You know, it's funny...people boo Dontrelle yet Olsen the Wonderboy gets away scott free....

 

Olsen is 1-1 with an 8.32 ERA his last three starts.

 

Wait a minute...you dont like Scott Olsen?

 

Im fairly positive you have hammered that point home Debbie Does Dallas style.

He didnt say it was "ok" for Willis to throw one away, he said he was "due" and he is absolutely correct. Willis gets to a lot of balls that other pitcher don't and now and again he chucks one into RF. I wasnt @ the game so I don't know if I had a bad angle but if Jacobs comes off the bag there (like a 1B should) could he have kept that ball from going into the OF?

 

And as horrible as Willis was (and it was the worst start Ive ever seen him make), Olivo was a huge steaming pile of fecal matter. Im starting to think that Olivo's complete inability to catch a baseball is becoming psychologically damaging to the team and more specifically the pitchers. Correct me if Im wrong but didnt he have 2 passed balls in like 2 innings?

 

Saying he was "due" is making an excuse for it being okay. But whatever...

 

Olivo's defense has been less than acceptable this year. But he is what he is. But all players will go through it. If a pitcher isn't throwing the ball any where near where he is supposed to passed balls are going to happen. Happens to the best of catchers. Heck, happened to Schneider twice Saturday night. And the way our pitchers have been all over the place this year it really isn't surprising to me that Olivo has a ton of passed balls this year. Of course if he was hitting around .275 or so then all this Olivo bashing wouldn't be happenibg at all. Notice the new love fest for The Amazing? But go ahead with all the exagerrated bashing. I like a good laugh first thing in the morning.

1) How can someone "hate" Willis?

2) How can someone boo Willis?

 

Unless Willis ran over your mother, there is no reason to hate him.

 

Fans who boo players like Willis aren't fans. He has done way to much for the franchise to be booed or hated. Ok, you want him traded to maximize value. Ok, he's having a bad year. Ok, things are falling apart for him. BUT YOU CAN'T BOO HIM.

 

Booing Dontrelle Willis is probably the Marlins fan equivalent of booing Jesus Christ.

 

Anyone who booed Willis should turn in their fan cards and never attend a Marlins game ever again.

 

LOL That' a bit over the top. But I agree with your point.

So you agree then that Willis is, in Swift's words, "a sack of crap"?

 

Ballplayers have moments of greatness and sometimes rough patches like Willis is going through right now. Frankly, I wouldn't use that kind of ugly name calling about any player who has made it to the major league level regardless of his performance when here, not Willis, not Joe Borchard, not Alex Rodriguez (who has been called worse at times in NY) I think it speaks more about the person saying it that the ballplayer in question.

 

I happen to think part of his woes right now may be carrying the weight of all these trade rumors who guys like Rosenthal seem compelled to spread day after day week after week. He pitched well last August. I'm willing to at least wait until then before deciding how I see his future with the Marlins unfolding.

 

I've never been one of the big Willis supporters on his abilities. I think he is a pretty good #3 starter. That's about it. He had a career year a couple years ago and I really never expect him to have that type year again, anywhere. Anyone who does didn't learn a thing when we got CJ back and thought he was going to hit over .300 just because he did it the year before.

 

But I'm also not a "what have you done for me lately" type fan. And I would NEVER boo one of my own players. Alot of response has been posted saying if they are not giving it their all they deserve it. I still don't think booing is deserved. Example: I am one of the biggest detractors here on Miggy because of his lazy style of play, but I still wouldn't boo him. I have been to known to shout out to get off his butt and start trying in the field, but I wouldn't boo him.

 

Same goes for DTrain. He has meant alot to this franchise. He plays with heart and soul and enjoys what he is doing. He is the first to say things were his fault and the first to give the entire team credit when he is doing well. The man deserves some respect even when he is doing poorly. I also don't agree with 2003's theory of trade rumors affecting his peformance. I think the guy is too much of a professional to let things like that affect his on field performance. But that's just an opinion.

 

That said... I have never been against trading him either. Heck, I'm not against trading anyone given the right deal at the right time. Contrary to what some want us to believe, Hanley and Miggy are not the best this franchise has ever seen or will ever see again. Both are very special players for sure, but no one is ever untouchable. I would hate to see Hanley go, but I sure would like to see what he can do in teal defensively with a real 3B that gives his all every play. IF we could get a bat or two in return for Miggy.

One person has a "point of view" and anyone who finds fault with it is a "joker". One person makes one mistake in judgement one night and he a worthless piece of sh*t.

 

It's an interesting moral code. Hypocritical but interesting and very telling nonetheless.

 

And for the record, my comment a few pages back regarding Swift's inane proclamation that Willis wasn't booed wherein I wondered out loud whether he was even at the game was meant to be rhetorical (as in "how could you not notice the booing?") but because it suited his purposes he chose to take it literally and used it as another opportunity to do his usual name-calling thing.

 

Oh, and Bronco Bob, the trade rumors comment I made is an annual one espoused fairly frequently in the press, I take no particular authorship of it, although I think there is some merit in it. If press reports are even close to true his behavior surrounding the issue suggest it weighs on him. But, it was a thought, not something I'm even sure is true, although I suspect so.

This thread reminded me how much I've missed Festa. :thumbup

The players know when they're playing like crap and they don't need to be reminded by the fans who purportedly root for the team they play for. The players know the fans don't like sh*tty play. I never booed the Almanzas, the Bones, or the Loopers, they knew they sucked and I didn't see the need to remind them.

 

Is there anything more disrespectful as a fan, short of shouting obscenities, than booing a player? Probably not.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a player's performance. Isn't this what this message board is for?

 

Dontrelle didn't deserve any of the boos that were directed at him. Besides the various on-field accomplishments, Willis has represented the franchise, the city, and the state with high class. He conducts himself on an off the field the way we wish more athletes and more of humanity would conduct themselves. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is human afterall, but he is a role model.

 

Just because he gets more attention than Miguel and Ramirez doesn't mean he needs to get booed and dragged through the mud when he fails. It isn't his fault the fans fell in love with him in 2003 because he played a child's game with the passion and intensity of a child. Boo the Barry Bonds, AJ Burnetts, and Gary Sheffields of sports who make their peers and the sport look bad.

 

Dontrelle has done waaaaaay to much for the franchise and the community to be treated like sh*t. How soon some people forget.

 

What's next, are we going to boo Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera if they hit .250 next year? Leave that sh*t to the Phillies and Yankees fans.

 

Like peeing in the street?

 

Seriously, no one has done nearly as reckless a thing off the field as Dontrelle (DUI's are a sin as far as I'm concerned...it's selfish and stupid). And yet, it's like it never happened.

 

I'd love to see what would happen if ARod were to pee on Ocean Avenue with his car parked in the median.

 

Willis hasnt been convicted of anything yet.

 

Let the courts decide if he's guilty or not first before we talk about it like its a conviction.

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

HE PEED IN THE GODDAMN STREET WITH A CAR IN THE MEDIAN.

 

I don't care what happens from here on in, man was smart and refused a breathalizer so he can't have the book thrown at him, he was OBVIOUSLY impaired. He's a stupid and selfish SOB, and that's the case for anyone who gets behind the wheel when not completely in control of himself.

 

coming from the same guy who's been in favor of getting Elijah Dukes in the past, I find this rather disturbing.

So you agree then that Willis is, in Swift's words, "a sack of crap"?

 

Ballplayers have moments of greatness and sometimes rough patches like Willis is going through right now. Frankly, I wouldn't use that kind of ugly name calling about any player who has made it to the major league level regardless of his performance when here, not Willis, not Joe Borchard, not Alex Rodriguez (who has been called worse at times in NY) I think it speaks more about the person saying it that the ballplayer in question.

 

I happen to think part of his woes right now may be carrying the weight of all these trade rumors who guys like Rosenthal seem compelled to spread day after day week after week. He pitched well last August. I'm willing to at least wait until then before deciding how I see his future with the Marlins unfolding.

 

Contrary to what some want us to believe, Hanley and Miggy are not the best this franchise has ever seen or will ever see again. Both are very special players for sure, but no one is ever untouchable. I would hate to see Hanley go, but I sure would like to see what he can do in teal defensively with a real 3B that gives his all every play. IF we could get a bat or two in return for Miggy.

 

But Bronco, I know you've admitted lately that Cabrera's been a completely different player defensively these past few weeks, most likely due to his weight loss. Take last night's slow roller that he one-handed and fired perfectly to first. He's been making those plays with ease, which was not happening a month ago.

The players know when they're playing like crap and they don't need to be reminded by the fans who purportedly root for the team they play for. The players know the fans don't like sh*tty play. I never booed the Almanzas, the Bones, or the Loopers, they knew they sucked and I didn't see the need to remind them.

 

Is there anything more disrespectful as a fan, short of shouting obscenities, than booing a player? Probably not.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a player's performance. Isn't this what this message board is for?

 

Dontrelle didn't deserve any of the boos that were directed at him. Besides the various on-field accomplishments, Willis has represented the franchise, the city, and the state with high class. He conducts himself on an off the field the way we wish more athletes and more of humanity would conduct themselves. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is human afterall, but he is a role model.

 

Just because he gets more attention than Miguel and Ramirez doesn't mean he needs to get booed and dragged through the mud when he fails. It isn't his fault the fans fell in love with him in 2003 because he played a child's game with the passion and intensity of a child. Boo the Barry Bonds, AJ Burnetts, and Gary Sheffields of sports who make their peers and the sport look bad.

 

Dontrelle has done waaaaaay to much for the franchise and the community to be treated like sh*t. How soon some people forget.

 

What's next, are we going to boo Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera if they hit .250 next year? Leave that sh*t to the Phillies and Yankees fans.

 

Like peeing in the street?

 

Seriously, no one has done nearly as reckless a thing off the field as Dontrelle (DUI's are a sin as far as I'm concerned...it's selfish and stupid). And yet, it's like it never happened.

 

I'd love to see what would happen if ARod were to pee on Ocean Avenue with his car parked in the median.

 

Willis hasnt been convicted of anything yet.

 

Let the courts decide if he's guilty or not first before we talk about it like its a conviction.

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

HE PEED IN THE GODDAMN STREET WITH A CAR IN THE MEDIAN.

 

I don't care what happens from here on in, man was smart and refused a breathalizer so he can't have the book thrown at him, he was OBVIOUSLY impaired. He's a stupid and selfish SOB, and that's the case for anyone who gets behind the wheel when not completely in control of himself.

 

coming from the same guy who's been in favor of getting Elijah Dukes in the past, I find this rather disturbing.

Was Dukes ever arrested? Was he ever charged? All there were were allegations. With Willis, it was an open and shut case.

The players know when they're playing like crap and they don't need to be reminded by the fans who purportedly root for the team they play for. The players know the fans don't like sh*tty play. I never booed the Almanzas, the Bones, or the Loopers, they knew they sucked and I didn't see the need to remind them.

 

Is there anything more disrespectful as a fan, short of shouting obscenities, than booing a player? Probably not.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a player's performance. Isn't this what this message board is for?

 

Dontrelle didn't deserve any of the boos that were directed at him. Besides the various on-field accomplishments, Willis has represented the franchise, the city, and the state with high class. He conducts himself on an off the field the way we wish more athletes and more of humanity would conduct themselves. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is human afterall, but he is a role model.

 

Just because he gets more attention than Miguel and Ramirez doesn't mean he needs to get booed and dragged through the mud when he fails. It isn't his fault the fans fell in love with him in 2003 because he played a child's game with the passion and intensity of a child. Boo the Barry Bonds, AJ Burnetts, and Gary Sheffields of sports who make their peers and the sport look bad.

 

Dontrelle has done waaaaaay to much for the franchise and the community to be treated like sh*t. How soon some people forget.

 

What's next, are we going to boo Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera if they hit .250 next year? Leave that sh*t to the Phillies and Yankees fans.

 

Like peeing in the street?

 

Seriously, no one has done nearly as reckless a thing off the field as Dontrelle (DUI's are a sin as far as I'm concerned...it's selfish and stupid). And yet, it's like it never happened.

 

I'd love to see what would happen if ARod were to pee on Ocean Avenue with his car parked in the median.

 

Willis hasnt been convicted of anything yet.

 

Let the courts decide if he's guilty or not first before we talk about it like its a conviction.

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

HE PEED IN THE GODDAMN STREET WITH A CAR IN THE MEDIAN.

 

I don't care what happens from here on in, man was smart and refused a breathalizer so he can't have the book thrown at him, he was OBVIOUSLY impaired. He's a stupid and selfish SOB, and that's the case for anyone who gets behind the wheel when not completely in control of himself.

 

coming from the same guy who's been in favor of getting Elijah Dukes in the past, I find this rather disturbing.

 

Well, one, I was sarcastically in favor of Dukes. I think I went even so far as to call a person who was that much of an imminent threat to others and himself as an instant fan-favorite.

 

Secondly, no one ever mistook Dukes for a role-model...and that's my point.

 

Plenty of people own guns, drive drunk, hit their family members. You can't stop it, and just because it happens doesn't mean it's condoned by people, it's just an impossible to curtail situation. That doesn't mean, however, that a person shouldn't be employed, it's just he's not a role model.

The players know when they're playing like crap and they don't need to be reminded by the fans who purportedly root for the team they play for. The players know the fans don't like sh*tty play. I never booed the Almanzas, the Bones, or the Loopers, they knew they sucked and I didn't see the need to remind them.

 

Is there anything more disrespectful as a fan, short of shouting obscenities, than booing a player? Probably not.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a player's performance. Isn't this what this message board is for?

 

Dontrelle didn't deserve any of the boos that were directed at him. Besides the various on-field accomplishments, Willis has represented the franchise, the city, and the state with high class. He conducts himself on an off the field the way we wish more athletes and more of humanity would conduct themselves. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is human afterall, but he is a role model.

 

Just because he gets more attention than Miguel and Ramirez doesn't mean he needs to get booed and dragged through the mud when he fails. It isn't his fault the fans fell in love with him in 2003 because he played a child's game with the passion and intensity of a child. Boo the Barry Bonds, AJ Burnetts, and Gary Sheffields of sports who make their peers and the sport look bad.

 

Dontrelle has done waaaaaay to much for the franchise and the community to be treated like sh*t. How soon some people forget.

 

What's next, are we going to boo Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera if they hit .250 next year? Leave that sh*t to the Phillies and Yankees fans.

 

Like peeing in the street?

 

Seriously, no one has done nearly as reckless a thing off the field as Dontrelle (DUI's are a sin as far as I'm concerned...it's selfish and stupid). And yet, it's like it never happened.

 

I'd love to see what would happen if ARod were to pee on Ocean Avenue with his car parked in the median.

 

Willis hasnt been convicted of anything yet.

 

Let the courts decide if he's guilty or not first before we talk about it like its a conviction.

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

HE PEED IN THE GODDAMN STREET WITH A CAR IN THE MEDIAN.

 

I don't care what happens from here on in, man was smart and refused a breathalizer so he can't have the book thrown at him, he was OBVIOUSLY impaired. He's a stupid and selfish SOB, and that's the case for anyone who gets behind the wheel when not completely in control of himself.

 

coming from the same guy who's been in favor of getting Elijah Dukes in the past, I find this rather disturbing.

 

Well, one, I was sarcastically in favor of Dukes. I think I went even so far as to call a person who was that much of an imminent threat to others and himself as an instant fan-favorite.

 

Secondly, no one ever mistook Dukes for a role-model...and that's my point.

 

Plenty of people own guns, drive drunk, hit their family members. You can't stop it, and just because it happens doesn't mean it's condoned by people, it's just an impossible to curtail situation. That doesn't mean, however, that a person shouldn't be employed, it's just he's not a role model.

And plenty of baseball players aren't role models.

The players know when they're playing like crap and they don't need to be reminded by the fans who purportedly root for the team they play for. The players know the fans don't like sh*tty play. I never booed the Almanzas, the Bones, or the Loopers, they knew they sucked and I didn't see the need to remind them.

 

Is there anything more disrespectful as a fan, short of shouting obscenities, than booing a player? Probably not.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a player's performance. Isn't this what this message board is for?

 

Dontrelle didn't deserve any of the boos that were directed at him. Besides the various on-field accomplishments, Willis has represented the franchise, the city, and the state with high class. He conducts himself on an off the field the way we wish more athletes and more of humanity would conduct themselves. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is human afterall, but he is a role model.

 

Just because he gets more attention than Miguel and Ramirez doesn't mean he needs to get booed and dragged through the mud when he fails. It isn't his fault the fans fell in love with him in 2003 because he played a child's game with the passion and intensity of a child. Boo the Barry Bonds, AJ Burnetts, and Gary Sheffields of sports who make their peers and the sport look bad.

 

Dontrelle has done waaaaaay to much for the franchise and the community to be treated like sh*t. How soon some people forget.

 

What's next, are we going to boo Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera if they hit .250 next year? Leave that sh*t to the Phillies and Yankees fans.

 

Like peeing in the street?

 

Seriously, no one has done nearly as reckless a thing off the field as Dontrelle (DUI's are a sin as far as I'm concerned...it's selfish and stupid). And yet, it's like it never happened.

 

I'd love to see what would happen if ARod were to pee on Ocean Avenue with his car parked in the median.

 

Willis hasnt been convicted of anything yet.

 

Let the courts decide if he's guilty or not first before we talk about it like its a conviction.

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

HE PEED IN THE GODDAMN STREET WITH A CAR IN THE MEDIAN.

 

I don't care what happens from here on in, man was smart and refused a breathalizer so he can't have the book thrown at him, he was OBVIOUSLY impaired. He's a stupid and selfish SOB, and that's the case for anyone who gets behind the wheel when not completely in control of himself.

 

coming from the same guy who's been in favor of getting Elijah Dukes in the past, I find this rather disturbing.

Was Dukes ever arrested? Was he ever charged? All there were were allegations. With Willis, it was an open and shut case.

 

 

 

 

 

Bro did you take a retard pill this morning or what?

 

 

Up until Willis is CONVICTED, everything is an ALLEGATION.

 

 

Open and shut case??

 

IT HASNT GONE TO TRIAL YET

The players know when they're playing like crap and they don't need to be reminded by the fans who purportedly root for the team they play for. The players know the fans don't like sh*tty play. I never booed the Almanzas, the Bones, or the Loopers, they knew they sucked and I didn't see the need to remind them.

 

Is there anything more disrespectful as a fan, short of shouting obscenities, than booing a player? Probably not.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a player's performance. Isn't this what this message board is for?

 

Dontrelle didn't deserve any of the boos that were directed at him. Besides the various on-field accomplishments, Willis has represented the franchise, the city, and the state with high class. He conducts himself on an off the field the way we wish more athletes and more of humanity would conduct themselves. I'm not saying he's perfect, he is human afterall, but he is a role model.

 

Just because he gets more attention than Miguel and Ramirez doesn't mean he needs to get booed and dragged through the mud when he fails. It isn't his fault the fans fell in love with him in 2003 because he played a child's game with the passion and intensity of a child. Boo the Barry Bonds, AJ Burnetts, and Gary Sheffields of sports who make their peers and the sport look bad.

 

Dontrelle has done waaaaaay to much for the franchise and the community to be treated like sh*t. How soon some people forget.

 

What's next, are we going to boo Hanley Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera if they hit .250 next year? Leave that sh*t to the Phillies and Yankees fans.

 

Like peeing in the street?

 

Seriously, no one has done nearly as reckless a thing off the field as Dontrelle (DUI's are a sin as far as I'm concerned...it's selfish and stupid). And yet, it's like it never happened.

 

I'd love to see what would happen if ARod were to pee on Ocean Avenue with his car parked in the median.

 

Willis hasnt been convicted of anything yet.

 

Let the courts decide if he's guilty or not first before we talk about it like its a conviction.

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

HE PEED IN THE GODDAMN STREET WITH A CAR IN THE MEDIAN.

 

I don't care what happens from here on in, man was smart and refused a breathalizer so he can't have the book thrown at him, he was OBVIOUSLY impaired. He's a stupid and selfish SOB, and that's the case for anyone who gets behind the wheel when not completely in control of himself.

 

coming from the same guy who's been in favor of getting Elijah Dukes in the past, I find this rather disturbing.

Was Dukes ever arrested? Was he ever charged? All there were were allegations. With Willis, it was an open and shut case.

 

 

 

 

 

Bro did you take a retard pill this morning or what?

 

 

Up until Willis is CONVICTED, everything is an ALLEGATION.

 

 

Open and shut case??

 

IT HASNT GONE TO TRIAL YET

Ok, with Willis it IS an open and shut case. Better?

 

I, for one, will be completely happy and relieved when Willis is gone. Because when he is, you won't give a damn if he is convicted or not.

BERARDINO: Marlins' Willis accepts the fans' boos without a word

Mike Berardino

Sports columnist

July 15, 2007

 

MIAMI GARDENS On the day after hearing his first boos from the home crowd, Dontrelle Willis put up his dukes.

 

Then he took more punishment.

 

"Ow! Ow! Ow!" the Marlins' struggling ace yelped before Saturday's game as his undersized opponent rushed his locker space, tiny fists flying. "Hey, don't bite me now."

 

 

 

Hanley Ramirez Jr., age 2, just threw his head back and giggled. Then he toddled the few steps back to his father's locker for some between-rounds coaching.

 

The Marlins' shortstop handed the boy one of his heavy black bats.

 

"Hey, what kind of stuff are you teaching your kid?" Willis said. "I ain't no pi?ata."

 

Never would have known that from the unwarranted abuse Willis took from a small but vocal group of fans as he left the mound Friday night.

Granted, letting five straight Nationals reach base in the fourth inning, including three straight via walks, wasn't up to D-Train standards. Nor have things been going Willis' way in recent weeks.

 

His ERA is pushing five. He hasn't won since May 29. But boos?

 

For the most relentlessly positive presence in franchise history? For the winningest pitcher in club history?

 

Is that any way to treat a South Florida treasure?

 

"Kind of shocking," Marlins pitcher Scott Olsen said.

 

"Kind of sad," Marlins catcher Matt Treanor said.

 

"That's South Florida for you," said Nationals hitting coach Lenny Harris, one of Willis' former teammates and a Miami native. "Everybody loves a front-runner."Now don't get me wrong. Booing has been a part of sports since the ancient Greeks were running around in nothing more than a fig leaf.

 

Vocally expressing displeasure is a vital part of the fan's unofficial bill of rights. You might even be able to find something to that effect somewhere amid all that small print on the back of a game ticket.

 

But I would also contend certain athletes in certain cities have earned a pass when it comes to such treatment.

 

How many errors would Derek Jeter have to make to hear boos at Yankee Stadium? How many outs would Craig Biggio have to make to get booed in Houston?

 

John Smoltz in Atlanta. Ichiro Suzuki in Seattle. Torii Hunter in Minnesota.

 

These are among the most unassailable stars in baseball.

 

"Dontrelle is right up there," Olsen said, "on that list with guys you would never expect to hear [boos] for."

 

Until Friday.

 

Willis, of course, acted as though he never noticed the fans' reaction. He's harder on himself than some beer-swilling hater could ever be, but deep down the treatment had to hurt.

 

To be clear, it wasn't a very large percentage of the announced crowd of 11,438 that booed Willis. But that paltry number, combined with those stunning boos, makes you wonder if this market hasn't started taking Willis for granted.

Not to make excuses for the guy, but he's had a pretty challenging last seven months.

 

Not only did he get married, he became a father for the first time at age 25. Talk about a pair of life-altering events.

 

Willis must deal with the legal ramifications of a DUI charge, a problem allegedly of his own making, but he also left the team for a few days recently to help his wife deal with an undisclosed health problem.

 

Then there are the predictable (if unfounded) trade rumors that always seem to come his way this time of year. Oh, and he also walked off a mound last month in Chicago with a tight left forearm.

 

Other than that, things have been just peachy for the D-Train.

 

"People don't realize these guys have personal lives, too," Harris said. "There's a lot of pain. That's life."

 

Harris noted his old teammate "looked like he was unhappy" on the mound Friday, but that clubhouse "bout" with Hanley Jr. could be viewed as a positive indicator.

 

"Whatever Dontrelle is going through, once he gets things taken care of at home or whatever's bothering him, then he'll be back," Harris said. "And if they don't want him here, I'm sure wherever he goes he'll be all right."

 

Until that sad day comes, the least Marlin fans can do is avoid treating their greatest asset like a pi?ata.

 

.

.

.

This is the second story I've seen that mentions just a small number of asinine people. The Herald story mentions a few dozen. For the people who were at the game, what's your opinion. How many boo-birds in the crowd?

As I've clearly stated, I'm against booing. But I think the local papers are blowing this way out of proportion.

You know, it's funny...people boo Dontrelle yet Olsen the Wonderboy gets away scott free....

 

Olsen is 1-1 with an 8.32 ERA his last three starts.

 

Wait a minute...you dont like Scott Olsen?

 

Im fairly positive you have hammered that point home Debbie Does Dallas style.

 

You don't like Mitre and we always hear about it.....You don't like Olivo and we always hear about it.....

 

Rabbethan....Clearly you don't get it....I'm pretty sure Dolphins fans have booed their team....I'm pretty sure Panthers fans have booed their team...are you saying that Marlins fans are the most unique in all of sports? Booing is a part of the sport and whether it's at your own players or the opposing team, it's something that's done...sorry.

When you contribute to paying a dude $7,000,000 a year to throw a ball over a plate from 60 ft, and he performs like that...

 

... you can boo.

 

These are pro athletes, in the entertainment business. That's part of the job.

Rabbethan....Clearly you don't get it....I'm pretty sure Dolphins fans have booed their team....

They sure have. I doubt very many pro athletes have received more hate than Sammie Smith and that very many amateur athletes received more hate than Brock Berlin. South Florida is at the head of the class in anger and hate.

Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people.

 

Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game.

 

With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor.

 

Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow.

 

Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is...

That's an astute observation 2003. I think that you're right about him not even being at the game, as he was on the game thread last night DURING the game, asking "Did Dontrelle get booed there". When I responded yes, his response was "no". Go ahead and check the thread boys and girls, it's right there. Folks, there is a sickness here. I'd say it's funny that you mentioned that 2003, but it's not. There's nothing funny about TSwift. 2003, one day you'll have to explain how this miscreant got chased off the ESPN message board. Either in public or mail me.

 

Wow, you two are f***ing sick.

 

I can go online at the game using a phone, would you like me to do attendance reports from now on?

We're sick? You're the one who booed, and then connected with the game thread from the game to ask, "Was Dontrelle booed?. Why? Why ask that question if you just got done booing him? Plus you called the guy a "sack of crap", and a "selfish and stupid SOB". Your actions and words speak more to your sickness and inner hatred.

Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people.

 

Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game.

 

With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor.

 

Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow.

 

Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is...

That's an astute observation 2003. I think that you're right about him not even being at the game, as he was on the game thread last night DURING the game, asking "Did Dontrelle get booed there". When I responded yes, his response was "no". Go ahead and check the thread boys and girls, it's right there. Folks, there is a sickness here. I'd say it's funny that you mentioned that 2003, but it's not. There's nothing funny about TSwift. 2003, one day you'll have to explain how this miscreant got chased off the ESPN message board. Either in public or mail me.

 

Wow, you two are f***ing sick.

 

I can go online at the game using a phone, would you like me to do attendance reports from now on?

We're sick? You're the one who booed, and then connected with the game thread from the game to ask, "Was Dontrelle booed?. Why? Why ask that question if you just got done booing him? Plus you called the guy a "sack of crap", and a "selfish and stupid SOB". Your actions and words speak more to your sickness and inner hatred.

HE

 

DESERVED

 

TO

 

BE

 

BOOED!

And, despite what it apparently sounded like on TV, Dontrelle did not get booed off the field. Some actually applauded him.

They were booing like hell where I was sitting and I assumed most were applauding him being taken of the field. I just stayed quiet and angry at the crowd acting like this was Philly

 

You wish this 3rd rate fanbase was as good as the Philly crowd....maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself when's the last time anyone showed emotion in that stadium?

 

No one wishes to be a pathetic fanbase like that.

 

I'd rather have 17,000 fans like type that currently attend Marlins games (sans Swifty) over the 40,000 a**holes who go to Phillies games. :thumbup

.

 

haha, that's a funny statement.....i'd rather have 40,000 "a**holes" then the empty stadiums the marlins play in front of....last time i checked, the Phillies have a winning home record while we don't....in one stadium there's juice....in another there's nothing.

 

The pathetic fanbase is the one who doesn't go to the game...instead of the ones who boo at the games.

 

Even though I hate the phillies and their fans, I would much rather have their fans than what we currently have. We just had 11,000 people on a friday night in july. That is flat out horrible. Maybe the philly fans are a**holes or whatever, but they stick by their team (even after 10,000 loses) and are there for many games. If people pay for a ticket they can boo anyone they want. I mean sh*t do you want marlins fans to clap at everything and just accept everything? If you are doing poorly fans have every right to boo you.

At the end of the day I would take 35,000 phillies fans than 10,000 marlins fans no questions asked.

Frankly MVP, I wonder whether Swift was even there last night with that statement they weren't booing. I was going to say you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to not grok Willis' exit last night but that would be unfair to deaf and blind people.

 

Then again, this is the same character who this morning proclaimed "...(the) Pitching coach almost always calls the pitches" (trying to falsely make the case catchers generally are overrated robots who play no part in calling games or strategizing pitch sequences) which of course is completely untrue at almost any level of professional baseball. Certainly not at the major league level. I was stunned no one call the him on it. ML dugouts don't work that way. The catcher looks to the manager first or his subordinate, but usually the former. Pitching coaches provide input when asked, they don't control the game.

 

With Swift I guess people understand it's a sickness but some of it is just so over the top someone just has to respond. He's gone after me because he knows his bully boy tactics won't work here and I've seen it before other places so I know what's coming. He'd like me to disappear which of course I won't. It's gotten to the point where every time I see his sig these days I think of it as a badge of honor.

 

Now Dontrelle is a "sack of crap"...wow, just wow.

 

Tune in tomorrow to see what the newest proclamation is...

That's an astute observation 2003. I think that you're right about him not even being at the game, as he was on the game thread last night DURING the game, asking "Did Dontrelle get booed there". When I responded yes, his response was "no". Go ahead and check the thread boys and girls, it's right there. Folks, there is a sickness here. I'd say it's funny that you mentioned that 2003, but it's not. There's nothing funny about TSwift. 2003, one day you'll have to explain how this miscreant got chased off the ESPN message board. Either in public or mail me.

 

Wow, you two are f***ing sick.

 

I can go online at the game using a phone, would you like me to do attendance reports from now on?

We're sick? You're the one who booed, and then connected with the game thread from the game to ask, "Was Dontrelle booed?. Why? Why ask that question if you just got done booing him? Plus you called the guy a "sack of crap", and a "selfish and stupid SOB". Your actions and words speak more to your sickness and inner hatred.

 

I just want to know is why anyone would be at the game then go on the game thread? Just talk to the person next to you.

I don't boo my team's players because that's just not me. I realize Dontrelle has pitched like crap but it doesn't make me discount what he's done here so I happen to disagree with Swift on that. Many times I agree with his points. People disagreeing on this board and having heated discussions is nothing unusual.

 

What I do find bizarre is the accusation of racism. I do not see where that came from at all! That's a really strong accusation to make and just because you don't like a player doesn't mean it's because of his race.

Racism is sad, but not bizarre. In real life, I have met some people who have surprisingly admitted to being racist. Among these is an upper tier detective, and more than a few regular beat cops or deputies. Why they would admit such things I can't tell you. But it was under circumstances where I was spending lots of time talking to them, I am white and around their age so they felt comfortable, and I was employing them in an off-duty detail. And I heard the words that they would use in talking about black people, and in talking about Dontrelle in particular to one. And I read the same words here by a MB member. That's where it came from.

 

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Read the following story.

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Is South Beach too hot for athletes?

By Michael Cunningham | South Florida Sun-Sentinel

July 15, 2007

MIAMI BEACH

 

Article Tools

E-mail Print Single page view Reprints Reader feedback text size: The South Beach wine-and-dine is a standard recruiting tool for South Florida teams trying to woo players.

 

But now some agents and Heat coach Pat Riley are telling their players to stay away from South Beach in light of recent athlete-police confrontations.Since spring 2006, at least 11 athletes have been arrested in Miami Beach's famed party district. That includes the June 23 arrest of former Dolphins defensive tackle Fred Evans and the December DUI charge against Marlins pitcher Dontrelle Willis. (Evans and Willis have pleaded not guilty).

 

 

 

In eight of the 11 arrests, police allege the athletes failed to heed their orders. It's doubtful the player clashes with cops will stop athletes from enjoying the popular destination, but some of their advisers wish players would find another place to party.

 

"I cringe when I hear my clients are going down there," said agent Mark Bartelstein, who represents about 40 NBA players. He said he tells them to avoid South Beach because he believes in some cases police "mishandled and mistreated" athletes.

 

Heat coach and President Pat Riley also indirectly raised questions about the Miami Beach police. Riley immediately suspended guard Robert Hite after a DUI arrest in January but, after charges were dropped against Hite, Riley didn't discipline forward James Posey for the same charges in April.In explaining the different approaches, Riley said he'd made a mistake with Hite and wouldn't decide on any discipline for Posey until he got the "real, real" facts. Police said Hite's blood-alcohol level was well below the legal limit when he was arrested.

 

Posey has said he wasn't drunk or driving.

 

"The police, they're watching, they know who's there and you're driving away and you're putting yourself in jeopardy," Riley said recently. "We talk to our guys more now than ever about it."Agent Chubby Wells' client, NBA center Dale Davis, scuffled with police and was arrested last year but later was acquitted by a jury. Wells said he's still considering filing a lawsuit over the incident.

 

"I am not saying that people don't do anything bad or that all cops are bad," Wells said. "These athletes travel all over ... and it doesn't happen over and over in those places."

 

Sgt. Bobby Hernandez, the Miami Beach police spokesman, says overzealous police aren't the reason for the string of athlete arrests. Instead, Hernandez said the unique layout of South Beach and the strict public nuisance laws can put athletes at odds with officers.

 

There's a better chance athletes will come into contact with police at South Beach as opposed to other hot spots, Hernandez said, because it's a relatively small area. Most of the action in South Beach is within a roughly 40-square block area.

 

Also, Hernandez said Miami Beach police arrest for minor offenses more than cops in other cities because many bars and nightclubs are near residential areas. So loud music, public drinking or blocking traffic can affect locals who don't wish to be part of the party.

 

"We're a beach community that has to maintain a balance between the residents and the partyers," Hernandez said. "One way to control that is enforcing laws that seem to be minor and go overlooked other places but that affect quality of life tremendously. ... We can't have people playing loud music in the middle of the street at 4 a.m."

 

It's under that kind of circumstance that athletes have quarreled with Miami Beach police in the past 15 months. Most of those police reports include allegations that athletes were arrested when they didn't follow police instructions.

 

In May 2006, police arrested then-NBA player Awvee Storey because they said he blocked traffic and wouldn't move when told. Washington Wizards teammate Gilbert Arenas was arrested after police said he approached them to question their handling of Storey and then wouldn't get back in his car when instructed.

 

Those arrests, as well as that of NFL player Santonio Holmes, came amid a police crackdown on revelers during the South Beach hip-hop party on Memorial Day Weekend. Prosecutors later dropped the charges against all three players, who made $250 donations to a police assistance fund.

 

In April, Posey was arrested after police said he failed to move his car from a traffic lane when instructed by an officer; his case is pending. Former Panthers goalie Ed Belfour's incident worsened when police said he refused to leave a popular club; he later agreed to a plea bargain.

 

Police say Evans, the former Dolphin, resisted after they ordered him to leave a taxi. Police arrested NFL player Dhani Jones when he allegedly wouldn't stop dancing in front of a club (a disorderly conduct charge was later dropped).

 

Thomas Julin, a First Amendment attorney in Miami, said citizens have a Constitutional right to question police action as long as they do not interfere with officers' efforts to maintain order.

 

"If the athlete is questioning the police and thinks they are being too rash, and is arrested just for that, you definitely have the potential that the officer is acting in violation of the person's rights," he said. "But it's unusual that the First Amendment comes into play in those kinds of arrests you see on [south Beach]."

 

Police said Davis, the NBA center, refused to leave a hotel when asked repeatedly, accused police of targeting him because he's black and then walked toward police in what they said was an "aggressive manner." Police shocked the 6-foot-11, 250-pound Davis with a stun gun and arrested him.

 

In December, a jury found Davis not guilty on counts of assault and resisting an officer without violence. Davis told the Associated Press "justice was served." Wells, his agent, said police were too aggressive.

 

"You really have to be careful there because people have their eye on you," Wells said in an interview.

 

Bartelstein, the agent for Storey and Posey, said he's "not trying to lay all the blame on the authorities, because people have to take responsibility," but his experience has shown police to be unfair to athletes."I think there have been cases where athletes have done wrong but also a lot of cases where guys were taken advantage of," Bartelstein said.

That's not true, Sgt. Hernandez said, adding that police "don't discriminate on who gets arrested and who doesn't." He said, if anything, Miami Beach cops are tolerant of party people, but that circumstances like the time, place and manner in which they party dictate the police response.

 

Hernandez said the attitude of suspects toward police matters, too. His "no-brainer" advice for athletes and other visitors to South Beach is to do as told by police.

 

"You are not going to win that argument with a cop out on the street," he said. "You might win later on in court; you might find justice or maybe even win a lawsuit. But that night, you are not going to win."

 

Staff Writer Ira Winderman contributed to this report.

 

Michael Cunningham can be reached at mcunningham@sun-sentinel.com.

 

 

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Racism is sad, but not bizarre. In real life, I have met some people who have surprisingly admitted to being racist. Among these is an upper tier detective, and more than a few regular beat cops or deputies. Why they would admit such things I can't tell you. But it was under circumstances where I was spending lots of time talking to them, I am white and around their age so they felt comfortable, and I was employing them in an off-duty detail. And I heard the words that they would use in talking about black people, and in talking about Dontrelle in particular to one. And I read the same words here by a MB member. That's where it came from.

 

Was Tswift one of these racist police officers?