July 14, 200719 yr ...and just to continue, because this really pisses me off. Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera are really the two best players we've ever had in Marlins history, and when all is said and done at the end of the next generation of players in 30 years, they'll probably still hold that title. The two have done nothing wrong, are personable people who will sign autographs for kids all day long, yet one's a fat lardass and one should be in centerfield in a headlock watching Amezaga to see how the game's meant to be played. Maybe if Marlins fans got their heads out of their f***ing asses and appreciated the REAL talent we have rather than busting a nut over an overrated player whose presence has done NOTHING for us in terms of onfield results since he was made the rebuilding face of franchise, we'd be better off. I'm sick of these people who are always saying "if they trade Dontrelle, I'm done" well, fan-f***ing-tastic, all 11,000 of you made time on your busy summer Friday to see this sack of crap pitch the worst game of his life after coming out in the papers and calling this homestand the most important of the season. Kudos to all of you Willis lovers. OK you just called Dontrelle Willis a "sack of crap". You need a vacation bro cause you've got way to much hate in you. Book a spa day at the Wynn and ask for a massage/facial from Zoe. She's real nice and and she can give you a big hug cause you really need one.
July 14, 200719 yr i think dontrelle buys too much into trade talks. Like last year, once the deadline passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see D-Train turn it back up again.
July 14, 200719 yr Marlins fans are the biggest apathetic fans in baseball. You all want to rip the Phillies fans for booing and being the way they are but their a lot better off then we are. They show passion towards their team and will call out the crap. We defend our crap and swear by them despite the fact they are crap. Yes, i know this sounds badly coming from me who defended Billy Koch but all of you who worship the mediocre ground Dontrelle and Olsen walk on are just as guilty. Booing your own players does not equal "passion."
July 14, 200719 yr Marlins fans are the biggest apathetic fans in baseball. You all want to rip the Phillies fans for booing and being the way they are but their a lot better off then we are. They show passion towards their team and will call out the crap. We defend our crap and swear by them despite the fact they are crap. Yes, i know this sounds badly coming from me who defended Billy Koch but all of you who worship the mediocre ground Dontrelle and Olsen walk on are just as guilty. Booing your own players does not equal "passion." Neither does sitting on your hands and saying nothing....that shows apathy....you think you guys are great because you cheer? Nope, it's a two-way street...I'm sure you were quick to boo Jay Fiedler when he stunk...or when the dolphins went 3 and out for the 5th straight time in a game.
July 14, 200719 yr :blink: QUOTE(Rabbethan @ Jul 14 2007, 2:58 AM) QUOTE(TSwift25 @ Jul 14 2007, 12:51 AM) And, despite what it apparently sounded like on TV, Dontrelle did not get booed off the field. Some actually applauded him. They were booing like hell where I was sitting and I assumed most were applauding him being taken of the field. I just stayed quiet and angry at the crowd acting like this was Philly Couldn't have said it better. I think TSwift was being a little homer-ish in his outlook of the situation. DTrain was definetly booed off the field. I also think the applause was for his removal. The very few fans there were acting pretty much like you said. Philly fans. What have you done for ME lately type fans. It was embarrassing, to put it mildly. From TSwift: I hate Dontrelle Willis and the ardent support for him so much someone insinuated I was a racist. I was at the game last night, like I'm at every game, and Dontrelle was not booed off the mound, people were booing (myself included) but most jokers over the dugout stood up and clapped. Everyone was booing Willis because if you were behind the plate, you heard me and my group. Because Dontrelle walked on water all the way to our new stadium? What the hell has Dontrelle done to get an all-time free pass? this sack of crap I fully expect Dontrelle Willis to throw one into right field everytime he's head bobbing his way over to a groundball +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ . . . Swifty, it was I who brought up racism, but it was in real life, not on these boards. As you know, I went out of my way 5-6 times to say that I wasn't insinuating anything about you or anyone else on the board. But your statements today make me rethink that thought. From what you've expressed, you are indeed a racist, and not just toward Dontrelle. Any uppity head bobbing black person will feed your sickness. I can't say I feel sorry for you, as I don't. You're a sick person. . . When Marlins2003 says you got chased off the ESPN boards with your tail between your legs, I thought this doesn't sound right. How in the world can anyone get chased off an Internet message board? Today, I can see how. . . It's embarrasing at times to be a Marlins fan. Sitting at home or at the game and seeing 5000 people there. It's more embarrasing to have any association with the likes of you.
July 14, 200719 yr Marlins fans are the biggest apathetic fans in baseball. You all want to rip the Phillies fans for booing and being the way they are but their a lot better off then we are. They show passion towards their team and will call out the crap. We defend our crap and swear by them despite the fact they are crap. Yes, i know this sounds badly coming from me who defended Billy Koch but all of you who worship the mediocre ground Dontrelle and Olsen walk on are just as guilty. Booing your own players does not equal "passion." Neither does sitting on your hands and saying nothing....that shows apathy....you think you guys are great because you cheer? Nope, it's a two-way street...I'm sure you were quick to boo Jay Fiedler when he stunk...or when the dolphins went 3 and out for the 5th straight time in a game. Yeah, booing really accomplishes a lot. See: Rodriguez, Alex. Sorry, but I find it illogical to boo a player of your favorite team unless he's visibly showing a lack of effort on the field, or if he's treated the fans badly. I wasn't a fan of Fielder, but I didn't boo him. If you want to boo, boo the manager/coach/GM, etc. They put the talent on the field.
July 14, 200719 yr . . . Swifty, it was I who brought up racism, but it was in real life, not on these boards. As you know, I went out of my way 5-6 times to say that I wasn't insinuating anything about you or anyone else on the board. But your statements today make me rethink that thought. From what you've expressed, you are indeed a racist, and not just toward Dontrelle. Any uppity head bobbing black person will feed your sickness. I can't say I feel sorry for you, as I don't. You're a sick person. . . When Marlins2003 says you got chased off the ESPN boards with your tail between your legs, I thought this doesn't sound right. How in the world can anyone get chased off an Internet message board? Today, I can see how. . . It's embarrasing at times to be a Marlins fan. Sitting at home or at the game and seeing 5000 people there. It's more embarrasing to have any association with the likes of you. One time, Tswift kicked a little black baby just for headbobbing in his stroller next to him. It was just disgusting.
July 14, 200719 yr Author . . . Swifty, it was I who brought up racism, but it was in real life, not on these boards. As you know, I went out of my way 5-6 times to say that I wasn't insinuating anything about you or anyone else on the board. But your statements today make me rethink that thought. From what you've expressed, you are indeed a racist, and not just toward Dontrelle. Any uppity head bobbing black person will feed your sickness. I can't say I feel sorry for you, as I don't. You're a sick person. . . When Marlins2003 says you got chased off the ESPN boards with your tail between your legs, I thought this doesn't sound right. How in the world can anyone get chased off an Internet message board? Today, I can see how. . . It's embarrasing at times to be a Marlins fan. Sitting at home or at the game and seeing 5000 people there. It's more embarrasing to have any association with the likes of you. One time, Tswift kicked a little black baby just for headbobbing in his stroller next to him. It was just disgusting. Yup, it's just a black and white issue.
July 14, 200719 yr Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people. Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game. With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor. Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow. Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is...
July 14, 200719 yr Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people. Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game. With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor. Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow. Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is... Well, what would you call Dontrelle Willis right now? A good baseball player? HE's not that. He's closer to a bad baseball player than a good baseball player. How about this: A mediocre to bad baseball player who has flashes of brilliances every few starts and who appears to be enjoying himself even when he loses, and who appears to try hard (unlike every single baseball player in the league).
July 14, 200719 yr So you agree then that Willis is, in Swift's words, "a sack of crap"? Ballplayers have moments of greatness and sometimes rough patches like Willis is going through right now. Frankly, I wouldn't use that kind of ugly name calling about any player who has made it to the major league level regardless of his performance when here, not Willis, not Joe Borchard, not Alex Rodriguez (who has been called worse at times in NY) I think it speaks more about the person saying it that the ballplayer in question. I happen to think part of his woes right now may be carrying the weight of all these trade rumors who guys like Rosenthal seem compelled to spread day after day week after week. He pitched well last August. I'm willing to at least wait until then before deciding how I see his future with the Marlins unfolding.
July 14, 200719 yr Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people. Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game. With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor. Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow. Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is... That's an astute observation 2003. I think that you're right about him not even being at the game, as he was on the game thread last night DURING the game, asking "Did Dontrelle get booed there". When I responded yes, his response was "no". Go ahead and check the thread boys and girls, it's right there. Folks, there is a sickness here. I'd say it's funny that you mentioned that 2003, but it's not. There's nothing funny about TSwift. 2003, one day you'll have to explain how this miscreant got chased off the ESPN message board. Either in public or mail me.
July 14, 200719 yr Chased off my be a poor choice of words...laughed off or ridiculed to the point of utter embarrassment might be a better way to put it.
July 14, 200719 yr So you agree then that Willis is, in Swift's words, "a sack of crap"? Ballplayers have moments of greatness and sometimes rough patches like Willis is going through right now. Frankly, I wouldn't use that kind of ugly name calling about any player who has made it to the major league level regardless of his performance when here, not Willis, not Joe Borchard, not Alex Rodriguez (who has been called worse at times in NY) I think it speaks more about the person saying it that the ballplayer in question. I happen to think part of his woes right now may be carrying the weight of all these trade rumors who guys like Rosenthal seem compelled to spread day after day week after week. He pitched well last August. I'm willing to at least wait until then before deciding how I see his future with the Marlins unfolding. I happen to think he's simply not all that good of a pitcher. A "sack of crap" is probably not the best choice of words, but the point is probably closer to the truth than you are willing to admit. He's never struck out enough batters to be dominant, and couple that with him absolutely losing his control the past 2 years and it's a pretty easy outcome to see most of the time. I'm not sure this is exactly a rough patch. This is what he is, a 4 era pitcher. If he can regain some control, his upside is probably David Wells, a good middle of the rotation starter. But right now, he's not even that, even though there are still many people who think his upside is top of the rotation. MOst of his value comes from being relatively cheap and club controlled for 2 years. If we want to get anything for him, we need to trade him. If the Mariners will give us Balentein and Clement, we should do it right now. Also, you guys really seem to hate Swift. What gives? It's a message board, you disagree with him, ignore him. It's not worthing getting as worked up as you guys are. As for "A sickness", pierre, you seem like you are about to mount like a full offensive on "bringing swifty down" or something. Just ignore him, man. If it bothers you that much that you think he's a racist (he's obviously not, even though he did dropkick that black baby as previously noted) and you think he has a sickness then just ignore him. Nobody wants to read your half baked psychological breakdowns of his posts. Give it a rest.
July 14, 200719 yr Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people. Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game. With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor. Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow. Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is... That's an astute observation 2003. I think that you're right about him not even being at the game, as he was on the game thread last night DURING the game, asking "Did Dontrelle get booed there". When I responded yes, his response was "no". Go ahead and check the thread boys and girls, it's right there. Folks, there is a sickness here. I'd say it's funny that you mentioned that 2003, but it's not. There's nothing funny about TSwift. 2003, one day you'll have to explain how this miscreant got chased off the ESPN message board. Either in public or mail me. I believe Swift has an IPhone which would make it possible to be in the game thread while at the game. But anyway, you gotta love how some "fans" will stick with players through thick and thin! The guy is a runner up for the Cy Young (how many pitchers in the history of the game can make that claim) and he's diving into home plate during Spring Training and what is he? According to bobbob and Swift he's a SACK OF CRAP. The Marlins don't even know what great "fans" they have.
July 14, 200719 yr I believe Swift has an IPhone which would make it possible to be in the game thread while at the game. But anyway, you gotta love how some "fans" will stick with players through thick and thin! The guy is a runner up for the Cy Young (how many pitchers in the history of the game can make that claim) and he's diving into home plate during Spring Training and what is he? According to bobbob and Swift he's a SACK OF CRAP. The Marlins don't even know what great "fans" they have. Like 97 pitchers could say they are cy young runner ups in the history of the game. f*** you if you are trying to tell me that since I don't think Dontrelle is a good player I'm not a true fan. I'm not sure about you, but I root for the Marlins, not "Random player on the Marlins". Who gives a sh*t if he's diving into home plate head first during spring training? Seriously, ignore the fact that he's been awful this year (His current ERA+ puts him on the Jason Johnson, Jose Lima, Scott Elarton level) and wasn't all that great last year, what we should judge a player on is whether or not they dive headfirst into home plate during a meaningless game. Seriously, get off your tower for a minute and try to at least see where we're coming from. Sure, he plays hard. As do most players in the majors. Ok, he puts himself at risk for injury in a meaningless game. I guess that's an admirable trait, though it shouldn't factor in when discussing a player's on the field performance during the regular season. Last season, he was 12% better than the average major league pitcher. This season, he's 15% worse than the average major league pitcher. And if you actually read what I wrote, I never said he was a "sack of crap". I said "I happen to think he's simply not all that good of a pitcher. A "sack of crap" is probably not the best choice of words, but the point is probably closer to the truth than you are willing to admit. He's never struck out enough batters to be dominant, and couple that with him absolutely losing his control the past 2 years and it's a pretty easy outcome to see most of the time. " If true fans are supposed to turn a blind eye to their team's player's faults, then I guess I'm not a true fan. Sorry.
July 14, 200719 yr I believe Swift has an IPhone which would make it possible to be in the game thread while at the game. But anyway, you gotta love how some "fans" will stick with players through thick and thin! The guy is a runner up for the Cy Young (how many pitchers in the history of the game can make that claim) and he's diving into home plate during Spring Training and what is he? According to bobbob and Swift he's a SACK OF CRAP. The Marlins don't even know what great "fans" they have. Like 97 pitchers could say they are cy young runner ups in the history of the game. f*** you if you are trying to tell me that since I don't think Dontrelle is a good player I'm not a true fan. I'm not sure about you, but I root for the Marlins, not "Random player on the Marlins". Who gives a sh*t if he's diving into home plate head first during spring training? Seriously, ignore the fact that he's been awful this year (His current ERA+ puts him on the Jason Johnson, Jose Lima, Scott Elarton level) and wasn't all that great last year, what we should judge a player on is whether or not they dive headfirst into home plate during a meaningless game. Seriously, get off your tower for a minute and try to at least see where we're coming from. Sure, he plays hard. As do most players in the majors. Ok, he puts himself at risk for injury in a meaningless game. I guess that's an admirable trait, though it shouldn't factor in when discussing a player's on the field performance during the regular season. Last season, he was 12% better than the average major league pitcher. This season, he's 15% worse than the average major league pitcher. And if you actually read what I wrote, I never said he was a "sack of crap". I said "I happen to think he's simply not all that good of a pitcher. A "sack of crap" is probably not the best choice of words, but the point is probably closer to the truth than you are willing to admit. He's never struck out enough batters to be dominant, and couple that with him absolutely losing his control the past 2 years and it's a pretty easy outcome to see most of the time. " If true fans are supposed to turn a blind eye to their team's player's faults, then I guess I'm not a true fan. Sorry. Lets not stoop to dropping F-bombs bro. I know your much smarter than everyone else and like to be "that guy" but we can do without the obscenities. And 97 pitchers in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF BASEBALL is not a lot. lol Dontrelle is really really struggling right now (just like 30% of the team). Im not gonna sit here and tell you that he's pitching like a #1 or a # 2 or even a # 3 right now because he isnt. Being a fan is about being there for the players during the good times and the BAD times. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who gets an erection when Dontrelle has a bad outing and calls him a "sack of crap" then be my guest.
July 14, 200719 yr Lets not stoop to dropping F-bombs bro. I know your much smarter than everyone else and like to be "that guy" but we can do without the obscenities. And 97 pitchers in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF BASEBALL is not a lot. lol Dontrelle is really really struggling right now (just like 30% of the team). Im not gonna sit here and tell you that he's pitching like a #1 or a # 2 or even a # 3 right now because he isnt. Being a fan is about being there for the players during the good times and the BAD times. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who gets an erection when Dontrelle has a bad outing and calls him a "sack of crap" then be my guest. 97 pitchers in the last 50 years (they didn't award Cy Youngs before 1956). I'm not saying it's not impressive, but numerous pitchers have finished runner up in the Cy Young for one year and had overall crappy careers. Esteban Loaiza was a runner up for a cy young. Are you going to argue that he's one of the best pitchers in the game? Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players, especially not in today's game, where players spend like 3 years with a team and then get traded or leave. If you are telling me being a fan of a team is all about loyalty to that team's players, then you are kidding yourself. It hasn't been that way for 30 years. You root for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And I guess you are implying that I'm not there for the players during the bad times, which explains why I've been to 11 home games already even though they've only won 3 of the ones I've been to. I root for Dontrelle, but I don't expect him to succeed anymore, because frankly he's much more likely to toss absolute crap up there than he is to be dominating. Thats simply a fact, it's not a matter of "going through a rough stretch", he's simply not as good a pitcher as we expect him to be. If we came into the season expecting a 4.0 ERA like we probably should've, we'd be much less dissapointed. But we expected him to be an ace. He isn't, and save for one year, never has been and never will be. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who serves up batting practice every other time he takes the hill be my guest.
July 14, 200719 yr I'm just curious, other than Olivo, who was notably bad defensively? Wood's misplay was terrible, but that was sh*tty positioning as much as anything else. Dontrelle threw one into right, but he was due for one of those. What am I missing? Nothing, that's about it. Though I gotta admit, I tuned in and out of the game. But it's part of a larger pattern of poor play is what I'm getting at.
July 14, 200719 yr "Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players". Lets get real here. I understand where your coming from with the "in today's game" stuff but why don't we just send Honda robots out to play instead? You root for the names on the back and the name on the front. And please stop going back to the whole Dontrelle isnt an ace thing. I never said he was an ace (although unlike you I believe he has a SHOT to regain his 2005 form). This discussion is not about him being an ace or not. Its about fans booing the home team and calling players a sack of crap.
July 14, 200719 yr Lets not stoop to dropping F-bombs bro. I know your much smarter than everyone else and like to be "that guy" but we can do without the obscenities. And 97 pitchers in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF BASEBALL is not a lot. lol Dontrelle is really really struggling right now (just like 30% of the team). Im not gonna sit here and tell you that he's pitching like a #1 or a # 2 or even a # 3 right now because he isnt. Being a fan is about being there for the players during the good times and the BAD times. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who gets an erection when Dontrelle has a bad outing and calls him a "sack of crap" then be my guest. 97 pitchers in the last 50 years (they didn't award Cy Youngs before 1956). I'm not saying it's not impressive, but numerous pitchers have finished runner up in the Cy Young for one year and had overall crappy careers. Esteban Loaiza was a runner up for a cy young. Are you going to argue that he's one of the best pitchers in the game? Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players, especially not in today's game, where players spend like 3 years with a team and then get traded or leave. If you are telling me being a fan of a team is all about loyalty to that team's players, then you are kidding yourself. It hasn't been that way for 30 years. You root for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And I guess you are implying that I'm not there for the players during the bad times, which explains why I've been to 11 home games already even though they've only won 3 of the ones I've been to. I root for Dontrelle, but I don't expect him to succeed anymore, because frankly he's much more likely to toss absolute crap up there than he is to be dominating. Thats simply a fact, it's not a matter of "going through a rough stretch", he's simply not as good a pitcher as we expect him to be. If we came into the season expecting a 4.0 ERA like we probably should've, we'd be much less dissapointed. But we expected him to be an ace. He isn't, and save for one year, never has been and never will be. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who serves up batting practice every other time he takes the hill be my guest. Are you the same BobBob that comes to the defense of Hermida, who's NEVER been anything but potential. And who drops flyballs like they're grenades. And who's hitting close to the Mendoza line. Yet you find these "lucky" stats to defend him and maintain that he's destined for greatness. . . Both Dontrelle and Hermida are hopefully both going through a rough patch, though Hermida has never shown a good streak in MLB. Dontrelle at least does have a lifetime ERA that would put him at #15 on the active player list. The hacks ahead of him. Maddux, Oswalt, Clemens, Santana, Big Unit, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Zambrano, Schilling, Glavine, and Hudson.
July 14, 200719 yr Are you the same BobBob that comes to the defense of Hermida, who's NEVER been anything but potential. And who drops flyballs like they're grenades. And who's hitting close to the Mendoza line. Yet you find these "lucky" stats to defend him and maintain that he's destined for greatness. . . Both Dontrelle and Hermida are hopefully both going through a rough patch, though Hermida has never shown a good streak in MLB. Dontrelle at least does have a lifetime ERA that would put him at #15 on the active player list. The hacks ahead of him. Maddux, Oswalt, Clemens, Santana, Big Unit, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Zambrano, Schilling, Glavine, and Hudson. I can pull out the "lucky" stats that show Dontrelle had incredible luck in terms of home runs allowed, but you'll just say "I know what my eyes tell me". And I am the same bobbob who comes to the defense of Hermida when people say he's never going to amount to anything in the majors or that we need to worry about RF more than CF and C. I like to think I'm pretty consistent in my stances (Hermida's peripherals show he is better than his BA indicates, Dontrelle's peripherals indicate he wasn't as good in 2005 as his ERA and he is about as good as they say he should be now).
July 14, 200719 yr "Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players". Lets get real here. I understand where your coming from with the "in today's game" stuff but why don't we just send Honda robots out to play instead? You root for the names on the back and the name on the front. And please stop going back to the whole Dontrelle isnt an ace thing. I never said he was an ace (although unlike you I believe he has a SHOT to regain his 2005 form). This discussion is not about him being an ace or not. Its about fans booing the home team and calling players a sack of crap. Fans are allowed to boo a player if he has a bad game, I think. At some point they have to let Dontrelle know that they don't appreciate him playing like crap. He's had about 2 years of goodwill generated by his 2005 season, but he's got to put up or the act is going to wear thin. I wouldn't be surprised if this turn him around, if he's as emotional and hard working as everyone seems to imply that he is. He wants the fans to like him, stop pitching like Victor Zambrano, and start pitching like Carlos Zambrano. You can support a player and still say they aren't good. Thats how I felt about JP when he was here. Hell, I know Reggie's not good, but I root for him since he plays for the Marlins. If Dontrelle gets traded tomorrow, I won't be rooting for him anymore. He's a great person, undoubtedly, and he appears to genuinely enjoy the game of baseball (as opposed to, say Josh Willingham, who appears that he would rather be playing Badminton, right?), but if he didn't play for the Marlins, I wouldn't root for him anymore than the hundreds of other "good guys" who love playing baseball on other teams.
July 14, 200719 yr Are you the same BobBob that comes to the defense of Hermida, who's NEVER been anything but potential. And who drops flyballs like they're grenades. And who's hitting close to the Mendoza line. Yet you find these "lucky" stats to defend him and maintain that he's destined for greatness. . . Both Dontrelle and Hermida are hopefully both going through a rough patch, though Hermida has never shown a good streak in MLB. Dontrelle at least does have a lifetime ERA that would put him at #15 on the active player list. The hacks ahead of him. Maddux, Oswalt, Clemens, Santana, Big Unit, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Zambrano, Schilling, Glavine, and Hudson. I can pull out the "lucky" stats that show Dontrelle had incredible luck in terms of home runs allowed, but you'll just say "I know what my eyes tell me". And I am the same bobbob who comes to the defense of Hermida when people say he's never going to amount to anything in the majors or that we need to worry about RF more than CF and C. I like to think I'm pretty consistent in my stances (Hermida's peripherals show he is better than his BA indicates, Dontrelle's peripherals indicate he wasn't as good in 2005 as his ERA and he is about as good as they say he should be now). BobBob....nobody has ever said that Dontrelle is, has been, or will be, some great #1 pitching ace. And nobody has said that Hermida should be tossed in the scrap heap. I'm hopeful that they'll both have a better second half, and both have a nice long productive career. It's actually you who's letting your eyes speak if you think that Dontrelle is a sack of mung and someone who's been throwing batting practice. That's just not a fact. He's had 2 real bad outings. The rest of the season has been a struggle for him, but not at the point where he's throwing batting practice. . . . That's my last post on that subject. This thread really is about BOOING the home team. And booing Dontrelle in particular. If you want to slide down that slope with TSwift as if you're a 2-man luge, go ahead.
July 14, 200719 yr Lets not stoop to dropping F-bombs bro. I know your much smarter than everyone else and like to be "that guy" but we can do without the obscenities. And 97 pitchers in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF BASEBALL is not a lot. lol Dontrelle is really really struggling right now (just like 30% of the team). Im not gonna sit here and tell you that he's pitching like a #1 or a # 2 or even a # 3 right now because he isnt. Being a fan is about being there for the players during the good times and the BAD times. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who gets an erection when Dontrelle has a bad outing and calls him a "sack of crap" then be my guest. 97 pitchers in the last 50 years (they didn't award Cy Youngs before 1956). I'm not saying it's not impressive, but numerous pitchers have finished runner up in the Cy Young for one year and had overall crappy careers. Esteban Loaiza was a runner up for a cy young. Are you going to argue that he's one of the best pitchers in the game? Being a fan is about being there for the team, not the players, especially not in today's game, where players spend like 3 years with a team and then get traded or leave. If you are telling me being a fan of a team is all about loyalty to that team's players, then you are kidding yourself. It hasn't been that way for 30 years. You root for the name on the front, not the name on the back. And I guess you are implying that I'm not there for the players during the bad times, which explains why I've been to 11 home games already even though they've only won 3 of the ones I've been to. I root for Dontrelle, but I don't expect him to succeed anymore, because frankly he's much more likely to toss absolute crap up there than he is to be dominating. Thats simply a fact, it's not a matter of "going through a rough stretch", he's simply not as good a pitcher as we expect him to be. If we came into the season expecting a 4.0 ERA like we probably should've, we'd be much less dissapointed. But we expected him to be an ace. He isn't, and save for one year, never has been and never will be. But if you want to come to the defense of a guy who serves up batting practice every other time he takes the hill be my guest. Are you the same BobBob that comes to the defense of Hermida, who's NEVER been anything but potential. And who drops flyballs like they're grenades. And who's hitting close to the Mendoza line. Yet you find these "lucky" stats to defend him and maintain that he's destined for greatness. . . Both Dontrelle and Hermida are hopefully both going through a rough patch, though Hermida has never shown a good streak in MLB. Dontrelle at least does have a lifetime ERA that would put him at #15 on the active player list. The hacks ahead of him. Maddux, Oswalt, Clemens, Santana, Big Unit, Smoltz, Kevin Brown, Zambrano, Schilling, Glavine, and Hudson. Hermida has shown his potential in small spurts this season, there is a lot of reason to believe he will end up being a very above average player. Dontrelle on the other hand has only had two winning seasons with a winning record, is 19-20 in his last two seasons, and every year but 05 has gotten worse in terms of hits and walks allowed. There is plenty of reason to believe 2005 was just a career year for Dontrelle.
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