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Marlins Tidbit


buccanes
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he wrote about the value of young pitching and at the end had this nice tidbit about the fish

 

 

"You want to have a chance to win, you'd better have starting pitching," says the Angels' renowned pitching coach Bud Black. And if you want it, you'd better be prepared to pay a price.

 

Just as important, you'd better hold onto Felix Hernandez, Francisco Liriano, Joe Blanton, Kyle Davies, Chuck James, Sowers, McGowan, Papelbon, Lester, Cain, Billingsley, Zach Duke, Brandon McCarthy....

 

"In two years," says one NL GM, "see the worth of what Admin Beinfest has stockpiled in Florida. He will be able to get whatever he wants with all the pitching he has."

 

:thumbup

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Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Not if Vargas and Olsen progress like we'd like and 1 or 2 of the millions of pitchers we have in the minors step up... I don't think its a stretch to say that at all.

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Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Willingham, Hermida, Jacobs and especially Cabs have all already had a taste of the MLB, so it's not like we're putting a bunch of inexperienced players on the field. Willis, Vargas and Olsen already have experience (Olsen not as much, but still).

 

If you look at the difference between 1998 and 2006, it's that we have a little more experience with the youthful players--if that makes any sense.

 

 

The biggest gaping hole in my opinion is the bullpen, but if Bowyer and Resop develop accordingly, that situation should be resolved.

 

 

2008 is still a ways off, but it's not out of the question to suggest we will compete by then

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Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Not if Vargas and Olsen progress like we'd like and 1 or 2 of the millions of pitchers we have in the minors step up... I don't think its a stretch to say that at all.

 

Not sure how good vargas will be (at his best a 2/3 maybe) plus the 2nd year slump even the d-train went through it. I like Olsen more than Vargas but he is essentially a rookie who has durability issues. For every highly touted prospect that made it and lived up to the hype i can name you 4 or 5 who didnt . Maybe our prospects wiill pan out but history says alot of the guys we got wont amount too much

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Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Not if Vargas and Olsen progress like we'd like and 1 or 2 of the millions of pitchers we have in the minors step up... I don't think its a stretch to say that at all.

 

Not sure how good vargas will be (at his best a 2/3 maybe) plus the 2nd year slump even the d-train went through it. I like Olsen more than Vargas but he is essentially a rookie who has durability issues. For every highly touted prospect that made it and lived up to the hype i can name you 4 or 5 who didnt . Maybe our prospects wiill pan out but history says alot of the guys we got wont amount too much

So basically, everything that can go wrong will go wrong? That's the spirit.

 

I love Vargas' attitude. I like where he will be at. A very good #3, no doubt in my mind..

 

We'll see on Olsen, but I like what he brings. He should be very productive by '08 with 2 seasons under his belt.

 

And I agree with you that a lot of prospects don't pan out, which is why I said if 1 or 2 step up out of the group, we will be in great great shape to go along with DTrain... and yes, by 2008.

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Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Willingham, Hermida, Jacobs and especially Cabs have all already had a taste of the MLB, so it's not like we're putting a bunch of inexperienced players on the field. Willis, Vargas and Olsen already have experience (Olsen not as much, but still).

 

If you look at the difference between 1998 and 2006, it's that we have a little more experience with the youthful players--if that makes any sense.

 

 

The biggest gaping hole in my opinion is the bullpen, but if Bowyer and Resop develop accordingly, that situation should be resolved.

 

 

2008 is still a ways off, but it's not out of the question to suggest we will compete by then

 

Baseball more than any other sport is about endurance and Willingham, Hermida, Jacobs, Vargas and Olsen have not gone through the grind of a 162 game season. So i respectfully disagree with you we are fielding a team of rookies. I agree it is better than 1998 that is why i think the Marlins will win 65-70 games. As to 2008 even if everything works out as long as Loria owns the Marlins money will be an issue and I dont think he will able to afford two key pieces Willis and Cabrerra

 

 

 

 

 

Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Not if Vargas and Olsen progress like we'd like and 1 or 2 of the millions of pitchers we have in the minors step up... I don't think its a stretch to say that at all.

 

Not sure how good vargas will be (at his best a 2/3 maybe) plus the 2nd year slump even the d-train went through it. I like Olsen more than Vargas but he is essentially a rookie who has durability issues. For every highly touted prospect that made it and lived up to the hype i can name you 4 or 5 who didnt . Maybe our prospects wiill pan out but history says alot of the guys we got wont amount too much

So basically, everything that can go wrong will go wrong? That's the spirit.

 

No I wouldnt say that I am being realistic, I like alot of our prospects and hope they pan out but we are going to stink for awhile

 

I love Vargas' attitude. I like where he will be at. A very good #3, no doubt in my mind..

 

 

 

We'll see on Olsen, but I like what he brings. He should be very productive by '08 with 2 seasons under his belt.

 

I agree on Olsen but I worry about his endurance , I think he has more talent than Vargas but it is obvious from the cup of tea he had with the marlins arm strength and injuries will be an issue during his first full season

 

And I agree with you that a lot of prospects don't pan out, which is why I said if 1 or 2 step up out of the group, we will be in great great shape to go along with DTrain... and yes, by 2008.

 

If we have a different owner 2009 or 2010 it is going to take time to rebuild this just like it took 5 years from 98 , we just have to get an owner who can afford to keep it together

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he wrote about the value of young pitching and at the end had this nice tidbit about the fish

 

 

"You want to have a chance to win, you'd better have starting pitching," says the Angels' renowned pitching coach Bud Black. And if you want it, you'd better be prepared to pay a price.

 

Just as important, you'd better hold onto Felix Hernandez, Francisco Liriano, Joe Blanton, Kyle Davies, Chuck James, Sowers, McGowan, Papelbon, Lester, Cain, Billingsley, Zach Duke, Brandon McCarthy....

 

"In two years," says one NL GM, "see the worth of what Admin Beinfest has stockpiled in Florida. He will be able to get whatever he wants with all the pitching he has."

 

:thumbup

ya but you know....its just stupid to get all those pitchers....

 

 

 

 

Next year is 2006 saying we are going to be competitive in 07 or 08 is a stretch even talented prospects take a few years to develope 2009 2010 is more like it

 

Willingham, Hermida, Jacobs and especially Cabs have all already had a taste of the MLB, so it's not like we're putting a bunch of inexperienced players on the field. Willis, Vargas and Olsen already have experience (Olsen not as much, but still).

 

If you look at the difference between 1998 and 2006, it's that we have a little more experience with the youthful players--if that makes any sense.

 

 

The biggest gaping hole in my opinion is the bullpen, but if Bowyer and Resop develop accordingly, that situation should be resolved.

 

 

2008 is still a ways off, but it's not out of the question to suggest we will compete by then

 

Baseball more than any other sport is about endurance and Willingham, Hermida, Jacobs, Vargas and Olsen have not gone through the grind of a 162 game season. So i respectfully disagree with you we are fielding a team of rookies. I agree it is better than 1998 that is why i think the Marlins will win 65-70 games. As to 2008 even if everything works out as long as Loria owns the Marlins money will be an issue and I dont think he will able to afford two key pieces Willis and Cabrerra

 

 

Just like it was the huge issue for this team in 2003, 2004 and 2005?

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It will be if i am correct D-Train will be a free agent in 08 (i think) and Cabby in 09 (i think) with baseball economics the way they are both of them are going to get huge contracts (if they keep it up) and if Loria has to keep payroll low I dont see how we keep both. I think they are KEY ingredients to another title run but you may disagree with me

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cabrera and willis should both hit free agency the same year, which i believe would be the 2009 offeseason.

 

no actually Willis gets free agency one year before Cabrera

If Miguel had come on the team about a month later (in July), they would have been a year apart. But so far, they are both at 3 years service time. I don't know how many service days on the active roster constitutes a 'full season', but they both had enough in '03.

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Willis is a Super Two while Cabrera is not, so Dontrelle will hit the free agent market following the 2008 season while the Fish's rights to Miguel do not end until after the 2009 season.

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Willis is a Super Two while Cabrera is not, so Dontrelle will hit the free agent market following the 2008 season while the Fish's rights to Miguel do not end until after the 2009 season.

 

I thought the Super Two entitled him to four years of arbitration, but no change to the free agency date, looking around the web, most appear to say 2009.

 

EDIT: Just found this

 

Q: When does a player become eligible for salary arbitration?

A: A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a "Super Two" and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

 

(From Players Association)

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Willis is a Super Two while Cabrera is not, so Dontrelle will hit the free agent market following the 2008 season while the Fish's rights to Miguel do not end until after the 2009 season.

 

I thought the Super Two entitled him to four years of arbitration, but no change to the free agency date, looking around the web, most appear to say 2009.

 

EDIT: Just found this

 

Q: When does a player become eligible for salary arbitration?

A: A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a "Super Two" and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

 

(From Players Association)

Sounds like Cabs would be a Super TWo as well, no? He played at least 86 days in '03

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Willis, who won't be eligible for free agency until after 2008

From the Herald article concerning Willis and Cabrera's opinions towards the team next season, posted by Hotcorner and found originally here.

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No it would appear he isn't in the top 17 percent of those in the 'pool' for super two status.

 

I'm thorougly confused. He's in the top 17% of everyone in the MLB, let alone his 'pool'.

 

Does someone want to further explain 'why' Cabrera and D Train are different year FA's, or are we goin to have to piece it together?

 

 

edit: ahh...Does it mean top 17% of service time? In that case, ok.

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