Just finished reading much of the 16 page thread on Gathright for Olsen.

 

Wondering if the consensus here would be any different if Taveras were offered for Olsen.

 

I'm guessing not, but just curious.

 

And, as long as I'm poking and prodding, I didn't see his name come up at all earlier, so am I to assume that you guys are in love with Vargas to the point that you wouldn't consider him in a deal?

 

Stros have been rumored within the last couple of weeks to be working a Taveras for Contreras deal with the White Sox, but those rumors seem to have quieted. Stros, I think, are wanting to supplement the rotation on the chance that Rocket doesn't return. (Fwiw, they have a couple of guys penciled in (E. Astacio and W. Rodirguez), and a couple of top prospects penciled in to challenge (Nieve and Hirsh), and a couple of second-chance prospects (Bucholz and C. Hernandez) penciled in to challenge as well.)

 

So, my mind is wandering around the Marlins situation... a team stockpiled high with pitching prospects that is still looking for a game-tested CF that is on the front end of his career.

 

Interested in your comments/ideas.

Hmm that's an intriguing offer, but it may take more than taveras to pull off this trade.

Vargas is one of the few pitchers we have going into 2006 that is major league ready. I think that's one of the few reasons we won't be dealt.

 

A Tavares for Olsen deal is intriguing though. IMO it's quite fair.

Vargas is one of the few pitchers we have going into 2006 that is major league ready.

 

You seemingly have an abundance of pitchers that are arguably "mlb ready," just not "mlb tested."

 

But that begs the question, if I may, when a team is building so overtly for the future, why wouldn't that team evaluate a Vargas in the long term just like you evaluate Olsen or any other of these pitchers that are worthy of serious consideration..???

 

Put a slightly different way... what does it really matter if a pitcher has 4 months (or so) of mlb experience when there is little anticipation for competing for a pennant this season, and when, next off-season, it is evident that several of these young "untested" pitchers will be "tested" and with only four months less experience than Vargas...???

 

(Not arguing... just interested to more clearly understand the Marlins perspective.)

Vargas has a long term future with the Marlins. He has excellent composure on the mound and knows how to pitch regardless of stuff, something our fireballers from the past (Penny, Burnett, Clement) lacked.

 

As of right now most of us would agree only Olsen, Johnson, Petit and

Sanchez may be stretches fall under the MLB ready category.

It may be that at some time this upcoming season one of the kid pitchers (and I'm including Vargas in this because of your interest and we're talking in the hypothetical anyways) shows enough in the first half of the season that some other team is willing to offer a (re)building block so coveted that we trade that pitcher.

 

But at the same time, while we all know the Marlins won't be a competitive threat this season the team still has to put the best guys it can out there and win as many games as is possible. If the baseball gods smile down on us and we have two or three young guys who prove their worth by the all-star break it wouldn't surprise me to see us trade one of them for some other player we really need.

 

I think one thing that might work against Taveras is his poor strikeout ratio and lack of power but perhaps another season will bring some improvement there. He's certainly a guy for the Marlins to consider as things play themselves out especially if he has a good spring and Preston Wilson wins the job in spite of Taveras' performance.

It may be that at some time this upcoming season one of the kid pitchers (and I'm including Vargas in this because of your interest and we're talking in the hypothetical anyways) shows enough in the first half of the season that some other team is willing to offer a (re)building block so coveted that we trade that pitcher.

 

But at the same time, while we all know the Marlins won't be a competitive threat this season the team still has to put the best guys it can out there and win as many games as is possible. If the baseball gods smile down on us and we have two or three young guys who prove their worth by the all-star break it wouldn't surprise me to see us trade one of them for some other player we really need.

 

I think one thing that might work against Taveras is his poor strikeout ratio and lack of power but perhaps another season will bring some improvement there. He's certainly a guy for the Marlins to consider as things play themselves out especially if he has a good spring and Preston Wilson wins the job in spite of Taveras' performance.

 

 

 

Good post. I guess i haven't thought of the fact that we could potentially make out like bandits if we had a SP to trade after the allstar break....i don't mind us waiting to get max value. But i do believe we need to make a trade for a young CF at some point in the next 1 1/2 years.

I like Lane better than Tavares.

I like Lane better than Tavares.

 

 

the astros arent trading lane though.

 

 

its really this simple.

 

 

bagwell plays and taveras doesnt start. bagwell doesnt play and taveras starts.

 

 

real simple....well as simple as it can get with the complexity of that insurance policy.

Bagwell is done.

I would take Tavares in an instant, although I would like to see us trade someone else besides Olsen for him. We have plenty of other guys.

Vargas is one of the few pitchers we have going into 2006 that is major league ready. I think that's one of the few reasons we won't be dealt.

 

 

Hmm. We??? :lol

I would do Olsen for Taveras with little hesitation.

I'd do it.

 

Especially if it gives Charleton Jimerson a chance at the big club.

Vargas is one of the few pitchers we have going into 2006 that is major league ready. I think that's one of the few reasons we won't be dealt.

 

 

Hmm. We??? :lol

 

:mischief

 

I stand behind my statement.

I'd do it.

 

Especially if it gives Charleton Jimerson a chance at the big club.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sold on him.

So...

 

What say ye...

 

Taveras for Olsen... yea or nay?

 

(My take from an admittedly Astros point of view: Not an option, at least right now. Astros have enough good-to-excellent prospect candidates for the pitching staff. Plus, Taveras is game tested and a known quantity. Olsen is game tested but minimally so. Plus, his elbow situation, while evidently not of great concern if you're the Marlins, would be of some concern at least to any potential suitor for his services. So, the nays have it.)

 

Taveras for Vargas... yea or nay?

 

(My take from an admittedly Astros point of view: Vargas represents a step above the current six candidates for the "Clemens' hole" in the rotation, not because he has greater potential (I could be ignorant on this point, but in my very limited review, I have seen nothing projecting him to be higher than a #2 guy and mostly a #3 guy), but essentially because he has the benefit of about half-a-season of starts. His fall-off over the last month from a 2-something ERA to a 4-something may be of some concern, but even his 4-something represents a better number than what the two guys (Zeke Astacio and Wandy Rodriguez) accumulated over their season by one run-plus. His final strong outing against the Nats was somewhat reassuring. Like Vargas, Taveras was the RotY for his team, and in fact was either #1 or #2 in every League RotY voting out there. Attempting objectivity, it's a trade that doesn't seem to be very far off the mark given both players 2005 accomplishments, and the general projections of both players' careers. Yea.)

I wouldn't trade any of the young pitchers until they have more trade value.

Let me add Vargas' ERA shot up after McKeon let him pitch a CG against Los Angeles. He looked tired for a few starts after that. Vargas was also pitching with a fastball and a slider. He was working on a slider though.

Vargas was also pitching with a fastball and a slider. He was working on a slider though.

 

 

Confused...

 

What are Vargas primary pitches that he throws? Does he not have a third?

Vargas was also pitching with a fastball and a slider. He was working on a slider though.

 

 

Confused...

 

What are Vargas primary pitches that he throws? Does he not have a third?

 

Sorry I didn't proofread.

 

He throws a fastball and a change-up.

 

He is working on a slider but rarely used it, if it all.

He throws a fastball and a change-up.

 

He is working on a slider but rarely used it, if it all.

 

 

Ouch... sounds more like a relief guy, long-term, then -- I mean, just conventionally-speaking.

 

But reputation is that his change-up can be dominant (?).

He throws a fastball and a change-up.

 

He is working on a slider but rarely used it, if it all.

 

 

Ouch... sounds more like a relief guy, long-term, then -- I mean, just conventionally-speaking.

 

But reputation is that his change-up can be dominant (?).

 

His change-up is above average and he has good control of it.

 

If he can develop a good third pitch he would be set.

I'd do it.

 

Especially if it gives Charleton Jimerson a chance at the big club.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sold on him.

 

 

Big fan here - Charleton was a late bloomer at UM, before having a dominant senior season / CWS MVP. You're right - this year is probably his last chance (he did appear briefly as a defensive replacement against the Marlins last September with no at bats).

 

Helluva nice guy with ML calibre speed/defense - just needs to cut down on the Ks.

I used to watch Jimerson here in Lexington when he was playing low-A ball. Indeed, it would be a huge thing if he were able to turn the corner. Evidently the Astros feel the same way or he would have been let go a season or two ago. I'm aware that he spent last off-season getting personal coaching from Tony Gwynn -- if I'm not mistaken, Gwynn's son and Jimerson are good friends or something like that.

 

Ummm... getting back to my highly unscientific polling... any great displeasure with a Taveras/Vargas trade, besides Festa who so proudly displays Vargas' jersey number on his sig line?