Apologies if someone posted it already, there's been so many Conine threads lately it's hard to keep track. Anyway up to now I hadn't seen any specifics, so here's the numbers.

 

Here's what his contract with Baltimore looked like:

2003: $4.25 million

2004: $4.75 million

2005: Team option for $4.75 million or 250K buyout

 

The Fish have reworked his contract. For starters, the Marlins are paying a "portion" of his 2003 salary. (Whether it's just a month's worth I'm not sure)

 

The Marlins will pay Conine 6 million over the next 2 years here:

2004: $3 million

2005: $3 million

What a waste of money. They could've had Matt Stairs, Brian Buchanan, Reggie Sanders, or John VanderWal for a fraction of that.

they tried to get both Sanders and Vander Wal, Fry.

 

Brian Buchanan??

What a great value. Thank god they didn't waste money on a slugs like Matt Stairs, Brian Buchanan, Reggie Sanders, or John VanderWal.

 

:thumbup

I'd rather we put that money towards keeping Lee

I'd rather we put that money towards keeping Lee

It looks like that scenario is getting less and less likely.

Brian Buchanan??

 

OF for the Padres currently hitting .264/.355/.466. Put him in a platoon situation with someone that can hit righties real well (like Stairs), and you have a very good OF for less than $1 million with no long-term obligation.

What a great value. Thank god they didn't waste money on a slugs like Matt Stairs, Brian Buchanan, Reggie Sanders, or John VanderWal.

 

Out of that group, plus Conine, guess who is performing the worst this year?

 

You guessed it: Conine.

 

Out of that group, plus Conine, guess who makes the most money?

 

You guessed it: Conine (more than Stairs, Sanders, Buchanan, and Vander Wal combined).

 

Out of that group, plus Conine, guess who is signed beyond this year?

 

You guessed it: Conine.

I'd rather we put that money towards keeping Lee

 

The Herald suggested today Lee might be worth $8-9 million next year through arbitation, or if you extrapolate it out roughly $18-20 million over 2 years (a number on its face I find outrageous and pointing to everything that's wrong with ML baseball). So the Marlins, having a much better idea than we do when Jason Stokes might be ready, have signed Conine for $6 million over the same period.

 

Seems like good fiscal management to me. I think Conine's glovework was proven yesterday, he's no Dick Stuart (Mr. Stonehands as he was nicknamed in Boston) and he'll provide, overall (less homeruns, more hits, sacs and rbis) an equivalent bat. Lemmesee, six million or twenty million? Hmm, I'll take the six million Johnny to block. :mischief2

 

It's no secret that the Marlins must jettison (hopefully through trades) several players to remain economically viable. The obvious choices are Lee and Encarncion and either Urbina or Looper.

 

And btw, you do realize if the Fish somehow or another win the wildcard you can pencil-in Beinfest as GM of the year.

the problem is the Marlins' inconsistency. They are willing to give up to top pitching prospects, but are intent on keeping Conine at 1B until Stokes (a prospect) is ready?

 

Interesting.

The Herald suggested today Lee might be worth $8-9 million next year through arbitation, or if you extrapolate it out roughly $18-20 million over 2 years (a number on its face I find outrageous and pointing to everything that's wrong with ML baseball). So the Marlins, having a much better idea than we do when Jason Stokes might be ready, have signed Conine for $6 million over the same period.

 

Seems like good fiscal management to me. I think Conine's glovework was proven yesterday, he's no Dick Stuart (Mr. Stonehands as he was nicknamed in Boston) and he'll provide, overall (less homeruns, more hits, sacs and rbis) an equivalent bat. Lemmesee, six million or twenty million? Hmm, I'll take the six million Johnny to block. :mischief2

 

It's no secret that the Marlins must jettison (hopefully through trades) several players to remain economically viable. The obvious choices are Lee and Encarncion and either Urbina or Looper.

 

And btw, you do realize if the Fish somehow or another win the wildcard you can pencil-in Beinfest as GM of the year.

 

That figure thrown out by the Herald is preposterous. Derrek Lee is a (barely) above-average offensive 1B, and would never get awarded $8 million by an arbitrator when comparable (or better) players like Brad Fullmer, David Ortiz, and Brian Daubach couldn't even get $2 million out on the open market. I agree that I wouldn't want to risk arbitration on Lee (because he'd be lucky to get more than he makes now on the FA market), but I also wouldn't give Conine $3 million, either, when you could probably pick-up comparable (or better) players like Daubach, Stairs, or Eric Karros for half of that. Two wrongs don't make a right. .800+ OPS 1Bs are one of the most easily-replaceable types of players in baseball.

 

After I-Rod and Encarnacion leave, how much more do the Marlins need to cut from payroll? Those 2 right there remove about $13 million from the payroll. Throw in Urbina, and that's about $17.5 million, which puts the Marlins way down on the salary scale.

why is Encarnacion going anywhere?

 

or is this just speculation?

the problem is the Marlins' inconsistency. They are willing to give up to top pitching prospects, but are intent on keeping Conine at 1B until Stokes (a prospect) is ready?

 

Interesting.

 

They sign the paychecks, its their money, and if that's the choice they make so be it.

 

As for this obsession with Bautista (only a fool would suggest Levinski has potential star-power in the bigs), you don't run a business based on what a guy might do a couple of years down the road IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS. With hundreds of employees, on and off the field, and the onerous lease arrangement the Marlins have at PPS, decisions have to be made that, while uncomfortable (they refused to trade Bautista in July) you have to do what you have to do when tragedy befalls your organization as it did with Lowell.

 

As for Stairs and Vander Wal, neither can play everyday anymore. With 25 man rosters and 30 clubs you can of course find a player (in this case Buchanan) who's stats "look" good. If you want to use stats, let's look at Lenny Harris who is hitting .750 for the Fish. By your thinking we should ten more Lenny Harris' on the team. Foolish? Yes. Anymore foolish than comparing Conine to Stairs and Vander Wal? No.

why is Encarnacion going anywhere?

 

or is this just speculation?

 

Encarnacion is only under a 1-year contract. I don't see why the Marlins should re-sign him, when he's way overpaid.

OF for the Padres currently hitting .264/.355/.466. Put him in a platoon situation with someone that can hit righties real well (like Stairs), and you have a very good OF for less than $1 million with no long-term obligation.

Yeah I know who he is Fry, just stunned that you think he'd be much of an upgrade.

why is Encarnacion going anywhere?

 

or is this just speculation?

Juan makes $3.5 million this year and is estimated to garner somewheres in the vicinity of $5.5 million next year. It's just a matter of doing the math. I like him (he gave my nine year old his first professional ballplayer autograph so on a personal basis, stats and play aside, I love the guy!!!), I love his glove but if we're committed, and I believe we are, to keeping Lowell and trying to at least keep Castillo, other players have to go.

 

You may have a different perspective and think different players will be moved, I'm just speculating and you may have a different idea, which would be equally as valid.

As for Stairs and Vander Wal, neither can play everyday anymore. With 25 man rosters and 30 clubs you can of course find a player (in this case Buchanan) who's stats "look" good. If you want to use stats, let's look at Lenny Harris who is hitting .750 for the Fish. By your thinking we should ten more Lenny Harris' on the team. Foolish? Yes. Anymore foolish than comparing Conine to Stairs and Vander Wal? No.

 

That is a ridiculous comparison. You're comparing a guy (Harris) who's hitting .200/.268/.244 on the year and who average a paltry .684 OPS over the previous 3 seasons to a guy (Stairs) who's hitting .298/.386/.570 (in addition to having a decent .754 OPS vs. lefties this year) and averaging a .790 OPS over the previous 3 seasons and another guy (Vander Wal) who's hitting an .878 OPS off Right-handed pitching this year and has averaged an .882 OPS vs. righties over the previous 3 years and would be excellent in a platoon.

Juan makes $3.5 million this year and is estimated to garner somewheres in the vicinity of $5.5 million next year.

 

Anyone who gives Encarnacion $5 million/year is nuts. The Marlins were nuts to give him $3.5 million.

as has been posted before, they did try & get several other players Fry. Including Reggie Sanders, Jon Vander Wal, and Scott Spezio. I'm sure there were more.

 

Would you rather they have done nothing? Hang our playoff chances on Brian Banks in left field for the rest of the season and maybe the playoffs as well?

as has been posted before, they did try & get several other players Fry.? Including Reggie Sanders, Jon Vander Wal, and Scott Spezio.? I'm sure there were more.

 

Would you rather they have done nothing?? Hang our playoff chances on Brian Banks in left field for the rest of the season and maybe the playoffs as well?

 

I agree that something needed to be done. I see that Sanders were blocked and the VanderWal and Spiezio trades fell through, but I have a hard time believing that there was nothing better than Conine available.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You're comparing a guy (Harris) who's hitting .200/.268/.244 on the year and who average a paltry .684 OPS over the previous 3 seasons to a guy (Stairs) who's hitting .298/.386/.570 (in addition to having a decent .754 OPS vs. lefties this year) and averaging a .790 OPS over the previous 3 seasons and another guy (Vander Wal) who's hitting an .878 OPS off Right-handed pitching this year and has averaged an .882 OPS vs. righties over the previous 3 years and would be excellent in a platoon.

Fry, I said it was a "foolish" comparison. I said so myself. The point I was making was that stats aren't everything, you can point out this players play or some stat he might have, but overall, in the big scheme of things the Marlins appear to have a long term plan and they are executing it.

 

Samson made an interesting point in an interview recently, that he showed Loria his spreadsheet that concluded to keep the team intact in 2004 they would have to average 72,000 per game attendance. Draw what conclusions you will from that but for me it means guys like Lee and Encarncion are gone.

 

On Stairs, in 100 games he's had something like 240 at bats. What does that tell you? It tells me he is no longer (and in fact isn't) an everyday player. That's why I made the tongue in cheek comparison to Harris, who by his own admission is no longer an everyday player, in fact he complained loudly about being forced to play every day in Chicago where he says the Cubs misused him. He says, (paraphrasing) "I'm a pinch-hitter, that's what I do".

like i said....conine gives you options.

 

 

unless lee wants an outrageous salary he will be back.

 

 

i guarantee you people that. but....it lee worth 7-9 million?

 

 

or better...would you pay that much for derrek lee?

 

 

however...for 5 million or for market value...which is actually decreasing for all players not in the superstar range.

Fry, I said it was a "foolish" comparison. I said so myself. The point I was making was that stats aren't everything, you can point out this players play or some stat he might have, but overall, in the big scheme of things the Marlins appear to have a long term plan and they are executing it.

 

Samson made an interesting point in an interview recently, that he showed Loria his spreadsheet that concluded to keep the team intact in 2004 they would have to average 72,000 per game attendance. Draw what conclusions you will from that but for me it means guys like Lee and Encarncion are gone.

 

On Stairs, in 100 games he's had something like 240 at bats. What does that tell you? It tells me he is no longer (and in fact isn't) an everyday player. That's why I made the tongue in cheek comparison to Harris, who by his own admission is no longer an everyday player, in fact he complained loudly about being forced to play every day in Chicago where he says the Cubs misused him. He says, (paraphrasing) "I'm a pinch-hitter, that's what I do".

 

When we're talking bad defensive LF/1Bs, offense is everything, and OPS is the big daddy of offensive statistics. The fact is, Matt Staris OPS is better than Jeff Conine's which makes him better, since they're both old and bring nothing to the table defensively. Matt Stairs wasn't playing everyday because they already had Giles in LF, Sanders in RF, and Randall Simon at 1B. A player can either play or he can't. This stuff about an everyday player vs. a bench player is as much B.S. as relievers needing a defined role/inning to come in. Lenny Harris sucked with the Cubs, because he sucks in general.

 

I don't know what giving up a top pitching prospect and bringing in a guy that nobody wanted (like Conine) shows any sort of long-term planning. They could've gotten plenty of guys on the FA market that would've been just as good as Conine but for a fraction of the cost.

Juan E is definitely overpaid, but who can we replace him with that would provide replacement level stats at this point? We could try Aguila, Padgett, Ambres, or Nunez...did you have any OF's in mind?

unless lee wants an outrageous salary he will be back.

 

So then it's see ya later D. Lee!!!! Have fun being the 2004 version of Cliff Floyd! I'll make sure to vote for ya' as the 2004 overrated and overpaid ex-marlin of the year!

 

5-8 million for D. Lee. That's just flat out Nucking Futs.