Ramp Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Nny - look at the list again. 90% of those players have value. One way or the other. That's why I started this topic. I'm not making fantasy trades like some guys here who added nothing to this topic. I'm suggesting trading certain players, and addressing how much value each has right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy 'Cause those aren't dime a dozen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy I agree, but he can't hit. He was a 2nd round choice and projected for the 1st round in his draft class. His value is getting lower every day he ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy 'Cause those aren't dime a dozen... bleh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy I agree, but he can't hit. He was a 2nd round choice and projected for the 1st round in his draft class. His value is getting lower every day he ages. he's 23 and just showed major improvement from 06 to 07 you guys think he's about 30 by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? That's not the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? We kept Miguel two years into Arbitration, why not Hanley? And a year from now (hopefully a month but who am I kidding) we could have a stadium deal in place and he'll get $100 Million and a pat on the butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? pat on the butt. don't turn yourself on now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy 'Cause those aren't dime a dozen... bleh No response? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? pat on the butt. don't turn yourself on now The thought of Hanley signing long-term doesn't make me hard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Calling Andino useless is laughable He's going to make a real good utility guy 'Cause those aren't dime a dozen... bleh No response? Huh? my response is you discounting someone who is 23 that's my response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 You can't project what a utility guy will do in the future... It's like projecting a turd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino, are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? We kept Miguel two years into Arbitration, why not Hanley? And a year from now (hopefully a month but who am I kidding) we could have a stadium deal in place and he'll get $100 Million and a pat on the butt. We kept Miguel only one year into arbitration. Remember he made minimum wage in '06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 You can't project what a utility guy will do in the future... It's like projecting a turd Haha, nice example. But it's true. Andino surely has no future with this franchise. By the time Hanley's out the door he's 26 or 27. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Since utility guys are 2nd to 3rd tier players. They mostly are 2nd hand players that are not good enough to start. Yea you can project them, but its hazy to do so since theyre not good enough and will most likely suck and won't get enough PT to begin with... The way you project utility guys, is guys that are good enough already and fail at the starting jobs at a high level. That's how you project them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Since utility guys are 2nd to 3rd tier players. They mostly are 2nd hand players that are not good enough to start. Yea you can project them, but its hazy to do so since theyre not good enough and will most likely suck and won't get enough PT to begin with... ok so therefore he has 0 value and there is no reason to move him because no one will want him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 A guy who can play multiple positions in the infield and pinch run, at 23, in the NL seems to hold some value to me personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Since utility guys are 2nd to 3rd tier players. They mostly are 2nd hand players that are not good enough to start. Yea you can project them, but its hazy to do so since theyre not good enough and will most likely suck and won't get enough PT to begin with... ok so therefore he has 0 value and there is no reason to move him because no one will want him He has tools. He was a high draft pick. He is still young. Somebody wants him... at least a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 A guy who can play multiple positions in the infield and pinch run, at 23, in the NL seems to hold some value to me personally. I'll take my 30-year-old Amezega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passion Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Since utility guys are 2nd to 3rd tier players. They mostly are 2nd hand players that are not good enough to start. Yea you can project them, but its hazy to do so since theyre not good enough and will most likely suck and won't get enough PT to begin with... ok so therefore he has 0 value and there is no reason to move him because no one will want him He has tools. He was a high draft pick. He is still young. Somebody wants him... at least a little Why would the Marlins, in their situation, not retain a guy like that? I'll plead ignorance on his situation/upside but that seems like a guy you would want on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarlinsLou Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Andino are you serious? Hanley's the SS for another 4-5 years, Uggla at second the same thing, and Coughlan is also coming up through the system. He's useless. Are you kidding me? He's almost sure to be gone by 2010 (if he remains a beast). Do you think Loria will pay him $12 million or there abouts? Yes I think he will. Because he and Hermida will be the only major arbitration cases we will have. (Maybe Willingham if we keep him longterm). And that's it. There is no way this team will pay Olsen or Uggla next year with natural replacements coming through the pipeline. And I think that's a good move on a salary and personnel basis. We won't have any massive payroll obligations except Hanley and to a lesser extent Hermida. Remember, our entire pitching staff will be club controlled or in the first year of their arbitration and cost less than $5-7 million through 2011. This is why they have stockpiled about 25 MLB arms. They know what they are doing even if you haven't figured it out yet. Root for the team. Hope the City of Miami or Loria figure out how to fix whatever funding gaps. And give it a year/year and a half for the pitching to all get MLB. Then watch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 This thread needs to happen July 15thish when Maybin/Volstad/Gaby/Owens/Anibal are ready for the MLB team. Most of those guys will be useful to organizational purposes until then. We should only trade if its to get more value in return. Obviously, that is what the ultimate goal is with anybody you trade. But the thing is they need to go. We have holes in 3rd and even at Catcher and way too many pitching prospects. Alot of these guys are taking up space and are already proven to us what they can do. We need to try something new and revamp as much as we can. We traded our core - so lets trade our mediocre guys please. Of course for the best possible deal. Duh. Well you don't just toss Jacobs, Mitre, Nolasco aside... those are more than capable players, and all 3 do have some upside to them too and why is Kensing and Nestor in your mediocre pile? you don't just toss players with good arms away Nestor seems to be in demand somewhat and is not on any top prospect list. Kensing was brought up too quick, is done as a starter and we have tons of pitching. He's not pitching like a high draft choice, which he was. He needs to be traded while he is still young and we can get some value back in return Jacobs - I used to be ok with, but he's been given enough opportunities and he's proven to just be an injury risk. He doesn't feed off of our park and he can't defend well. He had the lowest OPS of all starting 1st basemen too. We know what his ceiling is - somewhere along the lines of .275 32 HR and a low OPS for such a high HR total. He is what he is. When he came from the Mets, I thought he was more (AVG and OPS wise) but he isn't. We need to see what we can get for him. Mitre is a 4.50 ERA guy and there are plenty of those around. Nolasco is a 4.10 ERA guy and just has that great curveball. He'd make a decent closer but thats not our plans with him here. He needs to go too. Some of your reasoning is terrible. Nestor is our best bullpen prospect right now. You normally don't see bullpen guys in top 10s to begin with. He's probably in the 2nd 10. Kensing is a solid bullpen arm, there's just no reason to move him. You move guys like Miller and Gardner who pitched over their head. We have no idea what Jacobs' ceiling is because he's been hurt each of his first 2 years. He's probably not worth much, but he can definitely be a guy to put up big numbers at 1b if he can just stay healthy. I have no clue what you think you can get for him though. Nothing worth much. Not only that, who do you want to play first? Hammer? Fine, who plays left then? It's not like Jake is blocking anyone. so Mitre is a 4.50era guy, and there are plenty of those around. Who would want him then if they are so easy to get? Ricky Nolasco has made 40 appearances in the league, how the hell do we know what kind of guy he is? If there was a market, and people wanted these players and would give us something useful, then fine, move them. But their not, and they aren't making any money so for us, it works. How is it terrible? We have tons of bullpen arms and that's not counting the arms we have as starters that will switch to the bullpen. We do know what Jake's ceiling is. We know his numbers somewhat, and we've seen him for quite sometime now to see his raw abilities. At least I have. We've seen what Ricky can do, and that's enough to sell me that he's not in our long term plans. There are so many players in the MLB and these fit in the middle to maybe even upper middle in hierarchy. I'm sure we can get something at least equal in value. We drafted, traded etc etc for pitching pitching pitching. Most of those pitchers are not top tier prospects anymore (just look where we rank in the BA prospect list overall). What ever happened to trading some of these pitchers for quality hitting? Isn't that partially the reason why we stacked up so much on pitching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPierre75sbs Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Since utility guys are 2nd to 3rd tier players. They mostly are 2nd hand players that are not good enough to start. Yea you can project them, but its hazy to do so since theyre not good enough and will most likely suck and won't get enough PT to begin with... ok so therefore he has 0 value and there is no reason to move him because no one will want him He has tools. He was a high draft pick. He is still young. Somebody wants him... at least a little Why would the Marlins, in their situation, not retain a guy like that? I'll plead ignorance on his situation/upside but that seems like a guy you would want on the bench. young guys are not made for the bench. Especially a guy like Andino who has been a starter all his life and thinks hes a badass. It takes a different ballplayer to be a good bench guy. It's a different ballgame being in the dugout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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