Is Perry Hill only on a break or is he full-blown retired?

 

I think he went ahead and retired, he was hit pretty hard by his wife's health issues.

Maybe if Cabrera pretended that the ball was a hot dog, he would catch it more often. Then again, he might not throw it to first afterward.

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season.

 

"One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man.

He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name.

 

"If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate.

 

My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively.

Three words. Super China Buffet.

It's funny how four out of five posts or more ignore how incredibly bad Ramirez is defensively and he's not 30 lbs overweight. He's just plain awful.

You mention Ramirez's struggles enough for the rest of the board combined. Probably why no one brings it up.

When a guy struggles and is overweight a common conclusion to draw is that he would probably be better if he didn't have excess weight.

It's funny how four out of five posts or more ignore how incredibly bad Ramirez is defensively and he's not 30 lbs overweight. He's just plain awful.

 

I was thinking this too. Unless Cabrera loses 20+ pounds, he will probably be our future 1st baseman. With Ramirez, what are our options? Centerfield? I will give Hanley this: He's young, so he has time to develop as a defensive player.

He was one last year. There were less than a handful that were better. Behind only Zimmermann in the East.

 

To think he cant be again is ludicrous.

 

Bull crap. Even after he lost the weight he was at best middle of the road defensively. To watch him charge a ball and throw to 1B was an adventure, as an understatement. Watching him swipe at a grounder to his left and seeing the ball caroom past him (instead of getting in front of it) was laughable. He can't or won't play LF. He can't play 3B. And take him away from 3B I would imagine he just pouts and complains like when we had him in LF. His best position would be DH in the AL. Because as it is his best defensive play is watching the ball go past so he dosen't get creditied with an error that allows unearned runs to score.

But he has a bat. So he is a God to some/most.

 

miggy still has the ability to be a plus 3B...if you dont want to believe that it's ok

I don't agree. At his current weight he's terrible. If he loses weight he can be adequate. Last year after losing the weight he was adequate.

 

He was better than adequate.

 

This is a bit ironic:

"The only other third baseman in the majors who has made that many (8) is Mike Lowell, the former Gold Glover for the Marlins who is off to a poor start defensively this season for the Boston Red Sox."

-- Miami Herald

 

Reason is that Mike attempts grounders and the play. He has shown a consistent ability to get to those balls and make the play. Miggy, on the other hand, will more times than not just watch that ball bounce on past with barely a move. IMO... He could at least wave to it as it goes by.

He was one last year. There were less than a handful that were better. Behind only Zimmermann in the East.

 

To think he cant be again is ludicrous.

 

Bull crap. Even after he lost the weight he was at best middle of the road defensively. To watch him charge a ball and throw to 1B was an adventure, as an understatement. Watching him swipe at a grounder to his left and seeing the ball caroom past him (instead of getting in front of it) was laughable. He can't or won't play LF. He can't play 3B. And take him away from 3B I would imagine he just pouts and complains like when we had him in LF. His best position would be DH in the AL. Because as it is his best defensive play is watching the ball go past so he dosen't get creditied with an error that allows unearned runs to score.

But he has a bat. So he is a God to some/most.

 

miggy still has the ability to be a plus 3B...if you dont want to believe that it's ok

I don't agree. At his current weight he's terrible. If he loses weight he can be adequate. Last year after losing the weight he was adequate.

 

He was better than adequate.

 

This is a bit ironic:

"The only other third baseman in the majors who has made that many (8) is Mike Lowell, the former Gold Glover for the Marlins who is off to a poor start defensively this season for the Boston Red Sox."

-- Miami Herald

 

Reason is that Mike attempts grounders and the play. He has shown a consistent ability to get to those balls and make the play. Miggy, on the other hand, will more times than not just watch that ball bounce on past with barely a move. IMO... He could at least wave to it as it goes by.

 

And I think you are totally clueless when it comes to Cabreras defense. And seem to dislike him for some reason.

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season.

 

"One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man.

He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name.

 

"If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate.

 

My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively.

 

I have no idea what you being a girl has to do with your opinion. But fine, we will agree to disagree on this one. And just FYI...IMO Piazza was the worst catcher in baseball with his glove. Great bat, but bottom of the pack with his defensive skills. The only catcher that I said must have been practising in the off season if I saw him throw to 2B on just one hop. Always said he should be the DH.

Stats don't show the whole picture. Players will get called for an error if they show a consistent ability to make a play and then flub it. Miggy dosen't show that. Plays where other 3B will dive and make a throw to 1B for the out Miggy will just watch go on past him. Charge a ball and throw to 1B for an error (which happens more times than not with Miggy), or charge a ball and hold onto it for an infield hit. Guess which Miggy will opt for. I don't care if he is GG caliber every season. But I would like him to not be an embarrassment at playing his position. I don't take what THutt says as the gospel on everything. I like him as a person and our announcer but...

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season.

 

"One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man.

He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name.

 

"If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate.

 

My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively.

 

I have no idea what you being a girl has to do with your opinion. But fine, we will agree to disagree on this one. And just FYI...IMO Piazza was the worst catcher in baseball with his glove. Great bat, but bottom of the pack with his defensive skills. The only catcher that I said must have been practising in the off season if I saw him throw to 2B on just one hop. Always said he should be the DH.

Stats don't show the whole picture. Players will get called for an error if they show a consistent ability to make a play and then flub it. Miggy dosen't show that. Plays where other 3B will dive and make a throw to 1B for the out Miggy will just watch go on past him. Charge a ball and throw to 1B for an error (which happens more times than not with Miggy), or charge a ball and hold onto it for an infield hit. Guess which Miggy will opt for. I don't care if he is GG caliber every season. But I would like him to not be an embarrassment at playing his position. I don't take what THutt says as the gospel on everything. I like him as a person and our announcer but...

 

I mentioned my being a girl, because you had laughed at something I said, then said, "Thanks, man." Anyway, we agree to disagree. And I don't remember Cabrera ever complaining about playing 3rd. I do remember him saying that 3rd is the position he would like to play. In 2003, he did whatever McKeon wanted him to do: left field, right field, third base...

I think you missed my earlier point regarding great offensive players who couldn't play defense. I know Piazza was a horrible defensive catcher. That's why I mentioned him as well as Ortiz, Howard and Manny Ramirez after you made the ridiculous statement that "If it wasn't for his (Cabrera's) bat, we wouldn't even know his name." There are many many players you can say this about. Do you think if Cabs were a great defensive 3rd baseman, that's what he would be known for??? He'll always be known for his offense. If Miggy can be at least adequate on defense, that's fine with me. It's similar to if a player is great defensively, but just average offensively. Perfect example is Charles Johnson. Him batting .250 was fine, because his contribution to defense was just that special.

What is your solution with Cabrera? Do you see him being moved to 1st in the near future?

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season.

 

"One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man.

He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name.

 

"If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate.

 

My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively.

 

I have no idea what you being a girl has to do with your opinion. But fine, we will agree to disagree on this one. And just FYI...IMO Piazza was the worst catcher in baseball with his glove. Great bat, but bottom of the pack with his defensive skills. The only catcher that I said must have been practising in the off season if I saw him throw to 2B on just one hop. Always said he should be the DH.

Stats don't show the whole picture. Players will get called for an error if they show a consistent ability to make a play and then flub it. Miggy dosen't show that. Plays where other 3B will dive and make a throw to 1B for the out Miggy will just watch go on past him. Charge a ball and throw to 1B for an error (which happens more times than not with Miggy), or charge a ball and hold onto it for an infield hit. Guess which Miggy will opt for. I don't care if he is GG caliber every season. But I would like him to not be an embarrassment at playing his position. I don't take what THutt says as the gospel on everything. I like him as a person and our announcer but...

 

I mentioned my being a girl, because you had laughed at something I said, then said, "Thanks, man." Anyway, we agree to disagree. And I don't remember Cabrera ever complaining about playing 3rd. I do remember him saying that 3rd is the position he would like to play. In 2003, he did whatever McKeon wanted him to do: left field, right field, third base...

I think you missed my earlier point regarding great offensive players who couldn't play defense. I know Piazza was a horrible defensive catcher. That's why I mentioned him as well as Ortiz, Howard and Manny Ramirez after you made the ridiculous statement that "If it wasn't for his (Cabrera's) bat, we wouldn't even know his name." There are many many players you can say this about. Do you think if Cabs were a great defensive 3rd baseman, that's what he would be known for??? He'll always be known for his offense. If Miggy can be at least adequate on defense, that's fine with me. It's similar to if a player is great defensively, but just average offensively. Perfect example is Charles Johnson. Him batting .250 was fine, because his contribution to defense was just that special.

What is your solution with Cabrera? Do you see him being moved to 1st in the near future?

 

LOL I say "man" to everyone. And I didn't mean he ever complained about playing 3B. Playing the OF is what he always complained about. He almost insisted at 3B. I do stick by my statement of if not for his bat we would never know his name. If he played this kind of D and had a average bat do you think we would be seeing him? Like Lee when he was here? Potential at the plate but boy can that guy play his position. That's what Lee had here.

Granted, I'm big on defense.

 

And I think you are totally clueless when it comes to Cabreras defense. And seem to dislike him for some reason.

 

Clueless?? Yea, right. I don't idolize a guy for his bat when his defense is sloppy at best. He sometimes plays like he dosen't even want to be on the field, just in the batters box. The reason I dislike him is because of his lackadaisical and inconsistent play. Some days he shows up, more often he just shows up to hit and waits it out in the field. You be blinded by the offensive numbers. I'll look at the overall player and want more from the hot corner with a glove.

I am not blinded by the offensive #s.

 

The #s that say Cabrera is a very good 3B and in the top 3 in the NL with the leather last year...I guess you could say those are the #s I am blinded by.

In order for Cabrera to survive defensively this season, he must lose some weight. He started off very similarly last season, lost the weight and became one of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season.

 

"One of the better defensive third basemen from June through the end of the season"???? I laughed at that til tears rolled down my cheeks. Thanks man.

He became an acceptable 3B. Middle of the pack with his glove. If that high. Face the truth. If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name.

 

"If it wasn't for his bat we wouldn't even know his name." Well, duh. What a silly statement. We wouldn't know about Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz or Mike Piazza either. When your offensive numbers at age 23 are Hank Aaron-like in comparison, you'll never be known for your defense, unless you're gold-glove caliber every season. We agree to disagree (and I'm a girl, by the way). And I agree with Spike. Unless your "middle of the pack" description of Cabrera last season means that only a handful were better than Miguel, then you're right. But that's not what "middle of the pack" means. I don't have the stats, but from June-Sept. I believe he had the least amount of errors out of all NL 3rd basemen. His numbers defensively overall were better than David Wright's (who many consider to be a fine defensive player). Provide me stats from June-Sept. in 2006 that show me he was "middle of the pack, if that." Tommy Hutton mentioned earlier in the season (when Cabs was lighter) that many people considered Cabrera an "adequate" 3B in '06, and Hutton said he was definitely more than adequate.

 

My point was: If he loses the weight, he'll be better defensively.

 

I have no idea what you being a girl has to do with your opinion. But fine, we will agree to disagree on this one. And just FYI...IMO Piazza was the worst catcher in baseball with his glove. Great bat, but bottom of the pack with his defensive skills. The only catcher that I said must have been practising in the off season if I saw him throw to 2B on just one hop. Always said he should be the DH.

Stats don't show the whole picture. Players will get called for an error if they show a consistent ability to make a play and then flub it. Miggy dosen't show that. Plays where other 3B will dive and make a throw to 1B for the out Miggy will just watch go on past him. Charge a ball and throw to 1B for an error (which happens more times than not with Miggy), or charge a ball and hold onto it for an infield hit. Guess which Miggy will opt for. I don't care if he is GG caliber every season. But I would like him to not be an embarrassment at playing his position. I don't take what THutt says as the gospel on everything. I like him as a person and our announcer but...

 

I mentioned my being a girl, because you had laughed at something I said, then said, "Thanks, man." Anyway, we agree to disagree. And I don't remember Cabrera ever complaining about playing 3rd. I do remember him saying that 3rd is the position he would like to play. In 2003, he did whatever McKeon wanted him to do: left field, right field, third base...

I think you missed my earlier point regarding great offensive players who couldn't play defense. I know Piazza was a horrible defensive catcher. That's why I mentioned him as well as Ortiz, Howard and Manny Ramirez after you made the ridiculous statement that "If it wasn't for his (Cabrera's) bat, we wouldn't even know his name." There are many many players you can say this about. Do you think if Cabs were a great defensive 3rd baseman, that's what he would be known for??? He'll always be known for his offense. If Miggy can be at least adequate on defense, that's fine with me. It's similar to if a player is great defensively, but just average offensively. Perfect example is Charles Johnson. Him batting .250 was fine, because his contribution to defense was just that special.

What is your solution with Cabrera? Do you see him being moved to 1st in the near future?

 

LOL I say "man" to everyone. And I didn't mean he ever complained about playing 3B. Playing the OF is what he always complained about. He almost insisted at 3B. I do stick by my statement of if not for his bat we would never know his name. If he played this kind of D and had a average bat do you think we would be seeing him? Like Lee when he was here? Potential at the plate but boy can that guy play his position. That's what Lee had here.

Granted, I'm big on defense.

 

And I think you are totally clueless when it comes to Cabreras defense. And seem to dislike him for some reason.

 

Clueless?? Yea, right. I don't idolize a guy for his bat when his defense is sloppy at best. He sometimes plays like he dosen't even want to be on the field, just in the batters box. The reason I dislike him is because of his lackadaisical and inconsistent play. Some days he shows up, more often he just shows up to hit and waits it out in the field. You be blinded by the offensive numbers. I'll look at the overall player and want more from the hot corner with a glove.

 

Bob,

I meant OF, not 3B. Yes, he expressed his desire to play 3rd at some point, but I don't remember him complaining about it.

I was thinking this too. Unless Cabrera loses 20+ pounds, he will probably be our future 1st baseman. With Ramirez, what are our options? Centerfield? I will give Hanley this: He's young, so he has time to develop as a defensive player.

You know, Cabrera is what? Barely 24? Call me crazy, but I don't think he's peaked yet either. People forget that despite how long Cabrera has been playing the ML level and the offensive numbers he has put up, he is still in a lot of ways a kid. Hell, it has probably contributed to him being a kid. A kid who still has maturity issues in regards to training right, and a kid who still has room to grow.

I am not blinded by the offensive #s.

 

The #s that say Cabrera is a very good 3B and in the top 3 in the NL with the leather last year...I guess you could say those are the #s I am blinded by.

 

Yep. He can stay away from those errors and make his stats look real good by just not trying for grounders hit to his right or stay away from charging a ball and throwing to 1B. I don't pay attention to stats. Leave that for the fantasy players. I actually go to the games and watch how players act and play.

Last year after he lost the weight he started to show imrovement. But he still had a REAL hard time charging one and throwing. Funny how when we were in the WC race he got less lazy. And when the season was ending he was less lazy. Wonder if that had anything to do with entering arbitration???

But hey look. If you are happy with a 3B that dosen't work his butt off defensively then fine. He could be a good 3B, he just needs to not be so lazy and WANT to learn how to be better. Right now he is a waste of talent with his glove. And when he goes into a batting slump it just magnifies that.

One of my all time favorite Marlins teams was that '99 team. A bunch of guys that didn't necessarily have all the God given talent but went out there and tried their best EVERY play. Not just when it was in the best interest for themselves or when they felt like it.

Tee Ball hit it pretty well. He is still very young and shows alot of immaturity. If he could get past that and want to learn he could become one of the top 3 3B in the league.

If you knew me you would know that I think F% is irrelevant. I like the stat that encompasses every single defensive metric for the most part, thats the one that says Cabs was very good last year.

 

I trust that more than your naked eye and seeming negative bias towards Cabrera.

I was thinking this too. Unless Cabrera loses 20+ pounds, he will probably be our future 1st baseman. With Ramirez, what are our options? Centerfield? I will give Hanley this: He's young, so he has time to develop as a defensive player.

You know, Cabrera is what? Barely 24? Call me crazy, but I don't think he's peaked yet either. People forget that despite how long Cabrera has been playing the ML level and the offensive numbers he has put up, he is still in a lot of ways a kid. Hell, it has probably contributed to him being a kid. A kid who still has maturity issues in regards to training right, and a kid who still has room to grow.

 

Tee Ball,

I agree. People take Cabrera for granted, because he's been so good. He won't reach his prime for another few years.

 

I am not blinded by the offensive #s.

 

The #s that say Cabrera is a very good 3B and in the top 3 in the NL with the leather last year...I guess you could say those are the #s I am blinded by.

 

Funny how when we were in the WC race he got less lazy. And when the season was ending he was less lazy. Wonder if that had anything to do with entering arbitration???

 

:|

May I also add that it's unfair, BroncoBob, to imply Cabrera isn't trying or doesn't give a hoot about his defense. Andy Fox mentioned in an article in the Sun-Sentinel that he is struck by how much both Ramirez and Cabrera, particularly because they're such great offensive players, care about their defense, and that both of them are working on it. I think people behind the scenes know better than us.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spm...la-sports-front

If you knew me you would know that I think F% is irrelevant. I like the stat that encompasses every single defensive metric for the most part, thats the one that says Cabs was very good last year.

 

I trust that more than your naked eye and seeming negative bias towards Cabrera.

 

I have no real bias against him. I said before, when he actually tries he is pretty good. I just don't like the laziness he continually shows on D unless something is in it for him. You watch those stats all you want. I'll take what can be actually seen instead. Stats can be manipulated. Actual live performances can not. Maybe they should make a stat on how many times he has let a grounder get past him that went for a double, and eventual score, instead of diving for it to keep it at the very least a single. Happens quite often. Lackadaisical play is laziness.

 

May I also add that it's unfair, BroncoBob, to imply Cabrera isn't trying or doesn't give a hoot about his defense. Andy Fox mentioned in an article in the Sun-Sentinel that he is struck by how much both Ramirez and Cabrera, particularly because they're such great offensive players, care about their defense, and that both of them are working on it. I think people behind the scenes know better than us.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spm...la-sports-front

 

I believe that about Hanley. Not so much about Miggy. It just dosen't show up during games. Or in his past. And there are plenty of fans that feel the same as me, just not willing to be heard slamming the current Marlin God. I'm willing to hope that it is immaturity and it will pass. He has the ability to be a very special player. But right now I think he is a prima donna playing a blue collar position.

I'm dropping this now. You and Spike and I will just have to continue to disagree on him.

Occasionally Miggy is lazy in the field, but most of the time he's not. He just looks lazy because of the way he walks and how slow he is in general.

people used to say Cliff Floyd was lazy too

Miguel Olivo is virtually useless to this team right now. What does he do? He can't catch every pitcher, he can't hit, he brings very little leadership to the clubhouse. The only positive is that he's a good backstop and gets the occasional lackluster hit or home run. That's it. When it comes to everything else, he's empty.

 

Floodgates open.

Olivo seems to drop pitches that are strikes and are called balls. Does Olivo dropping borderline pitches sway the calls of the umps? It almost seems like his damn catchers mitt isn't broken in properly the way he drops fastballs down the middle.