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Dem wants to allow police to use racial profiling


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NEW YORK (AP) -- Middle Easterners should be targeted for searches on city subways, two elected officials said, contending that police have been wasting time with random checks in efforts to prevent terrorism in the transit system.

 

The city began examining passengers' bags on subways and buses after the second bomb attack in London two weeks ago. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly and Mayor Michael Bloomberg have said several times that officers will not engage in racial profiling.

 

But over the weekend, state Assemblyman Dov Hikind said police should be focusing on those who fit the "terrorist profile."

 

"They all look a certain way," said Hikind, a Democrat from Brooklyn. "It's all very nice to be politically correct here, but we're talking about terrorism."

 

On Tuesday, Republican City Councilman James Oddo said the Sept. 11 World Trade Center attack by Middle Eastern men in hijacked airplanes prompted him to publicly declare his support for Hikind's statements.

 

"The reality is that there is a group of people who want to kill us and destroy our way of life," he said. "Young Arab fundamentalists are the individuals undertaking these acts of terror, and we should keep those facts prominently in our minds and eyes as we attempt to secure our populace."

 

Oddo commended Hikind for "rushing headlong against the strong undertow of political correctness."

 

Hikind said he planned to introduce legislation allowing police to racially profile, and Oddo said he intended to introduce a resolution in the City Council supporting the measure.

 

The director of the New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Wissam Nasr, said their push for racial profiling is offensive and ignorant.

 

"Terror comes in all shapes and sizes, and certainly there's no legislation or system that's going to identify terrorists on the spot," Nasr said.

 

The New York Police Department said in a statement that racial profiling is "illegal, of doubtful effectiveness and against department policy."

 

The Republican mayor reiterated Tuesday that it is against the law and doesn't work. "I'm against it for fairness reasons, and we're not going to do it," he said.

 

Finally, a democrat I can agree with :thumbup .

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I support the idea, but only tentatively. It makes me uneasy to give carte blanche to racial profiling. But at the same time, terrorism is a much bigger problem than racial profiling. So I would basically say go forward with it, but be very careful.

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Guest Fritz

I support the idea, but only tentatively. It makes me uneasy to give carte blanche to racial profiling. But at the same time, terrorism is a much bigger problem than racial profiling. So I would basically say go forward with it, but be very careful.

887416[/snapback]

I concur.

 

 

Finally black people won't be racially profi...errr...randomly searched.

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His justification for this is "they all look a certain way"? They use people who dont look like them! The sheer idiocy of some people never ceases to amaze me.

887453[/snapback]

 

In Israel, they started racially profiling young male muslim types and eventually Hizboullah and other groups started recruiting women and even non-muslims, so it is only a temporary solution.

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While I agree that a lesser evil such as racial profiling should be used to combat a far greater evil such as terrorism, I don't think it will amount to much.

 

Islamic terrorists aren't going to be entering airports or subways on a camel screaming "YI!!! YI!! America the wounded snake!!! Alluha Ackbarr!!!!"

 

Also Arabs and Central Asians can look alot like white and Indian Hispanics. Some Iranians for example can even look white. There are probably plenty of Chechyn and black Lybians and Sudanese volunteers to throw off profilers.

 

All that said, if this helps counter-terrorism efforts here, even marginally, I'm all for it.

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They're wasting their own time.

 

There has already been evidence that Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups are looking to recruit blacks, whites, women, and other non-Arabs to carry out their attacks.

 

I have to disagree with this. It makes more sense to watch for suspicious activity.

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His justification for this is "they all look a certain way"? They use people who dont look like them! The sheer idiocy of some people never ceases to amaze me.

887453[/snapback]

 

In Israel, they started racially profiling young male muslim types and eventually Hizboullah and other groups started recruiting women and even non-muslims, so it is only a temporary solution.

887500[/snapback]

Right, so why even let them get to the point of wanting to recruit others?

 

 

All that said, if this helps counter-terrorism efforts here, even marginally, I'm all for it.

 

Yeah but with everything that is marginal, you have to take into account burden/benefit ratio. The burden is nothing terrible but its way higher than the benefit. We could arrest all people who are brown right now and massivley increase the burden but also massivley increase the benefit(probably netting a terrorist cell)..hence its still marginal utility. The reason we dont want this is because we dont want to engage in that burden. (or do we?)

 

Instead, something that creates absolutley no burden but creates a strong benefit is using the dogs. I dont know if anyone else here takes mass transit to work, but in DC there numerous brown people. At least 10 in a car plus 10 or so cars. Thats 100 people in one train. The trains run every two minutes. Randomly searching people would barely work. They do however use dogs and they are on every station at every platform from what I can tell.

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When do we get clear evidence? When they blow up a train? These are independant terrorists cells that operate in near silence. They dont advertise much. And havent they already used non Arabs? Tariq mentioned the Ethopian suspect. He even posted a picture. So we have to stop blacks. They have strong ties to MS-13, the South American gang. Wasnt one of the post 9-11 suspects hispanic?

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The problem with racial profiling, especially with publicizing it, is that it will show people that don't fit the terrorist stereotype that they might be able to get away with crimes.

 

For instance, if some wackjob white elderly lady knows that only middle-eastern looking people will be searched, then that will make her take her chances going through a search point with a bomb in her purse. Now I realize that example is VERY unlikely, but you get the idea...

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Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

Racial profiling isn't the answer. Giving up our civil liberties isn't the answer.

 

Profiling based on race is stupid...profiling based on suspicous behavior is smart.

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Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

Racial profiling isn't the answer. Giving up our civil liberties isn't the answer.

 

Profiling based on race is stupid...profiling based on suspicous behavior is smart.

888418[/snapback]

Exactly what I think.

 

I really have a fear that domestic terrorism will rise in the next 5-10 years, especially if we pay less attention to the home-grown whackos, and guys like McVeigh.

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Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

Racial profiling isn't the answer. Giving up our civil liberties isn't the answer.

 

Profiling based on race is stupid...profiling based on suspicous behavior is smart.

888418[/snapback]

Exactly what I think.

 

I really have a fear that domestic terrorism will rise in the next 5-10 years, especially if we pay less attention to the home-grown whackos, and guys like McVeigh.

888436[/snapback]

 

There really isn't much in place to prevent people like you and me from entering a mall and shooting up the place with an automatic rifle or blowing ourselves up at a supermarket.

 

In an open democracy you really just hold your breath and pray to whatever god you pray too that things like that don't happen and if they do you hope to limit the damage the best you can.

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Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

888418[/snapback]

 

Predictable and typical response. You will need to give more evidence than that.

 

A lot has changed in ten years I'm afraid.

888886[/snapback]

 

It's a predictable response because unlike your assertion, it's true. Are you seriously doubting that the OK City bombings weren't done by white males? More to the point, perhaps you are the one that should provide evidence of your absolute statement that all terrorists are Muslims.

 

By the way, Eric Rudolph says hi.

 

What makes you think they will neglect suspicious activity?

 

I think the point here is that our resources would be used more intelligently if we targeted those by race rather than random searching of every 5th person in line.

888896[/snapback]

I think the point is it our resources would be used more intelligently if we targeted those exhibiting suspicous behavior instead of those who happen to be of a certain race. :banghead

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i'm sorry but when you go to an airport and a little kid gets wanded and 95 year old guy has to take off his belt and shoes when he can hardly walk but a dude with a turban goes right through, somethings wrong.

889008[/snapback]

How many of the terrorists wore turbans? Think before making ignorant stupid comments. These guys could smuggle stuff through their kids or elderly parents.

 

 

This silly comment reminds of another reason such a policy consideration can be dangerous. Whats to stop a terrorist from replacing someone else's bag or planting something in someone else's bag knowing there is a low chance it will get searched?

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First of all as I said in the post-September 11th world there is a new breed of terrorism. This isn't 10 years ago. There is a culture of extremists present that want to kill as many Americans as possible.

 

Give me examples from the last 4 years of non-Muslim terrorist activity.

 

As for your last sentence you need to reread my post. It's not an issue of looking for suspicious activity or not (that won't be neglected). It's about targeting those in this new era of terrorism that are more likely to be suspects instead of every 5th person in line.

889532[/snapback]

 

Dude, perhaps you should reread your post. Your statement that all terrorists are Muslims is downright insulting and false. Again, my assertion isn't that we should maintain simple random checks - but we should augment it with profiling for suspicous behavior. Robert Reid and John Walker Lindh could easily escape your racial profiling.

 

Racial profiling does nothing but help the terrorists win - because we stop believing in freedom. I'm guessing that you're white and don't have to worry about racial profiling so it's easy for you to surrender it by indicating how great a solution it is because it doesn't affect you. So stop and think for a moment about the history of bigotry and racist policies of this country...then think about the strides we've made toward equality - and how quickly your "solution" would completely eradicate it. It is no more of a solution than Hitler's version of the "final solution".

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Guest Fritz

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

888418[/snapback]

 

Predictable and typical response. You will need to give more evidence than that.

 

A lot has changed in ten years I'm afraid.

888886[/snapback]

 

It's a predictable response because unlike your assertion, it's true. Are you seriously doubting that the OK City bombings weren't done by white males? More to the point, perhaps you are the one that should provide evidence of your absolute statement that all terrorists are Muslims.

 

By the way, Eric Rudolph says hi.

 

What makes you think they will neglect suspicious activity?

 

I think the point here is that our resources would be used more intelligently if we targeted those by race rather than random searching of every 5th person in line.

888896[/snapback]

I think the point is it our resources would be used more intelligently if we targeted those exhibiting suspicous behavior instead of those who happen to be of a certain race. :banghead

888991[/snapback]

 

First of all as I said in the post-September 11th world there is a new breed of terrorism. This isn't 10 years ago. There is a culture of extremists present that want to kill as many Americans as possible.

 

Give me examples from the last 4 years of non-Muslim terrorist activity.

 

As for your last sentence you need to reread my post. It's not an issue of looking for suspicious activity or not (that won't be neglected). It's about targeting those in this new era of terrorism that are more likely to be suspects instead of every 5th person in line.

889532[/snapback]

 

ELF, Basques

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Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

888418[/snapback]

 

Predictable and typical response. You will need to give more evidence than that.

 

A lot has changed in ten years I'm afraid.

888886[/snapback]

 

It's a predictable response because unlike your assertion, it's true. Are you seriously doubting that the OK City bombings weren't done by white males? More to the point, perhaps you are the one that should provide evidence of your absolute statement that all terrorists are Muslims.

 

By the way, Eric Rudolph says hi.

 

What makes you think they will neglect suspicious activity?

 

I think the point here is that our resources would be used more intelligently if we targeted those by race rather than random searching of every 5th person in line.

888896[/snapback]

I think the point is it our resources would be used more intelligently if we targeted those exhibiting suspicous behavior instead of those who happen to be of a certain race. :banghead

888991[/snapback]

 

First of all as I said in the post-September 11th world there is a new breed of terrorism. This isn't 10 years ago. There is a culture of extremists present that want to kill as many Americans as possible.

 

Give me examples from the last 4 years of non-Muslim terrorist activity.

 

As for your last sentence you need to reread my post. It's not an issue of looking for suspicious activity or not (that won't be neglected). It's about targeting those in this new era of terrorism that are more likely to be suspects instead of every 5th person in line.

889532[/snapback]

 

ELF, Basques

889666[/snapback]

 

 

 

Hmmm Does anyone know a large number of terrorists are from the philippines. That is a highly muslim country that happens to have an asia look to much of the populace. They also rather hate the US for our imperialism over their country for years and well massacres we did to them.

 

So basically we need to racial profile all asians, blacks, middle eastern folks, irish (after all the IRA), did I miss anyone else?

 

Welcome to American, land of the free and home of the braves. Place of freedom for the world.

 

Give me your sick, give me your hungry, give me your tired...

 

Well I guess we can just toss up a Nazi symbol and put up a dont tread on me flag.

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Hmmm Does anyone know a large number of terrorists are from the philippines. That is a highly muslim country that happens to have an asia look to much of the populace. They also rather hate the US for our imperialism over their country for years and well massacres we did to them.

 

So basically we need to racial profile all asians, blacks, middle eastern folks, irish (after all the IRA), did I miss anyone else?

 

That sound logic has been repeated over and over again yet is continually ignored by the pro-racial profiling folks

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The problem with racial profiling, especially with publicizing it, is that it will show people that don't fit the terrorist stereotype that they might be able to get away with crimes.

 

For instance, if some wackjob white elderly lady knows that only middle-eastern looking people will be searched[/b], then that will make her take her chances going through a search point with a bomb in her purse. Now I realize that example is VERY unlikely, but you get the idea...

888244[/snapback]

 

 

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

887407[/snapback]

What an ignorant statement. Of course all terrorists AREN'T Muslims. Who was responsible for the Oklahoma City?

 

Racial profiling isn't the answer. Giving up our civil liberties isn't the answer.

 

Profiling based on race is stupid...profiling based on suspicous behavior is smart.

888418[/snapback]

 

Exactly what I think.

 

I really have a fear that domestic terrorism will rise in the next 5-10 years, especially if we pay less attention to the home-grown whackos, and guys like McVeigh.888436[/snapback]

 

This is not all or nothing, people.

 

racial profiling

 

Racial profiling is the use of race as one consideration in suspect profiling or other law enforcement practices.

 

Advocates are divided on the degree to which race should be considered a factor.

http://www.answers.com/topic/racial-profiling-2

 

Since we've now established that "racial profiling" simply denotes using race as one consideration among many (e.g. "suspicious" behavior, gender, age, location, etc.--all of which are acceptable and consistently used profiling criteria), we can now move on to a hypothetical scenario:

 

In a suburb of Kansas City, a screener notices 150 suspicious-looking people during a given one-hour shift. He only has time to grab 15.

 

Again, since this is a KC suburb, let's say this is the breakdown of those 150 hypothetical, suspicious-looking people:

 

10 old, demented senior citizens

40 miscellaneous middle-aged people

20 miscellaneous young women

15 young black men

40 young white men

15 young latino men

3 young asian men

1 young arab man

5 wild little boys with ADD

1 partridge in a pear tree

 

Do you honestly think the probability of picking that one young arab man should be no higher than the probability of picking one particular young white man? Is simply considering the subject's race when making a decision really that stupid and counterproductive?

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Give me examples from the last 4 years of non-Muslim terrorist activity.

 

 

Basque separatists in Spain/France (ETA?). IRA. In Italy we have a group called Brigate Rosse that carry out political assassinations, in the 70's they often used car bombs and what not. The colombian drug lords I suppose would also be considered terrorists (kidnappings, murders, drug trafficking)...the list can go on forever. There are a lot of terrorist organizations, and not all of them are muslim.

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