He did pretty well without it, no biggie.

 

Except for the fact if it was pine tar, he should have been booted and suspended for 10 games.

 

Whether he pitched well without it or not doesn't matter.

pine tar is black...the dirt on his hand was clearly light brown

It looks like doo doo!

Damn nice call on the pine tar. That is definitely pine tar but I really dont see how that could affect you much in your pitching because the location that he has the smudge you cant really do much with.

 

Only thing I could possibly see it doing is helping him on the changeup because maybe he couldnt get a grib on the ball because of the cold. But I really dont see how that smudge of tar would do anything on his rest of the pitches.

 

Actually the smudge there should actually decrease velocity because that part of your hand shouldnt be touching the ball on a fastball or anything other than the changeup.

 

He probably used it just for the mental aspect. He felt that he had no grip on the ball so he put a little tar. It really shouldnt have done much to the ball if anything at all.

He's being pitching with it for the entire post season. The guy should have being thrown out. If using pine tar is an accepted part of the game, I'm sure is ok as long as you dont get caught, and he got caught. Thats not ok

 

And you know this how? I don't recall anything being spotted or brought up at all before tonight. He seemed to be pitching "decent" without it from the 2nd inning on so I don't think he needed it to cheat nor do I think he was trying to cheat.

 

The guy is on a roll, not every accomplishment in sports these days has to be considered cheating.

 

 

left is the ALCS game, on the right was the WS game

 

Regardless what it is, there is something wrong with that hand.

Another thing it could be was just something to eliminate blisters which isnt illegal I believe.

Regardless what it is, there is something wrong with that hand.

 

Ah I was unaware of the DS and CS pics. Thanks.

Wrong or right hand it is rubbed onto or against the ball.

 

I dont like giving the "benefit of the doubt" to baseball players anymore. He had it in the ALCS also.

I'd care more if he didn't wash it off and didn't continue to be as ridiculous and dominant as he has been in the other two starts.

What I want to know is if it was in fact dirt on his hand, how do you not feel it and find it to be a huge f***ing distraction? It's not like it was on his non throwing hand. If Josh Beckett can't pitch with a small blister on his finger I find it hard to believe "The Roaster" was able to pitch with a sh*t sized clump of dirt on his hand.

 

It's like he bent over to rub some dirt on his hand only to find it stuck right to his palm and said "Ho hum it's only a clump of dirt, I can still dominate, no need to wipe it off."

 

HAH! Something seem's fishy.

To me it doesn't look like a clump or anything raised, but more of a smear so if it was unintentional (I don't think it was, pitchers add substances [spit, dirt, etc] all the time to their hands and to have it on the same spot on your hand in two different games isn't a coincidence) that could be why or a reason why he might not have noticed it.

 

The umpire supervisor added this:

Steve Palermo said, "There was absolutely no detection that Kenny Rogers put anything on the ball. This was not an inspection, this was an observation. The umpires were very proactive. They asked that Kenny just clean that dirt off so there wouldn't be any question as to him with any foreign substance or dirt or whatever it may have been on the ball."

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti..._little_secret/

 

Pretty much the final word on it to me.

Not that I think Kenny cheated, but in the press conference with Kenny, he said the umpires never told him to remove it

 

he did it himself

Then Leyland refuted that, which was weird to me.

I'm in agreement that he probably didn't cheat I just find it really odd that the reports are saying its dirt and it just doesn't look like dirt. If anything it looks like a bruise I got 2 weeks ago when I took a slapshot to my thigh.

The use of illegal substances on pitched balls is as much mental as anything it actually may do to the ball.

The use of illegal substances on pitched balls is as much mental as anything it actually may do to the ball.

 

Eh.... you can get some awesome movement if you doctor the balls

I don't know if I buy that.

 

David Wells was caught 2 years ago against Baltimore for spitting on his hands and rubbing the ball up before throwing and his pitches weren't the same after he had to stop and with the spit they had absurd movement (his curve was never better) and with the spit he had just a huge near unhittable performance.

 

Julian Tavarez I think definitely puts something on the ball and with the type of movement he can create (few pitcher's movement is as varied and different as his) I'm almost sure he adds something.

The use of illegal substances on pitched balls is as much mental as anything it actually may do to the ball.

 

Eh.... you can get some awesome movement if you doctor the balls

 

Yes, but most of the pitchers who used it were completely aware of the psychological advantage it gave them over a hitter. Eddie Ciccote used to "shine" the ball by rubbing it on his uniform, claiming that it gave his breaking balls extra break. Whether it did or not is arguable, but not really the point. It made hitters think it did.

I don't know if this affected his performance or not, but it's laughable that he wasn't immediately tossed after they found out the pine tar was there. The last time this came up was the Brendan Donnelly incident in '05, and he was immediately tossed and suspended (and if you remember, it nearly incited a riot between Mike Sciosia and Frank Robinson).

 

I know a lot of guys do it, but he got caught, and for him not to get tossed is terrible work by the umpiring crew.

He did pretty well without it, no biggie.

 

Except for the fact if it was pine tar, he should have been booted and suspended for 10 games.

 

Whether he pitched well without it or not doesn't matter.

pine tar is black...the dirt on his hand was clearly light brown

 

You're kidding right?

 

Pine tar is not black, it is brown. Secondly, you don't apply pure pine tar to the skin, it'd rip off. Pine tar placed on a bat, or skin is diluted. Batters who use pinetar without batting gloves are very careful with it and toughen their hands while watering down the tar.

He did pretty well without it, no biggie.

 

Except for the fact if it was pine tar, he should have been booted and suspended for 10 games.

 

Whether he pitched well without it or not doesn't matter.

pine tar is black...the dirt on his hand was clearly light brown

 

You're kidding right?

 

Pine tar is not black, it is brown. Secondly, you don't apply pure pine tar to the skin, it'd rip off. Pine tar placed on a bat, or skin is diluted. Batters who use pinetar without batting gloves are very careful with it and toughen their hands while watering down the tar.

Yeah, pine tar used in baseball is brown. I really have no doubt that that's what was on Rogers' hand. Now with that being said, do I think the pine tar has a huge effect on performance? No, but the fact of the matter is, that it's illegal, and if the umpire knew he had it on his hand he should've been tossed, no question.

 

I also found Rogers' excuse laughable. Pitchers notice everything involving their arms and hands, and anything that affects their grip. For him to not notice the dirt on his hand for the entire first inning, I just don't see how that could be true.

He did pretty well without it, no biggie.

 

Except for the fact if it was pine tar, he should have been booted and suspended for 10 games.

 

Whether he pitched well without it or not doesn't matter.

pine tar is black...the dirt on his hand was clearly light brown

 

You're kidding right?

 

Pine tar is not black, it is brown. Secondly, you don't apply pure pine tar to the skin, it'd rip off. Pine tar placed on a bat, or skin is diluted. Batters who use pinetar without batting gloves are very careful with it and toughen their hands while watering down the tar.

 

George Brett agrees.

I don't know if this affected his performance or not, but it's laughable that he wasn't immediately tossed after they found out the pine tar was there. The last time this came up was the Brendan Donnelly incident in '05, and he was immediately tossed and suspended (and if you remember, it nearly incited a riot between Mike Sciosia and Frank Robinson).

 

I know a lot of guys do it, but he got caught, and for him not to get tossed is terrible work by the umpiring crew.

 

When did the umpires ever say that pine tar was there?

Woody Paige had an interesting take today. He said the sh*t on his hands was more of a distraction for him to be able to go to his cap many times ala a good magician distracting those watching.

 

Not saying he is right, or even close to it, just thought it was interesting.

They dont call him The Gambler for nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

My two cents, he's filthy dirty right now with or without doctoring the baseball.

SI.com's Jon Heyman talked to a bullpen coach about Kenny Rogers, foreign substances and what likely went on Sunday night in Rogers' 3-1 Game 2 World Series victory. For the record, Rogers' story is that the noticeable mark on the palm of his left hand that was picked up by FOX was a "clump of dirt," and Major League Baseball isn't pursuing the matter further. But here's what one bullpen coach said about it:

 

"It was pine tar. It couldn't be anything else. Pitchers use pine tar, shaving cream and suntan lotion. Pitchers use them to help them grip the ball and make the ball move more. Bullpen guys sometimes keep suntan lotion in the ball bags. It's not for a tan. Pine tar works the best. It's been around the longest. But lately, more and more guys are using shaving cream and suntan lotion. There's no chance to be caught with shaving cream or suntan lotion.

 

 

 

 

"I don't know Kenny Rogers, but I'm guessing he had to use pine tar because it was so cold. He probably usually uses shaving cream or suntan lotion because they blend in. A lot of guys use shaving cream or suntan lotion, or both, because there's no way you could detect them. But it was so cold in Detroit. You need moisture or sweat to make the shaving cream or suntan lotion work, so it was probably too cold to use shaving cream or suntan lotion."

 

 

Continued @ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...gers/index.html

 

Not really sure if this means much other then what alot of us think. I was just reading this evening and thought I would drop it in this thread for others.