I'm really surprised how many people generally have such a low opinion of Juan Pierre.

 

Yeah he doesn't have the best arm, or even average for a CFer, but offensively, especially since the ASG he's put together some compelling numbers. And when the season is over he'll probably have 60 stolen bases and 200 hits, with at or very close to a .300 average after a horrendous first two months.

 

I don't particularly want him back, but let's give the guy his due. 200 hits and 60 SB any season is pretty damn good.

I'm really surprised how many people generally have such a low opinion of Juan Pierre.

 

Yeah he doesn't have the best arm, or even average for a CFer, but offensively, especially since the ASG he's put together some compelling numbers. And when the season is over he'll probably have 60 stolen bases and 200 hits, with at or very close to a .300 average after a horrendous first two months.

 

I don't particularly want him back, but let's give the guy his due. 200 hits and 60 SB any season is pretty damn good.

 

 

It's pretty darn average in context with everything else.

 

200 hits in a season when he's never even walked 60 times in a season for his career is not solid.

 

60 steals when you get thrown out around 20 times a season is not spectacular either.

 

For a player who picks and chooses his spots, the numbers are great, but when you get the whole story, they're underwhelming.

 

Would I be upset if he came back? Not at all, but I don't think he should be on the top of the wish-list, or even in the top 5.

wow.

wow.

 

 

I know, right?

 

75% steal rate.

 

An OBP that should be a batting average for a leadoff hitter (at least the last two seasons).

 

Really just unspectacularly average numbers. (And for the record, I love Juan Pierre and have his jersey, but I'm not blinded by homerism).

 

Plus, we can't forget that any fly ball to him in medium/deep center and runners on second and/or third advance a base without hesitation.

More hits than anyone in the National League.

 

Fifth overall in baseball.

 

Strikes out less than any of the top five in hits by a factor of two.

 

Sixty stolen bases is an achievement no matter how you cut it.

 

Yeah. Wow.

 

Just wow.

More hits than anyone in the National League.

 

Fifth overall in baseball.

 

Strikes out less than any of the top five in hits by a factor of two.

 

Sixty stolen bases is an achievement no matter how you cut it.

 

Yeah. Wow.

 

Just wow.

 

 

And by far the most AB's.

 

The runner up to him in AB's in the NL (Rollins) has almost double the walks.

 

When you get 700 AB's in a season (not plate apperances, at bats) not getting 150-200 hits is almost inexcusable.

 

Put it this way, the leading hitter at the moment (Sanchez) has 556 AB's and 190 hits, or in 34% of his at bats. If he were to have the 669 AB's Pierre does, he'd have 228 hits.

 

Sanchez-190 hits in 556 AB'. Pierre 194 hits in 669 AB's.

 

You'd certainly hope that those extra 113 AB's produced 4 extra hits.

 

You can't pick and choose which numbers strengthen your argument. Pierre's numbers are empty in context of his total performance.

just ridiculous

Will they take Girardi instead?

 

 

 

 

Did Girardi run over your puppy or something?

 

 

You run him into the ground every chance you get?

 

Ramp, how do you feel about getting Pierre back? If I remember correctly you were a big supporter of this before the deadline.

 

Your stance really surprised me.

 

I believe in clubhouse presence as well, but if the last few weeks of Marlins baseball have taught us anything it's that common sense trumps intangibles.

 

 

 

 

Explain then defend that last sentence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reyes isn't a good lead-off hitter either (to whoever mentioned him).

 

And anyone can get 200 empty hits if given enough at bats.

 

 

More hits than anyone in the National League.

 

Fifth overall in baseball.

 

Strikes out less than any of the top five in hits by a factor of two.

 

Sixty stolen bases is an achievement no matter how you cut it.

 

Yeah. Wow.

 

Just wow.

 

Hits don't mean anything for a leadoff hitter if his OBP is below the .360ish range.

 

For a leadoff hitter, OBP > all.

 

 

 

Anyone can get 200 empty hits if given enough at bats????

 

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

 

yeah 200 hit seasons are a dime a dozen penguino.

 

 

Your posts continue to amaze the masses

The talk about Pierre is simply an effort to be realistic. Torii Hunter is not coming. To whomever said why not: The Twins are also contenders and I don't think he has much of a reason to want to leave. If he does, then it's probably something we don't offer (big money and long term deals).

 

JP wouldn't be the answer to all our problems, and I never suggested he lead off. I want him to basically bunt Hanley over all day long. It would be better than wasting Uggla's bat to do it. And he would still be an upgrade in CF.

 

Not saying he would be the team's savior or the best possible choice, but realistically an option, and one that could still help.

 

Obviously if we could get any CFer I wouldn't choose him. Andruw Jones in CF and batting behind Cabrera would be a dream come true, but it didn't happen off waivers and it won't happen now...and most of the big names being tossed around are about as realistic.

horrible reasons :lol Girardi wont be managing next season so we wont have to worry about the retarded decisions to bunt with no outs and good hitters at the plate. I wouldn't mind JP if he came cheaply....but he won't. I'd much rather get a CFer who's service time will be cheap for a good while. Meantime Amezega/Ross platoon is an excellent plan B if said young stuf doesn't pan out.

DO NOT TRIVIALIZE 200 HITS! If we were to resign Pierre he would lead off make no mistake about it! I don't advocate it but you would just have to, Shadez strikes out a little too much but Hanley has potential to be one of the best lead-off batters in the majors in the Johnny Damon mode.

divide hits by plate appearances and then come back to me eddie...

Plz no more Pasta in CF!

:|

Why not throw something nice at Mark Kotsay, and see if the A's will eat some of the remaining contract?

 

He is under contract for the next two years, and hopefully a replacement can be groomed by the end of that time.

divide hits by plate appearances and then come back to me eddie...

 

Pierre does lead the majors in at bat, but Dude, he is also hitting .291 that shouldn't be minimized. There are only 4 players with more hits than Pierre in MLB

Why not throw something nice at Mark Kotsay, and see if the A's will eat some of the remaining contract?

 

He is under contract for the next two years, and hopefully a replacement can be groomed by the end of that time.

 

so wouldnt that be "throw something nice at Billy Beane"?

you know what i meant

Pierre shortcoming this season was not hit per at bats but it was in reference to his OBP He only walked 32 times but on the flip side he struck out only 38 times this in 674 ab is mind boggling. Pierre puts the ball in play every at bat. He got hot at the end of this season the ball started falling in for hits finally but he never really stopped hitting it

Pierre shortcoming this season was not hit per at bats but it was in reference to his OBP He only walked 32 times but on the flip side he struck out only 38 times this in 674 ab is mind boggling. Pierre puts the ball in play every at bat. He got hot at the end of this season the ball started falling in for hits finally but he never really stopped hitting it

 

Putting the ball in play with the 8th or 9th batters on accomplishes what exactly? I'm sure pitchers and catchers with busted knees are huge threats.

 

That said, even though Pierre has had a better 2nd half, he's still only getting on base at a .340 OBP. That's not acceptable for a major league leadoff hitter. .360 OBP is the bare minimum for a successful leadoff hitter and any SB% below 75% is costing teams runs rather than adding runs. I know stats hurt some of your heads, but believe it or not, there's more to baseball than "wiggly feel" and having a lot of "heart".

Fritz so you are clarifying my point...? BTW Pierre OBP stands at this moment at .330 He has only scored 83 runs We know he has had a nightmare of a season but he puts the ball in play. It isn't a matter that his bat has slowed down he has had atrocious luck through the first half of the season

Except he sucked in 2005 too. It's not like he's been lighting the world on fire. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Sure, his Ks are low, but what difference is a groundout with the bases empty compared to a K with the bases empty? It's not like reaching on errors is a particularly common occurance.

Just something I picked up on the Drays search for starting pitching (hint hint) and the possible availability of Carl Crawford.

 

http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/ex_rayvi...oel_sherman.htm

 

September 26, 2006 -- Tuesday morning shortstop

WOULD the Mets dare return to the scene of the crime? Would they consider trading another high-end young starter such as Phil Humber or Mike Pelfrey to the Devil Rays and risk a sequel to the Scott Kazmir blunder?

 

At the very least, they will get the chance to think about it since Tampa intends to dangle Carl Crawford in attempts to land a pitcher with top-of-the-rotation abilities. Rays officials have come to believe the only way to rise to consistent challengers in an AL East that houses the Yankees and Red Sox is to form a dynamic rotation that has a chance to stay together for a few years (think the A's with Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder and Barry Zito).

 

Tampa already has Kazmir and its Double-A affiliate, Montgomery, won the Southern League title behind Andrew Sonnanstine, Mitch Talbot and Jeff Niemann. A scout who watched the team thinks Talbot and, especially, Niemann (Humber's former Rice teammate) are ace material.

 

The Rays do not yearn to trade Crawford, the best player in their sorry history. In Crawford, Rocco Baldelli and Delmon Young, Tampa has the potential for an elite outfield. However, the Rays have determined it is easier to find outfield bats than precious arms. They believe by transplanting an infielder such as Jorge Cantu or B.J. Upton or making DH Jonny Gomes a more regular outfielder they already have low-cost replacement possibilities.

 

They would explore dealing Baldelli or Young. But the Rays recognize the need to stand out in a trade market where clubs looking for elite pitching potentially could trade established stars such as Mark Teixeira (Texas), Miguel Tejada (Baltimore) and Vernon Wells (Toronto). Crawford is alluring even in that forum because he already is of All-Star level, just turned 25 last month, is signed to a club-friendly long-term contract (four years at $27.5 million, including options, after this season), and possesses the ability to leadoff and, perhaps, play center field, two assets in great demand.

 

The Mets need neither a leadoff hitter nor centerfielder, and GM Omar Minaya wants to horde his best young starters as the effectiveness of Tom Glavine and Pedro Martinez wanes. However, the Mets could use a left fielder, Minaya's dream is to fill his everyday lineup with great athletes and, as one club official said in citing Minaya's credo to pursue the best players on the market, "if he is available, you have to be interested."

 

Jose Reyes and Crawford each leads his respective league in steals and triples, and the image of having them batting 1-2 and dashing the bases in front of Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado and David Wright is enthralling. Minaya has never shown tentativeness in the aftermath of the Kazmir debacle (which pre-dates his reign) and, besides, as opposed to Victor Zambrano, Crawford does not need anybody to fix him in 10 minutes. He is on the brink of becoming the first major leaguer ever to have two seasons of at least 15 triples, 15 homers, 45 steals and a .300 average.

 

Internally, though, the Mets do wonder how much playing home games on turf has enhanced Crawford's numbers. In an ideal world, the 2007 Met left fielder would better balance the lineup by being a righty hitter, which could make Baldelli or Young enticing. However, Minaya still believes in his own young righty-hitting outfielder, Lastings Milledge. So Milledge could be the left fielder and Minaya could address top-of-the-order athleticism and a second base need by pursuing his main free-agent target, Crawford's former Tampa teammate Julio Lugo, rather than Crawford.

 

It is not like that would leave Crawford hungering for suitors. The Angels have previously considered dealing Ervin Santana for Crawford. The Rockies and Dodgers have been interested, and the Astros would love to bring home a Houston native. Actually, the Yankees would be among the small group of teams who would not inquire about Crawford because their outfield is overstocked.

 

The long list of interested teams explains why Tampa is considering this move. They know Crawford's appeal on the market and see that as the surest way to get a major arm.

I'm still a little surprised that Florida and Tampa weren't able to work something out earlier. Pitcher/s for outfielder seemed like an obvious swap for both teams before the season.

As much as I love JP, he should not return to the Marlins next season. The Marlins need first and foremost, in my mind, a centerfielder with above average range and an above average arm. It will be nice to have one outfielder who doesn't cause us to sit on the edges of our seats everytime a ball is hit their way and will in fact catch a number of would-be hits and will throw out some runners who test his arm. If this CF can hit at about league average I will be satisfied. Anything more would be gravy.

 

I do worry about Jim Edmonds future prospects after his concussion injury this year. Plus didn't he show some declining abilities defensively this season before he got the concussion?

 

As for Carl Crawford, the D'Rays would make us pay through the nose to get him. Also I have my doubts about his ability to play CF, though he probably would eventually turn out to be above average.

 

Our best bet, with no change in the Marlins MO in sight as far as paying big league contracts goes, is to trade for a MLB-ready prospect. That is if you want the Marlins to have the money to sign Dontrelle and Miguel to long term contracts they would accept AND the Marlins to actually make good on those contracts (i.e. not trade them when their contracts become too much of a burden).