agree with me on Bigbie. ALl I said was he ias average and can be good, and you all say he is worthless. Getting Better As He Matures. Valuable Due To His Versatility REPORT Arm Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Arm Strength Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Base Running Rating: PLUS Notes: Good Instincts On Bases Hands Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Hitting for Power Rating: AVERAGE Hit/Run Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Hitting for Average Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Range Rating: AVERAGE Secondary Position Accuracy Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Arm Strength Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Speed Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Hands Rating: AVERAGE - PLUS Secondary Position Range Rating: AVERAGE Competitiveness: AVERAGE - PLUS Intelligence: AVERAGE - PLUS Position: Can Play All 3 Outfield Spots 859977[/snapback] worthless. ON THIS TEAM. 859988[/snapback] Fair enough, I never said he wasnt. But that doesnt make him a horrible player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Sportsbamer, let me join Maverick in saying please forgive some of the children here (sigh). Obviously Gibbons isn't on steroids, etc. But I also agree with Mav regarding Bigbie, outside of being a lefty bat, I don't see where he helps the Fish. I'd take Gibbons in a heartbeat, I like the way he plays the game, even if he's never going to be an all-star, I think you'd agree that in a choice between the two in an important situation, he's the guy you want up at the plate, not Bigbie. 859857[/snapback] Then that penguin loser likes to put words in my mouth. I say usualy pitchers numbers improve going to the NL., and he takes it as I am saying Julio and Kline will be great. All I am saying is better than now. 859965[/snapback] :lol That isn't very comforting. In other words, not worth trading Burnett for. It sounds like you are basing everything on gut feelings, which makes for poor arguments. Your attempts to justify this trade for the Fish are futile. 859979[/snapback] Gut feeling? No. I have used some fact, some analysis by ESPN, and logic. All you have said is this guy is horrible and that guy is useless, you have said nothing to support your case 859992[/snapback] I'm talking about Kline and Julio here... Haven't their performances so far this season been enough to prove they won't help the Fish? Why should they settle for underperforming relievers when they can contact teams out of the race? If you want me to look up stats, I could, but it's not really necessary. 860013[/snapback] If they both perform as they are now than Kline will only hurt and Julio will only help sometimes. I think Julio just needs a change of scenery , he has the tools, maybe not the head. Julio was lights out until early June and since he has been pretty bad. With Kline, I just find it hard to believe a guy can be so good then be so bad the next year, not sure how he would do there but I think going back to the NL would help him, I wish he would be traded to an AL team so the Orioles can smash him lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Okay, everyone get their rulers out and measure who's got... Enough already ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfan79 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 personally if the red sox gave up Arroyo and Hanely and another minor leaguer to us I would jump over the deal for AJ and Lowell. That would give us a good young starter for next year. Then a SS for next year that is an All star capable player in the future. Along with Hermida that gives us a solid young duo (plus cabrera and aguila). We would have youth again to compliment our team next year. You can get relief pitchers elsewhere with things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahow Mahow Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Can't you guys snip those quotes? This thread is getting tough to read. And there's no way The Sox are going to trade Arroyo and Hanley for Burnett. Burnett is good, but he really isn't that much better than Arroyo when you come right down to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Marlins 2005, yeah it wasnt you that said he was useless. You are a gentleman here and on orioleshangout.com and it is appreciated. I hope I didnt make anybody mad, just sometimes things can get heated when debating sports, never personal, thats when I am done when people go to name calling just over disagreeing about a team or player. I think we all overrate our own players and it is obvious when we talk to each other lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Could you guys tell me about this prospect Eric Reed who may be involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Could you guys tell me about this prospect Eric Reed who may be involved? 860036[/snapback] think Juan Pierre, with a better arm and with not as good O :thumbup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfan79 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Arroyo is up for a contract after next year himself. He really isnt that great of a "younger" pitcher. But he is solid. And yes, I know it is slim they will sell off Hanely, but one could hope. Besides that the White sox deal is the best one around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfan79 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Reed is a speedster that knows how to play good solid small ball. He will be our CF after next year when Pierre leaves for big cash. He has a good solid arm and speed. He knows how to bunt and play the infield hits. He has good instincts on the bases. Of course little power and really a typical NL lead off hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Marlins 2005, yeah it wasnt you that said he was useless. You are a gentleman here and on orioleshangout.com and it is appreciated. I hope I didnt make anybody mad, just sometimes things can get heated when debating sports, never personal, thats when I am done when people go to name calling just over disagreeing about a team or player. I think we all overrate our own players and it is obvious when we talk to each other lol. 860034[/snapback] I'm "Marlins2003", Marlins2005 is some newbie. The namecalling and crap talk makes both boards look bad. :thumbdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Thanks. He sounds good, not sure where he fits in on this team if we got him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsbamer Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Marlins 2005, yeah it wasnt you that said he was useless. You are a gentleman here and on orioleshangout.com and it is appreciated. I hope I didnt make anybody mad, just sometimes things can get heated when debating sports, never personal, thats when I am done when people go to name calling just over disagreeing about a team or player. I think we all overrate our own players and it is obvious when we talk to each other lol. 860034[/snapback] I'm "Marlins2003", Marlins2005 is some newbie. The namecalling and crap talk makes both boards look bad. :thumbdown 860056[/snapback] I meant you, just couldnt remember which you were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdsxmbnt Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 I doubt the Red Sox are going to deal Hanley and especially not Arroyo and Hanley for Burnett and Lowell. When the Red Sox and Marlins talked about a deal in the offseason, the proposed deal was Hanley for Burnett straight up so theres no way him AND Arroyo are involved in the deal unless we get someone alot more talneted and cheaper than Lowell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Well, apparently my opinion doesn't mean as much across the interweb as it did 24 hours ago ( :lol apparently I'm being compared to some guy named Maalox, a little help there Passion if you please), but here's why I don't like the Orioles deal: - I'm not going to lie when I say that I wanted Steve Kline signed this past offseason, because I believed he would do better than Matt Perisho (and by consequence, Valerio De Los Santos and Chad Bentz). He as good numbers, don't get me wrong. But how are we to be sure he isn't damaged goods after what pitching in Camden Yards has done to him? Another sign of worry is his unusually high ERA on the road since 2002. Why, pitching in Busch Gardens and Camden Yards, would Kline stuggle on the road (4.46 ERA, 83.2 IP, 76 H, 41 ER, 9 HR, 47 K / 35 BB) while pitching well at home (1.81 ERA, 90.2 IP, 71 H, 18 ER, 2 HR, 60 K / 33 BB). Does pitching with a negative crowd get to him? One thing is for sure, he was a good reliever and could regain his magic. But at this point for him to be the centerpiece of a deal (or the second best player, as he is here) tells you it's not a solid deal for the best available arm in the Majors. - Acquiring Admin Bigbie, from a Marlin perspective, is pointless. We would be much better served bringing Hermida up and having an OF of Hermida/Pierre/Encarnacion with Cabrera at third than having Bigbie starting and platooning with Jeff Conine. Even then, I might just prefer to play Niner everyday if they don't call Hermida up and have someone better made available to us, even if he isn't what he used to be. - Jorge Julio would enter as maybe the fourth best reliever on this team talent wise, if not worse, so there's no point. He is proven, but that doesn't mean he is proven at being good. Todd Jones, Guillermo Mota, Jim Mecir, Antonio Alfonseca all are better and "proven." Chris Resop and Randy Messenger have more talent. The only person Julio is better than is De Los Santos, and DLS gets the nod because he throws with his left arm instead of his right. - Hayden Penn is money. But trading AJ for Penn and parts make no sense. And as an aside, I think that Tomas Perez hit might have officially made us sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishfan79 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 The rumored deal earlier on in the year in the papers was Arroyo and Hanely. I know they would most likely not give up that kid unless straight up. But shall see. Depends on what happens with Schilling I think. But, I think whomever gets AJ is gonna overpay. Partly to keep him out of the hands of the Yanks or whomever else wants him in the AL. Schilling, Clement, AJ, Wells, Wakefield. Now that is a sick pitching line up. Can you say repeat for the Bosox? Put lowell at third and mueller over to 2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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