September 2, 200323 yr Ok, so from time to time a thread or two (or 20) turns into a debate about the lineup next year. I think now is a great time to go back and touch on what everyone thinks the lineup will look like next year, since the addition of Conine on what the Marlins consider a long-term basis(2 years) changes the landscape significantly. And yes, I still think that Beinfest and Loria are pushing this franchise faster and faster towards the complete trainwreck that will be next year. Difference is I couldn't care less right now considering the standings.
September 2, 200323 yr I think now is a great time to go back and touch on what everyone thinks the lineup will look like next year... I think now is a terrible time to go back and touch on what everyone thinks the lineup will look like next year.... Why don't you worry about the last month of the season? One can not accurately forecast next year util this year is completed. We have the whole off-season to worry about next year. If you are so concerned about the future why not go to to a Detroit board and discuss the future of your hapless Tigers. :mischief2
September 2, 200323 yr There will be changes next year, perhaps very significant ones, but that will not effect the Marlins ability to field a competitive team. Instead of looking at the negative of short term contracts, look at the positives, we have loads of flexability and with another depressed free agent market looming, fans in South Florida will once again be pleasantly surprised by the moves the Marlins make.
September 2, 200323 yr CF - Juan Pierre 2B - Luis Castillo 1B - Jeff Conine 3B - Miguel Cabrera C - Mike Redmond RF - Abraham Nunez LF - Cheap free agent OF like Michael Tucker, Ben Grieve, or Eric Owens SS - Alex Gonzalez
September 2, 200323 yr First things first...Ive been wondering...is that suzy kolber in your sig...and who is she? Next, to the lineup! *CF - Juan Pierre - Signed actually quite nicely in line with his abilities. ZERO power, but getting on base at a current .360 clip with 57 steals. Ranked 15th best defensive OF in the ML. Signed through for two more years (2.3M 04') (3.4M 05') 2004 cost: 2.3M *LF - Cabrera/Conine - We get Cabs for the league minimum (300K) and Conine is signed for two more years at 5M roughly. This position has the biggest question because if we dont re-sign Lowell and trade Lee we have a hole here. Possible stop gaps include Abe Nunez, Chris Aguila, Matt Padgett. I'll go with Cabrera here. He actually might get more then the minimum, but Im not sure..so lets say 2004 cost: 700K *RF - Juan Encarnacion - Is playing on a one year deal worth 3.45M and isnt doing anything spectacular to deserve much of a raise, but expect him to sign for 4.5-5.5M per season 2004 cost: 5M *3B - Mike Lowell/Cabrera - I'll go out on a limb and say we sign Mikey for a nice 4yr 35 dollar deal averaging 9M a season roughly. If he comes back healthy he can hold down 3B for the rest of his career with the Fish. 2004 cost: 9M *2B - Hooper/Erickson - Should be an interesting battle in spring training with other characters vying for the same spot, but I believe the organization will go with the cheap option here. Castillo will be non-tendered and head off for a big pay day elsewhere. 2004 cost: 300K *SS - Alex Gonzalez - His incredible downward talespin after his torrid start falls more in line with his career averages. He is looking absolutely putrid at the plate, but still amazes in the field. He made 1.7M this season and there is basically no player challenging him in the minors so look for him to tandem with a new 2B in 04' 2004 cost: 3.2M *1B - Jeff Conine - Should hold down 1B competently until Stokes is ready or if he is ever ready for the job. 2004 cost: 5M *C - Ramon Castro/Mike Redmond - Assuming his legal troubles allow him to play he should provide solid numbers in place of Pudge. If not Remond will probably start in rotation with Matt Treanor or a cheap FA. I'll say we have Castro. 2004 cost: 900K So just for the starting lineup it will cost us 26.4 million ROUGHLY...this doesnt include bench, rotation, or bullpen. Guys can you give me some feedback on my analysis please?
September 2, 200323 yr I agree. Let's hold off on the mass hysteria for now. I've been working on a projected roster, payroll, etc, & all the goodies will be ready for public viewing and lambasting for anyone who cares. But I'm holding off posting it until after the season. No point in worrying about it yet, we're in the thick of a playoff chase. I will say however that I don't think it's the disaster you envision Fillet.
September 2, 200323 yr Author Good thoughts, Shamrock. I don't like having 4 with less than a year MLB experience starting, though. That plus "Automatic Out" Gonzalez means a pathetic offense. And who would protect Lowell/Conine in the lineup?
September 2, 200323 yr Author BTW... It's hometown girl Suzy Kolber. UM grad who worked locally then for ESPN ("Edge NFL match-up, etc.).
September 2, 200323 yr Good thoughts, Shamrock. I don't like having 4 with less than a year MLB experience starting, though. That plus "Automatic Out" Gonzalez means a pathetic offense. And who would protect Lowell/Conine in the lineup? It coincides well with your disaster theory...which I would also tend to side with...Big boppers are Lowell, Conine, Cabs...everyone else MIGHT challenge 10 homers...Im not including Castro because we cant really know.
September 2, 200323 yr Author Speaking of Castro, anyone know his contract status? I catch myself forgetting that although he never plays, he's got what, 3 or 4 years MLB experience now? I fear he may not be as cheap as we all think, provided he's not in Jail by spring training.
September 2, 200323 yr Speaking of Castro, anyone know his contract status? I catch myself forgetting that although he never plays, he's got what, 3 or 4 years MLB experience now? I fear he may not be as cheap as we all think, provided he's not in Jail by spring training. Your about right...3-4 years experience, but he shouldnt cost over a million.
September 2, 200323 yr c--castro, redmond (or a free agent) 1b--lee 2b--hooper/erickson ss--gonzalez 3b--lowell lf--cabrera cf--pierre rf--conine unless lee and/or lowell want outrageous salaries.
September 2, 200323 yr The Herald said Lee was worth 8-9M per season which is just not going to happen. Hes the best defensive 1B in the league, but his offensive skills are above average right now. Hes worth a good 6.5-7M. Its possible that we could keep Lee or Castillo for next season. Could be an interesting debate, but it depends on how much each would cost. Both salaries being equal you have to take the bopper!
September 2, 200323 yr Author unless lee and/or lowell want outrageous salaries LMFAO. Hey Das, you've just been promoted. No longer are you Lieutenant Optomist, you are now Captain Obvious. Lee and Lowell will get huge numbers, that's just the way baseball is today.
September 2, 200323 yr um..... have you been aware of the economic landscape these days fish fillet. teams are unwilling to give hte outrageous salaries as much as they used to. what team has the financial capabilities to pay lowell or lee 9 million a year? question
September 2, 200323 yr good post sham. Here's my comments: 1. conine makes $3 mil a year NOT $5 mil 2. encarnacion won't be here being arb eligible for $5.5 mil. for the purpose of this thread, plug in $2 mill for his replacement, although if Lee goes to baltimore I'd want Gibbons in exchange (and he'd cost $1 mil in 2004). 3. Gonzo will be gone if his bat doesn't heat up bigtime and soon. Look for erickson or hooper (a good SS already) to be there and... 4. use the money from gonzo to keep casitllo. his lingering hip injury will cost him in the FA market and combined with his entire family being here and no state taxes (one of the reasons Conine agree to redo his deal) he will be with the Fisg for at least 2-3 more years. 5. if pudge leaves we can't fill in catcher for less than a mil if Redmond stays. he's a FA. keep in mind that with trade bait like Lee we can expect to pitck up some good player(s) in return. hope these comments make sense to you. again, good post.
September 2, 200323 yr The Free Agent Market isn't what it used to be fellas.....you are all in for a big surprise if you think this roster will self-implode
September 2, 200323 yr castro will still make the league minimum next year unless I'm mistaken. about 375K.
September 2, 200323 yr Considering Lowell and Burnett's injuries, maybe we can resign them for a reduced salary.
September 2, 200323 yr Considering Lowell and Burnett's injuries, maybe we can resign them for a reduced salary. Lowell? Maybe a 100 G's or so less. Burnett? If anything Tommy John will make him more expensive. SEE: Jon Leiber.
September 2, 200323 yr Lowell? Maybe a 100 G's or so less. Burnett? If anything Tommy John will make him more expensive. SEE: Jon Leiber. Lieber didn't sign with the Yankees for that much, because he was considered a recovery project. But for the Yankees, the gains outweigh the costs, and they only paid like 2.3 mil or something. I don't see Burnett's price going up, however.
September 2, 200323 yr To put some perspective on things, its expected that Vlad Guerrero can be had for somewhere around $12 million a year. To reinterate, we are in prime position for the offseason. We hold all the chips thanks to the front office being shrewd enough to get in on the wave of the future, short term contracts. Not to mention how huge it was to get all that money off the books last offseason. We're in excellent shape. Stop worrying about next year and start thinking about October.
September 2, 200323 yr good post sham. Here's my comments: 1. conine makes $3 mil a year NOT $5 mil 2. encarnacion won't be here being arb eligible for $5.5 mil. for the purpose of this thread, plug in $2 mill for his replacement, although if Lee goes to baltimore I'd want Gibbons in exchange (and he'd cost $1 mil in 2004). 3. Gonzo will be gone if his bat doesn't heat up bigtime and soon. Look for erickson or hooper (a good SS already) to be there and... 4. use the money from gonzo to keep casitllo. his lingering hip injury will cost him in the FA market and combined with his entire family being here and no state taxes (one of the reasons Conine agree to redo his deal) he will be with the Fisg for at least 2-3 more years. 5. if pudge leaves we can't fill in catcher for less than a mil if Redmond stays. he's a FA. keep in mind that with trade bait like Lee we can expect to pitck up some good player(s) in return. hope these comments make sense to you. again, good post. *Good points and I wasnt aware of the exact Conine contract...so that reduces it a little. *I also have to agree about the Juan E situation...hes going to be overpaid and is one of the worst everyday RF's in the game. *I'd rather just hang on the A-Gon even though he seems to be a black hole at SS. There wont be anything better on FA market that we can afford and we have nothing of note in the minors. I probablt overpriced him as well. I wanted to err on the side of saftey *I hope we non-tender Redmond in the off-season and sign a cheaper FA or bring up Matt Treanor from Albuquerque. If Castro's legal troubles catch up with him we almost have no choice but to sign Redmond. *I really hope we can acquire a good player for Lee, but I dont think its likely seeing what Atlanta got for Millwood. A good minor leaguer, but nothing ML ready. *Thanks for the feedback...its greatly appreciated. :cool
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