October 20, 200322 yr The Marlins' aren't doing fine at PPS...They get little revenue off of ticket sales, merchandise, and food sales. That all goes back to Wayne still, since he owns PPS. Those income generating areas are what makes money for most team owners that can go back into things like player's salaries, etc. Otherwise it is a much greater money losing biz than it usually is. Also, most of the seats there do not even face the diamond, which makes it very uncomfortable for most fans to watch the game. If you have ever been to a park made specifically for baseball, you would see the difference. My 2 cents: I think it would be great to have a downtown Miami park right off the Metrorail tracks, which are being expanded. Parking is an issue, but if the park is near Metrorail, a large majority of the population could ride the rails to the games, just like they do it in NY, Boston, Chicago, etc... Even Browardites could park and ride.
October 20, 200322 yr You won't get an argument from any of us! Broward residents would happily make the drive if we're talking about a new stadium. Sure, everybody's a little selfish & wants a stadium in their backyard, but we'll take whatever we can get.
October 20, 200322 yr At this point I don't understand why the Marlins should even bother with Miami anymore. They haven't got the time of day from one single crook...err, politician down there yet. It's time for them to seriously start thinking about locations outside of MDC. And, just as importantly, they need to start thinking about it publicly. It's become crystal clear that the Miami area isn't going to give them squat, so why not put the pressure on them by showing that they are serious about moving to Broward, PBC, Alaska, etc... Anywhere but down there. Besides, it's not like attenance would suffer if they moved out of Miami. It couldn't get any worse than it already is. Miami and M-D County are the ONLY ones giving the Marlins the time of day when it comes to a potential stadium. Broward County has given the Marlins the cold shoulder up to now. Sorry, but facts are facts. I'd love to see a new stadium downtown, accessible to mass transit. I used to take Metrorail to Heat and Panthers games at the Miami Arena and it was great, plus the trains were usually packed with fans from South Dade. I can't see it being any different for the Marlins. But, as already mentioned by others, I'll take a new stadium ANYWHERE in South Florida as long as it means keeping the team here.
October 20, 200322 yr I agree that a stadium would be nice in Downtown. The Metro Rail is now working 24 hours and as someone mentioned, they are fixing the tracks. Hopefully someday we get our wish....
October 20, 200322 yr I seriously doubt they'll have it by the end of this year... maybe December 2053?
October 20, 200322 yr The way of getting this done is up to the Marlins. Give rent money and 50% of all revenues from Stadium guarantee. This is what the city and county want. They want Loria to show them the money, they aren't ready to jump on his offer until he does. The thing is he can't until the season is over. The only problem with this scenario is that the Fish don't draw a big enough crowd to make this option feesible. When you're drawing fewer than 20,000 per game, where's the impetus? Where's the proof that south florida even cares about baseball? These are the real life problems facing the Marlins.
October 20, 200322 yr Where's the proof that south florida even cares about baseball? Well 65,000 people going tomorrow is a good indication. :mischief2
October 20, 200322 yr Well 65,000 people going tomorrow is a good indication. :mischief2 The EXPOS could sell 65,000 tickets to a WS game against the Yankees... Seriously though, I am playing devils advocate here. If I am a politician in Florida who is more concerned with greens-fees than "America's Pasttime," where are the numbers that suggest I should take money away from programs that line the pockets of my political allies and take a chance on building a ball park when I can use that money to buy votes in a more economical way? I'm thinking, "Okay, if I spend millions of dollars, I buy 10k votes by building a ballpark. OR, I can send a $100 bill to 50,000 voters and get better results."
October 20, 200322 yr The only problem with this scenario is that the Fish don't draw a big enough crowd to make this option feesible. When you're drawing fewer than 20,000 per game, where's the impetus? Where's the proof that south florida even cares about baseball? These are the real life problems facing the Marlins. Winning cures all. If the Marlins don't have another firesale and show they are going to compete, then JRS will have fans in the stadium next year. There will be an average of 20,000. Trust me, if the Yanks, or any team (Cubs, Red Sox..etc), traded all their players for minor leaguers, Yankee stadium would be empty too. You might hold on to a few more fans because of the longer tradionand history, but you'd loose more. Our problem here was that we had a new team and building fan base. Then the team was dismantled. No city and I mean, no city in that situation would have been any different. The fact that JRS holds the record for the most people attending the NLDS, NLCS and the World Series. IF that's not proff that we have the baseball fans then nothing will. IF we have sooooo many Yankee, Cubs, Red Sox fans here, who claim to love baseball, why don't they go out and atleast support baseball here?
October 20, 200322 yr The EXPOS could sell 65,000 tickets to a WS game against the Yankees... There would be 65,000 no matter who we were playing in the WS. Hell, there was 67,000 against the Indians in '97. Had it been an A's/Marlins WS JRS would be packed. The fact that the Crankees are here makes no difference.
October 20, 200322 yr Believe me, hook, I agree with most of your points. Getting over that fire sale is a huge hurdle. I think the slow start also added to the poor draw. Even in a WS year, though, the average draw was below 30,000. I think in order to fund a new stadium, you need to keep attendance over that 30,000 person threshold for a sustained period of time. Examples? The M's bring 40,000 to Safeco, and the stinking Orioles bring in over 40,000 per game to Camden. Neither team is in financial dire straights and their parks are almost paid off. Milwaukee brings in just under 30,000 at Miller Park and they are going broke and Detroit is bringing in around 20-25,000 to Comerica and they ARE broke. In unrelated news - but in response to your post - the fact that JRS HOLDS 65,000 may have something to do with that attendence record too... Where were these 65,000 screaming maniacs in June or July or August or September even? Get these spendthrifts to put their butts in seats during the regular season!
October 20, 200322 yr The fact that the Crankees are here makes no difference. Yes the Crankees do make a difference, there are lots of Yankee fans around the state of Florida (most are in SoFla).
October 20, 200322 yr DT is right. The Yankees are a team few people feel "indifferent" about. You either go to see them win or you go to see them lose. If you don't believe me, check the attendence records for your favorite teams. Almost every team the Yankees played this year drew their largest crowd of the season while the Yanks were in town... I'll see if I can track down the hard numbers for you.
October 20, 200322 yr Okay, I have some hard numbers. Outlined below is how the attendance figures faired for playoff teams during the regular season with the Yankees in town: Oakland A's: Avg 26,000 Yanks 44,000 [#1] Minnesota Twins: Avg 20,000 Yanks 28,000 [#1] Boston Redsox: Avg 33,000 Yanks 35,000 [#1] The Yanks almost doubled the attendance at the Colliseum! They also set records in Anaheim, Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit [literally doubled attendance], Kansas City, Seattle, Tampa Bay, Texas, and Toronto. [rankings based on regular season attendance and does not include inter-league play] Actually, the Yanks set attendance records in EVERY city. Wow! Source: http://www.canoe.ca/Baseball/attendance.html
October 20, 200322 yr Until this latest World Series run, even the Yankees attendance wasn't anything exceptional. Winning brings fans. Yankees average attendanc & team's finish in standings: 1984: 22,492 - 3rd place 1990: 24,771 - 7th place 1991: 23,001 - 5th place 1992: 21,589 - 4th place It's a bad example, NY will almost always draw high numbers, but you can see that even the Yankees attendence can suffer when the team's not winning.
October 20, 200322 yr Even in a WS year, though, the average draw was below 30,000. I think in order to fund a new stadium, you need to keep attendance over that 30,000 person threshold for a sustained period of time...... .....In unrelated news - but in response to your post - the fact that JRS HOLDS 65,000 may have something to do with that attendence record too... Where were these 65,000 screaming maniacs in June or July or August or September even? Get these spendthrifts to put their butts in seats during the regular season! Because the nature here is to win and then show. Had the '97 team been kept together, yea the avg attendance would have been over 30K and maybe closer to 35K. Again I ask, why don't the Yankee fans (or other baseball fans) showing up at JRS??? If I lived in another MLB city, I'd be at those teams games win or lose. Why? Because I love the game. I was in Oklahoma City a couple of years ago and went to 3 Red Hawk games. We need people who are baseball fans to show up not just Marlin fans.
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