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There are two possibilities...


afer13
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1-The team has given up and Mckeon has lost the clubhouse.

 

2-We suck.

 

 

Opinions wanted.

 

 

I think the team has 'given up', not in the literal sense of the word but in a deeper sense. The team care's but not enough to win a game. Seven runs day after day is unacceptable. Lowell K'ing with runners on 2nd and 3rd no outs is unacceptable. I dont want to trade Burnett or Lowell but a move needs to be made. Contending teams don't have players like Bump, Messenger, Olsen...as key components. A dtrain and Cabrera happening only once in 200 call ups. They are are a rarity. I say we make a move before the season spirals out of control...

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I dont blame Jack because he can't go out there and make AGON concentrate..he can't make Mikey hit, he can't make Encarnacion care. I blame certain players...I.E. J. Encarnacion, M. Lowell (not for not caring but for not making a difference this year), A.J. for being an immature brat, and Beckett for lack of a better word not- "cowboying up"

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I dont blame Jack because he can't go out there and make AGON concentrate..he can't make Mikey hit, he can't make Encarnacion care. I blame certain players...I.E. J. Encarnacion, M. Lowell (not for not caring but for not making a difference this year), A.J. for being an immature brat, and Beckett for lack of a better word not- "cowboying up"

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Enc has been one of the few positives, how can you blame anything on him? Just because he doesn't smile doesn't mean he doesn't care. Did you see that catch where he went flipping over the bullpen wall? Just because he loafs under balls to catch them doesn't mean he doesn't care. There's a lot of people to blame, Encarnacion, 3rd in HRs on the team, is not one of them.

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I dont blame Jack because he can't go out there and make AGON concentrate..he can't make Mikey hit, he can't make Encarnacion care. I blame certain players...I.E. J. Encarnacion, M. Lowell (not for not caring but for not making a difference this year), A.J. for being an immature brat, and Beckett for lack of a better word not- "cowboying up"

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Enc has been one of the few positives, how can you blame anything on him? Just because he doesn't smile doesn't mean he doesn't care. Did you see that catch where he went flipping over the bullpen wall? Just because he loafs under balls to catch them doesn't mean he doesn't care. There's a lot of people to blame, Encarnacion, 3rd in HRs on the team, is not one of them.

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I disagree, while he has improved from last year, he is a terrible hitter. HR's are nice and so are RBI's but not if they come at meaningless times. Just like when D LEE was here, if u are up 7-0 a GS means jack sh!tl. Enc K's to much and has an OPS in the lower 5% on the MLB. I think he doesn't care not because of his Dfence, but rather his lacksedasicle attitude when batting. The team can not survive with both AGON and Enc on the same team. They are both weak hitters.

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Hmmm...that has always been the jackpot question around here. He seems to be in the team regardless of what happens. I dont' think he is going anywhere soon, cuz if u really look at it the team is hitting well, they just aren't doing it at the right time. The heat is now on pitching and the bullpen IMO, not so much on hitting although that is always an issue with this team.

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Moves have to be made. I mean the Marlins are the most underachieving team in all of baseball this year. There is not another team with this much talent that is failing as badly. Changes have to be made to jumpstart things. And it includes manager and players. As much I would hate to see Lowell and Burnett and Jack go after the great things they've done.

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I got a question. If Mckeon gets fired what do they do with Bill Robinson? I sure hope he gets fired as well.

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Burn him alive to the baseball gods so out bats will work! Come on jobu work for Carlos!

 

I think McKeon has lost the clubhouse, but I do gotta say mikey hit well last night. That was good to see.

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HAHAHA. WOW. I posted something last week titled "We Suck" and people were about to hunt me down and murder my family. Now we post "We Suck" and everyone agrees. Amazing how quickly we turn.

 

Anyways, McKeon has lost the clubhouse. He lost it during our first chunk of loses. And he definitely lost it when he berated Mota on the mound in Washington. But that isn't the biggest problem.....

 

The BIGGEST problem is that the clubhouse HAS no LEADERS. Like Darren Daulton was in 1997. You would think Lowell (yeah, his performance doesn't show "leadership" but hes a vet on this team and thats what matters) or LoDuca would take the lead. So mix the lack of leadership w/ the lack of managerial control of the clubhouse and bake at 350 for 3 months and WA-LA you have your 2005 Florida Marlins.

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Yeah, you know Jack really misplayed those two fly balls in RF last night and it's all his fault Mike Lowell (not a Lowell bash pre se, I'm not gungho about trading him) couldn't advance the runner into scoring position too.

 

It's easy to blame Jack for the sins being committed on the field, and while it may be time for a new manager (which I'm ambivalent on), let's blame for the thngs he does and not for things that are out of his control.

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There's an old adage in sports about you can't fire the team, so you fire the manager.

 

Who cares is Jack taking an at bat or playing in the outfield? The performance of the team W-L lies solely on the manager. Just like a quarterback in football, if the manager is going to get credit when everything is ok, then the should get the "credit" when things go bad.

 

I'm guessing that back in 1978 that Yankee fans were saying that it wasn't Billy Martin' fault that the team was stumbling and the Sox were running away with the division. Managers are hired to be fired, and many get fired all the time during the season.

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The Astros canned their manager last year around this time and that seemed to work out. They Ended up 1 game away from the Series.

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By this point last year the Astros had allready fired Jimy Williams

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True, but they were also 1 game below .500, just like we are now.

 

And they'd be 4 games below in August, before they really turned it on.

 

There's still hope left for us, though just a little. :thumbup

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yeah, and the Astros also got Carlos Beltran and Roger Clemens. Who do we have? Dontrell Willis and Miguel Cabrera. Although good talents nothing compared to what Beltran did at the end of last season and what Clemens has done for the past decade and a half.

 

Not to mention the astros got to beat up on the brewers pirates reds and cubs. Where as the philies, braves and nationals beat up on us. how we won 2 of 3 in NY eludes me. Oh yeah, and one more important thing....the Astros started the season i think 10 games BELOW .500. So the fact that they are 1 game over .500 at this time means one thing (dont hurt your brain on this one)........THEY WERE ALREADY GETTING HOT. You see, they started their hot streak BEFORE the ASG and they still werent in the mix of the WC until close to the end of the season. We are getting cold, colder than cold. You dont lose like this AFTER the ASG and say to yourselves "we can turn it around in the second half".

 

Plus, the Astros were once again regaining some momentum before the ASG (relative to how they started)> Oh yeah, and last i checked our name wasn't the Huston Astros.

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yeah, and the Astros also got Carlos Beltran and Roger Clemens. Who do we have? Dontrell Willis and Miguel Cabrera. Although good talents nothing compared to what Beltran did at the end of last season and what Clemens has done for the past decade and a half.

 

Not to mention the astros got to beat up on the brewers pirates reds and cubs. Where as the philies, braves and nationals beat up on us. how we won 2 of 3 in NY eludes me. Oh yeah, and one more important thing....the Astros started the season i think 10 games BELOW .500. So the fact that they are 1 game over .500 at this time means one thing (dont hurt your brain on this one)........THEY WERE ALREADY GETTING HOT. You see, they started their hot streak BEFORE the ASG and they still werent in the mix of the WC until close to the end of the season. We are getting cold, colder than cold. You dont lose like this AFTER the ASG and say to yourselves "we can turn it around in the second half".

 

Plus, the Astros were once again regaining some momentum before the ASG (relative to how they started)> Oh yeah, and last i checked our name wasn't the Huston Astros.

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"Don't hurt your brain?" LOL... Dear Mr. Musk, you're the one thinking way too hard on this. In baseball, anyhthing can happen. We're not done until the math says we are. Until then, just enjoy the ride. :thumbup

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Here's my 2 cents or sense---whatever word works. It's simple the 2 possibilities are choice A) The talent is over-rated or B) Jack McKeon has never been a good long-term manager and not having Ozzie Guillen around is exposing him.

 

The Facts are that as a team, the batting average is up there; the facts are that we have a Cy Young Award candidate; the facts are that we have one of the best 1-2 punches in the middle of our lineup; the facts are we have one of the best defenses; the facts are we have 3 of the most prized SPs in MLB wanted by many teams, with 1 available; the facts are that, with Pierre appearing to be nearly back to form, we have the best top 2 hitters in any lineup; the facts are that we have 3 of the top 10 players in the NL this year (Willis, Cabrera, Delgado) and 1 of the best all-around 2Bs in the game; the facts are that the fish are getting what was expected from A.Gonzalez and J. Encarnacion; I can go on and on. Yes, there are some down sides to all of this starting with our lousy bullpen, an injured "ace" SP, and what was once 1 of the top 5 3Bs in the game having his worst year, but the team's failures go beyond these problems. There are alot of things that INDIVIDUALLY are being done as expected, but have not come together as a unit to win this team games. Therefore, it isn't the talent or their lack of achievement.

 

So, in short, many parts of the body are performing as expected (when it was all put on paper), but there is no head in the form of leadership. Is it the players' decision when to change a pitcher or who to bring in? If an inexperienced pitcher is brought in, is it the players' job to explain to them the difference between AAA or AA in contrast to MLB? Is it the players' decision when to do a hit and run (Have we even had one this year)? Is it the players' decision when to bunt or steal a base? MOST OF ALL, IS IT THE PLAYERS' JOB TO KNOW EVERY PLAYER'S ABILITY TO KNOW WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO FOR THE TEAM AND SELECT THE CORRECT PLAYER FOR EACH SITUATION OR CALL FOR THE SITUATION THAT THE PLAYER CAN SUCCEED IN? There are many other questions on whether it the players' job or not that can go on forever. The point is, if it's the players' jobs to make the decisions along with performing, why do they need a manager or coaches? With all of this out there, how can anyone still defend Jack McKeon and put all of the blame on the players when this team sits in last place and 1 game under .500? What manager would have a team score less than 3 runs in 30 games this year with guys like Castillo, Cabrera, and Delgado having the years that they had; The team looked strong enough to win with the expected numbers of LoDuca, A. Gonzalez, and Encarnacion; and, although he isn't playing up to his ability, Pierre isn't having a totally disastrous year and is still among the leaders in SBs; Lowell is essentially the only person having a totally useless season. Nearly every team in MLB has 1 guy that is performing below his expected production, but we're the only team that supposedly has offensive struggles because of it! Why doesn't anyone look at our lack of aggressiveness? Do we really need a 3-run homer to win or 4 hits, 4 walks, or combination of both to score a run in an inning?

 

OK, our pitching is failing us lately, but we wouldn't be in last or under .500 if the opportunities to win weren't blown so many times earlier this season.

 

Gammons repeated what so many have pointed out; "Jack usually wears out his welcome in his 3rd year..."

 

I'd go as far as to say this; If Jack and Frank Robinson were to switch teams before the beginning of the season, I believe that Frank would have the Marlins in 1st by a long margin and Jack would have the Nationals in last. If you doubt it, just take off the Nats' in-season additions and compare the talent. There is no way that the Nats entered the season better than the fish.

 

Admin, it's not the players!!! Please do the obviously needed move. How long will we deal with this madness?

 

:banghead

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Not to totally disagree but

 

a.Therefore, it isn't the talent or their lack of achievement. >>>Talent is there. Individual achievement for certain players but when on the line, these same guys have not been that successful. Take last night as an example. We do not perform in the clutch.

 

b. IS IT THE PLAYERS' JOB TO KNOW EVERY PLAYER'S ABILITY TO KNOW WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO FOR THE TEAM AND SELECT THE CORRECT PLAYER FOR EACH SITUATION OR CALL FOR THE SITUATION THAT THE PLAYER CAN SUCCEED IN>>>>>Please! You do not get to the major leagues without having ability or know-how of the game. Baseball is game of percentages and most of time, you failure rate is great. This is not a high school baseball team. Everyone of the 25 guys should be capable to perform but see above.

 

c. I'd go as far as to say this>>>>>>that you obviously have some valid points but it is the players performance that looses games. It has been stated statistically that managers directly affect outcomes of

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Not to totally disagree but

 

a.Therefore, it isn't the talent or their lack of achievement. >>>Talent is there. Individual achievement for certain players but when on the line, these same guys have not been that successful. Take last night as an example. We do not perform in the clutch.

 

b. IS IT THE PLAYERS' JOB TO KNOW EVERY PLAYER'S ABILITY TO KNOW WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO FOR THE TEAM AND SELECT THE CORRECT PLAYER FOR EACH SITUATION OR CALL FOR THE SITUATION THAT THE PLAYER CAN SUCCEED IN>>>>>Please! You do not get to the major leagues without having ability or know-how of the game. Baseball is game of percentages and most of time, you failure rate is great. This is not a high school baseball team. Everyone of the 25 guys should be capable to perform but see above.

 

c. I'd go as far as to say this>>>>>>that you obviously have some valid points but it is the players performance that looses games. It has been stated statistically that managers directly affect outcomes of

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i say we suck...... and all the bandwagon jumpers can hump the f*** off well us die hard fans bare a Horrible and dissapointing summa......

 

oh well this is no diffrent than

 

96,98,99,00,01,02 and 04 and now 05........

 

and my opnion on the suck theory is we had pitching in da 1st half and no offense......

 

and now we have the offense and no pitching......

 

Vargas should won last night....... damn pen, then again wha more can you say about the pen......

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and my opnion on the suck theory is we had pitching in da 1st half and no offense......

 

and now we have the offense and no pitching......

 

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Wow, I don't know what to answer to first. Your blatant disregard for the english language or the fact that you think we have an offense. If you are watching/listening to most of the games you will realize that most of our runs come late in the game and really dont mean much because by that time the game is already over. I think we put together a couple of runs in the 8th and 9th innings against phily but that as after we were down like 10. Yeah, the bullpen has emploded but by no means do we "have an offense". especially the way they should be playing.

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