While not "binding" it is highly persuasive.

 

Florida law has a category for "blight" when it comes to condemnation for redevelopment. An old landfill outside of the urban service area of a County will not constitute a "blighted" area. Plus, any condemnation that would result in the government "flipping" the land to a private developer will definitely make its way to the Supremes as violative of the fourth and fourteenth amendments (and the case law would support such a case, i.e., Kelo and the Hawaii case referenced in Kelo).

While not "binding" it is highly persuasive.

 

Florida law has a category for "blight" when it comes to condemnation for redevelopment. An old landfill outside of the urban service area of a County will not constitute a "blighted" area. Plus, any condemnation that would result in the government "flipping" the land to a private developer will definitely make its way to the Supremes as violative of the fourth and fourteenth amendments (and the case law would support such a case, i.e., Kelo and the Hawaii case referenced in Kelo).

 

 

I am not totally sure about this, but the SCOTA came out with a decision this past year saying that local and state government could employ eminent domain to take land for private economic redevelopment. Don't quote me on that, but I think I saw it on the news and a few of my fellow students discussed it.

This rehashes a number of things we already know, but there are some other bits I found interesting.

 

Marlins discuss sites for ballpark in Hialeah

By Joe Capozzi

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Tuesday, January 31, 2006

 

Marlins President David Samson discussed two potential ballpark sites with Hialeah Mayor Julio Robaina on Monday and said they will meet again next month to determine if the team eventually can move there.

 

Samson characterized the hour-long meeting at Hialeah City Hall as "a preliminary get-together" and said the team will visit two other cities by March. He would not identify them, but one is believed to be Charlotte, N.C.

 

Samson also said the Marlins will explore other options in South Florida, including a possible deal with the city of Homestead or a private party that might want to build a stadium in north Broward County.

 

He hinted that the team could have conversations with "Broward and Palm Beach (County) entities" before the team completes its site tours in May, but he would not elaborate.

 

Since Major League Baseball granted the Marlins permission in November to explore relocation, the Marlins have visited San Antonio and Portland, Ore.

 

Team officials visited Las Vegas in December 2004. Samson said the team plans to go to seven cities in all.

 

But Robaina said he was optimistic that the Marlins, who initiated the talks, will wind up in Hialeah, which is northwest of downtown Miami.

 

"They showed positive intent to look at Hialeah and decided they want to continue the process,'' Robaina said. "The door was open for them to say, 'No, we have no interest,' but that wasn't the case."

 

The city will conduct studies to determine if existing roads can support a new ballpark at either of two privately owned sites: the Hialeah Park horse track and a 2,000-acre tract between Florida's Turnpike and Interstate 75.

 

Robaina said he prefers the latter site because of its location between two major highways. But he said the Hialeah Park site, which hasn't hosted a horse race since 2001, "is attractive because it could give it that Chicago-Wrigley Field look.''

 

Samson and Robaina said there was no discussion Monday about Hialeah contributing money to the project.

 

But Samson said a stadium would cost at least $430 million. Miami-Dade officials had planned to help pay for a stadium next to the Orange Bowl and have said they would consider a Hialeah site.

 

Samson said there is time pressure: "We'd have to start gearing up and going forward in the next five months... in order to open in 2010.''

 

The Marlins' lease at Dolphins Stadium will keep them there for at least two more seasons. By using one-year options, they could stay through 2010.

 

A move to Hialeah would make going to a Marlins game less convenient for many fans in Broward, not to mention Palm Beach County.

 

"We've been looking and working on this project since 2002, and what we've realized is there is no perfect site in South Florida," Samson said. "Previous ownership had always thought maybe there was a perfect site or what they thought was perfect.

 

"We've discovered now that our best chance and the best chance of baseball staying in South Florida is get a stadium built somewhere and making it work. Making it work with the surrounding community and educating the fans on how to get to and from whatever location it is."

 

Major League Baseball officials have talked with Miami-Dade officials about helping to pay for the project.

 

According to Samson, Bob DuPuy, the league's chief operating officer, said baseball will get more involved in the Marlins' ballpark quest once the Washington Nationals complete their plans for a new ballpark.

 

"Every time (DuPuy) speaks to the county, he conveys disappointment that a deal is not done and their desire is to have the Marlins stay in South Florida, which is our desire, too," Samson said. "And the realization is that if the team does leave, do not expect a team to come back. These are not idle threats any more."

 

Source --http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...RLINS_0131.html

Northern Broward, eh

I am not totally sure about this, but the SCOTA came out with a decision this past year saying that local and state government could employ eminent domain to take land for private economic redevelopment. Don't quote me on that, but I think I saw it on the news and a few of my fellow students discussed it.

 

 

That is true, the government could employ eminent domain to take land for private economic redevelopment, BUT ONLY IF THE AREA IN WHICH THE PROPERTY LIES WAS PART OF AN OVERALL PLAN FOR REDEVELOPMENT ADOPTED BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (i.e., in a Florida example, a CRA). Government, however, cannot condemn random property only to serve as a real estate broker for richer developers, however. It was that notion that the Court found noxious in Kelo.

When I grow up I want to be just like you.

 

You seem to know a lot of big words.

Why would Hialeah have to employ eminent domain? Buying land is possible.

Why would Hialeah have to employ eminent domain? Buying land is possible.

 

All the popular cities are doing it..

The current owners are already developers, what stops the city, county, and team from including them and their land in this?

Why would Hialeah have to employ eminent domain? Buying land is possible.

The current owners are already developers, what stops the city, county, and team from including them and their land in this?

 

 

CASH, MONEY, DOLLAR DOLLAR BILL Y'ALL!!!!

 

A stadium will NOT be a profitable venture for either landowner as opposed to what could be had in the open market.

I am pretty sure that is not permitted in Florida to take land in eminent domain for private development. Eminent domain is only permitted for the public good, such as widening raods, etc.

If Codina is open to development including a Marlins Ballpark in two locations (that I know of) at Dolphins Stadium and around the Orange Bowl, why would he be against doing it at this Hialeah location?

If Codina is open to development including a Marlins Ballpark in two locations (that I know of) at Dolphins Stadium and around the Orange Bowl, why would he be against doing it at this Hialeah location?

 

 

I was going to mention that too. At least he's shown he has some interest in being involved with the Marlins.

If Codina is open to development including a Marlins Ballpark in two locations (that I know of) at Dolphins Stadium and around the Orange Bowl, why would he be against doing it at this Hialeah location?

 

 

I was going to mention that too. At least he's shown he has some interest in being involved with the Marlins.

 

Yes, boys, but at what a price? Armando Codina is not going to act out of the kindness of his heart because he may love baseball. Codina cares only about one thing on earth, Armando Codina's finances. Any deal with Codina may have the same impediments that any deal with Huizenga would have, basically, what's in it for Armando Codina. These guys didn't get rich by being "nice".

Codina has also shown interest at Dolphin Mall....the land next door was for a theme park that never happened.

 

If Codina owns the land, it should get interesting.

 

Yes, boys, but at what a price? Armando Codina is not going to act out of the kindness of his heart because he may love baseball. Codina cares only about one thing on earth, Armando Codina's finances. Any deal with Codina may have the same impediments that any deal with Huizenga would have, basically, what's in it for Armando Codina. These guys didn't get rich by being "nice".

 

Codina can now sell condos and townhomes for $300-400k at the Ballpark Village rather than $200-350k at the Former Dade County Dump now in Hialeah.

a private party that might want to build a stadium in north Broward County.

 

Delicous

I am not totally sure about this, but the SCOTA came out with a decision this past year saying that local and state government could employ eminent domain to take land for private economic redevelopment. Don't quote me on that, but I think I saw it on the news and a few of my fellow students discussed it.

 

 

That is true, the government could employ eminent domain to take land for private economic redevelopment, BUT ONLY IF THE AREA IN WHICH THE PROPERTY LIES WAS PART OF AN OVERALL PLAN FOR REDEVELOPMENT ADOPTED BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (i.e., in a Florida example, a CRA). Government, however, cannot condemn random property only to serve as a real estate broker for richer developers, however. It was that notion that the Court found noxious in Kelo.

 

Well, do a CRA then. It's not hard to comply with the law. They can do it.

It might be a good idea if we all stopped playing lawyer and listen to what the people here who are lawyers are telling us.

 

Besides that this idea that somehow eminent domain is the way this deal gets down is foolish and unthoughtout. Using eminent domain would only slow the progress of a new stadium, not accelerate it. By the time you get appraisals, negotiate, renegotiate, and then go through a lengthy legal process because the property owner has almost nothing to lose by going to court especially with property scarce and values increasing everyday, you're looking at breaking ground in 2010 or beyond. These things take on a life of their own.

 

In Kelo for example, this thing dragged on from 2000-2005. Does anyone really think the Marlins are going to gamble how an eminent court case might play itself out in 2011?

 

That's not what any of the parties here want. Certainly not the Marlins.

 

What you need here is a plan that everyone can buy into quickly and neatly. That's why, even with all its attendant problems of the two sites mentioned, Peerless and the Hialeah racetrack, the latter is the preferred site if expediency is the goal. Amelia Earhart Park might also work for the same reason but I suspect the tree huggers and green space junkies in Miami-Dade may put up quite an argument on that one. And there's the issue building a stadium adjacent to an airport that services commercial traffic, think 9/11.

 

I drove around the racetrack site today...if there were ever an area that screamed out for an economic injection ala a professional baseball stadium that's it. How the hell you get people in and out of there is another question but if you're looking for a big chunk of land without all the problems building on a landfill that sits outside the UDB, the racetrack site seems to about as good as you're going to find.

 

Could a deal be fashioned quickly with an Armando Codina? Perhaps but since the land is outside the UDB you know it has to be approved in Tallahassee, need I say more? And I have to agree with SoFlaFish here that Codina is not going to trade land (his meat and potatoes as a builder) for a sack full of magic beans or a handful of box seats or anything less than 100% of what the land is worth +++.

 

I think the Marlins keep looking. If Hialeah is a willing partner, great, but they would be crazy to not seek out 50+ acres somewhere else at the same time.

Well, do a CRA then. It's not hard to comply with the law. They can do it.

 

 

NOPE. The "Hialeah Heights" property doesn't qualify as an area eligible for the creation of a CRA

 

163.335 Findings and declarations of necessity.--

 

(1) It is hereby found and declared that there exist in counties and municipalities of the state slum and blighted areas which constitute a serious and growing menace, injurious to the public health, safety, morals, and welfare of the residents of the state; that the existence of such areas contributes substantially and increasingly to the spread of disease and crime, constitutes an economic and social liability imposing onerous burdens which decrease the tax base and reduce tax revenues, substantially impairs or arrests sound growth, retards the provision of housing accommodations, aggravates traffic problems, and substantially hampers the elimination of traffic hazards and the improvement of traffic facilities; and that the prevention and elimination of slums and blight is a matter of state policy and state concern in order that the state and its counties and municipalities shall not continue to be endangered by areas which are focal centers of disease, promote juvenile delinquency, and consume an excessive proportion of its revenues because of the extra services required for police, fire, accident, hospitalization, and other forms of public protection, services, and facilities.

 

(2) It is further found and declared that certain slum or blighted areas, or portions thereof, may require acquisition, clearance, and disposition subject to use restrictions, as provided in this part, since the prevailing condition of decay may make impracticable the reclamation of the area by conservation or rehabilitation; that other areas or portions thereof may, through the means provided in this part, be susceptible of conservation or rehabilitation in such a manner that the conditions and evils enumerated may be eliminated, remedied, or prevented; and that salvageable slum and blighted areas can be conserved and rehabilitated through appropriate public action as herein authorized and the cooperation and voluntary action of the owners and tenants of property in such areas.

 

(3) It is further found and declared that the powers conferred by this part are for public uses and purposes for which public money may be expended and the power of eminent domain and police power exercised, and the necessity in the public interest for the provisions herein enacted is hereby declared as a matter of legislative determination.

 

(4) It is further found that coastal resort and tourist areas or portions thereof which are deteriorating and economically distressed due to building density patterns, inadequate transportation and parking facilities, faulty lot layout, or inadequate street layout, could, through the means provided in this part, be revitalized and redeveloped in a manner that will vastly improve the economic and social conditions of the community.

 

(5) It is further found and declared that the preservation or enhancement of the tax base from which a taxing authority realizes tax revenues is essential to its existence and financial health; that the preservation and enhancement of such tax base is implicit in the purposes for which a taxing authority is established; that tax increment financing is an effective method of achieving such preservation and enhancement in areas in which such tax base is declining; that community redevelopment in such areas, when complete, will enhance such tax base and provide increased tax revenues to all affected taxing authorities, increasing their ability to accomplish their other respective purposes; and that the preservation and enhancement of the tax base in such areas through tax increment financing and the levying of taxes by such taxing authorities therefor and the appropriation of funds to a redevelopment trust fund bears a substantial relation to the purposes of such taxing authorities and is for their respective purposes and concerns. This subsection does not apply in any jurisdiction where the community redevelopment agency validated bonds as of April 30, 1984.

 

(6) It is further found and declared that there exists in counties and municipalities of the state a severe shortage of housing affordable to residents of low or moderate income, including the elderly; that the existence of such condition affects the health, safety, and welfare of the residents of such counties and municipalities and retards their growth and economic and social development; and that the elimination or improvement of such condition is a proper matter of state policy and state concern and is for a valid and desirable public purpose.

 

The "Hialeah Heights" site is not "blighted" and as a matter of fact, isn't even "urban" because there is no urban infrastructure out there as it is outside of the UDB. However, the "Hialeah Park" site is prime for CRA status. However, Marlins2003 is right. A CRA and eminent domain is not a cure all. I represented a client whose three properties were being condemned by the Boynton Beach CRA. A year and a half has gone by (I've since left the firm) and that land has not been condemned by the City. We went back and forth with the CRA haggling over prices, and we're talking about a tiny vacant lot, an old church building, and a Quik-E-Mart all in the slums of Boynton Beach. Can you imagine what the owner of Hialeah Park will demand for the right to use a portion of his property, a property that (1) has National Historic Designation and (2) has potential for eventually becoming a para-mutel with slots!

 

I'm not trying to poo-poo this idea. Nobody would like to see a Major League Baseball team in Hialeah more than me. I was born and raised there for heaven's sake (born in Hialeah Hospital, lived in West Hialeah, went to Immaculate Conception, learned to swim at Milander Pool, etc.). But coming up with a stadium deal is very complex and not a case of "git r dun". Trust me on this, I'm "in" that business....

I'm not trying to poo-poo this idea. Nobody would like to see a Major League Baseball team in Hialeah more than me. I was born and raised there for heaven's sake (born in Hialeah Hospital, lived in West Hialeah, went to Immaculate Conception, learned to swim at Milander Pool, etc.). But coming up with a stadium deal is very complex and not a case of "git r dun". Trust me on this, I'm "in" that business....

 

 

Thanks for the breaking news. :thumbup

 

I forgot about the last 4-5 years.

If Codina is open to development including a Marlins Ballpark in two locations (that I know of) at Dolphins Stadium and around the Orange Bowl, why would he be against doing it at this Hialeah location?

 

 

I was going to mention that too. At least he's shown he has some interest in being involved with the Marlins.

 

Yes, boys, but at what a price? Armando Codina is not going to act out of the kindness of his heart because he may love baseball. Codina cares only about one thing on earth, Armando Codina's finances. Any deal with Codina may have the same impediments that any deal with Huizenga would have, basically, what's in it for Armando Codina. These guys didn't get rich by being "nice".

 

Quite true... and I didn't really intend to express excitement there.... We're grasping for straws here I guess.

Well, do a CRA then. It's not hard to comply with the law. They can do it.

 

 

NOPE. The "Hialeah Heights" property doesn't qualify as an area eligible for the creation of a CRA

 

163.335 Findings and declarations of necessity.--

 

(1) It is hereby found and declared that there exist in counties and municipalities of the state slum and blighted areas which constitute a serious and growing menace, injurious to the public health, safety, morals, and welfare of the residents of the state; that the existence of such areas contributes substantially and increasingly to the spread of disease and crime, constitutes an economic and social liability imposing onerous burdens which decrease the tax base and reduce tax revenues, substantially impairs or arrests sound growth, retards the provision of housing accommodations, aggravates traffic problems, and substantially hampers the elimination of traffic hazards and the improvement of traffic facilities; and that the prevention and elimination of slums and blight is a matter of state policy and state concern in order that the state and its counties and municipalities shall not continue to be endangered by areas which are focal centers of disease, promote juvenile delinquency, and consume an excessive proportion of its revenues because of the extra services required for police, fire, accident, hospitalization, and other forms of public protection, services, and facilities.

 

(2) It is further found and declared that certain slum or blighted areas, or portions thereof, may require acquisition, clearance, and disposition subject to use restrictions, as provided in this part, since the prevailing condition of decay may make impracticable the reclamation of the area by conservation or rehabilitation; that other areas or portions thereof may, through the means provided in this part, be susceptible of conservation or rehabilitation in such a manner that the conditions and evils enumerated may be eliminated, remedied, or prevented; and that salvageable slum and blighted areas can be conserved and rehabilitated through appropriate public action as herein authorized and the cooperation and voluntary action of the owners and tenants of property in such areas.

 

(3) It is further found and declared that the powers conferred by this part are for public uses and purposes for which public money may be expended and the power of eminent domain and police power exercised, and the necessity in the public interest for the provisions herein enacted is hereby declared as a matter of legislative determination.

 

(4) It is further found that coastal resort and tourist areas or portions thereof which are deteriorating and economically distressed due to building density patterns, inadequate transportation and parking facilities, faulty lot layout, or inadequate street layout, could, through the means provided in this part, be revitalized and redeveloped in a manner that will vastly improve the economic and social conditions of the community.

 

(5) It is further found and declared that the preservation or enhancement of the tax base from which a taxing authority realizes tax revenues is essential to its existence and financial health; that the preservation and enhancement of such tax base is implicit in the purposes for which a taxing authority is established; that tax increment financing is an effective method of achieving such preservation and enhancement in areas in which such tax base is declining; that community redevelopment in such areas, when complete, will enhance such tax base and provide increased tax revenues to all affected taxing authorities, increasing their ability to accomplish their other respective purposes; and that the preservation and enhancement of the tax base in such areas through tax increment financing and the levying of taxes by such taxing authorities therefor and the appropriation of funds to a redevelopment trust fund bears a substantial relation to the purposes of such taxing authorities and is for their respective purposes and concerns. This subsection does not apply in any jurisdiction where the community redevelopment agency validated bonds as of April 30, 1984.

 

(6) It is further found and declared that there exists in counties and municipalities of the state a severe shortage of housing affordable to residents of low or moderate income, including the elderly; that the existence of such condition affects the health, safety, and welfare of the residents of such counties and municipalities and retards their growth and economic and social development; and that the elimination or improvement of such condition is a proper matter of state policy and state concern and is for a valid and desirable public purpose.

 

The "Hialeah Heights" site is not "blighted" and as a matter of fact, isn't even "urban" because there is no urban infrastructure out there as it is outside of the UDB. However, the "Hialeah Park" site is prime for CRA status. However, Marlins2003 is right. A CRA and eminent domain is not a cure all. I represented a client whose three properties were being condemned by the Boynton Beach CRA. A year and a half has gone by (I've since left the firm) and that land has not been condemned by the City. We went back and forth with the CRA haggling over prices, and we're talking about a tiny vacant lot, an old church building, and a Quik-E-Mart all in the slums of Boynton Beach. Can you imagine what the owner of Hialeah Park will demand for the right to use a portion of his property, a property that (1) has National Historic Designation and (2) has potential for eventually becoming a para-mutel with slots!

 

I'm not trying to poo-poo this idea. Nobody would like to see a Major League Baseball team in Hialeah more than me. I was born and raised there for heaven's sake (born in Hialeah Hospital, lived in West Hialeah, went to Immaculate Conception, learned to swim at Milander Pool, etc.). But coming up with a stadium deal is very complex and not a case of "git r dun". Trust me on this, I'm "in" that business....

 

SoFlafish ...It's refreshing to hear a former Hialeah native done good. You seem very knowledgable about this. Eventhough the site was designated a historic landmark...could the stadium be built on the surrounding grounds of the track?

SoFlafish ...It's refreshing to hear a former Hialeah native done good. You seem very knowledgable about this. Eventhough the site was designated a historic landmark...could the stadium be built on the surrounding grounds of the track?

 

 

Yes, I believe the Historic Designation only prohibits actual demolition/remodeling of the historic grandstands without permits from the State and Federal authorities. The other parts of the property that have not been designated as historic can be redeveloped (i.e., the stalls, parking area, training areas).

Made the thread title more Hialeah. :cool