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200 ABs is not starting him on opening day or even at the all-star break. What's your point?

 

He could very well get 200 or so ABs this season (certainly not 600), but even then I wouldn't have a problem if he doesn't even get called up at all. There is no reason to rush him to the major league level.

 

 

My point is, which you are now twisting your argument around - that Maybin will get a significant amount of PT at the major league level. I started with 200, but he can very well get 4-500.

 

I understand he is probably not ready right now.

 

Regardless, we have a hole in CF. We're rebuilding, and Maybin is on the brink of being ready. The most I can see him in the minors, is until May... The most.

 

Your argument of arbitration does not hold value in this case.

 

Unlike you - I would have a problem if he isn't called up at all. He is a phenom. Phenoms get called up at early ages. You don't waste somebody's youth in the minor league level if you don't have to. He got called up last season for a small stint - and he should get called up this year as well, which he will if he doesn't start right away.

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200 ABs is not starting him on opening day or even at the all-star break. What's your point?

 

He could very well get 200 or so ABs this season (certainly not 600), but even then I wouldn't have a problem if he doesn't even get called up at all. There is no reason to rush him to the major league level.

 

:thumbup :notworthy :thumbup

 

thank-you, that's all we're trying to say.

 

 

Weren't you saying a minute ago that Maybin won't be getting a significant amount of PT this season? I love how you guys slowly changed your argument around. First Ross for 30 hrs, then 36, now I don't get your point. :rolleyes:

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200 ABs is not starting him on opening day or even at the all-star break. What's your point?

 

He could very well get 200 or so ABs this season (certainly not 600), but even then I wouldn't have a problem if he doesn't even get called up at all. There is no reason to rush him to the major league level.

 

 

My point is, which you are now twisting your argument around - that Maybin will get a significant amount of PT at the major league level. I started with 200, but he can very well get 4-500.

 

I understand he is probably not ready right now.

 

Regardless, we have a hole in CF. We're rebuilding, and Maybin is on the brink of being ready. The most I can see him in the minors, is until May... The most.

 

Your argument of arbitration does not hold value in this case.

 

Unlike you - I would have a problem if he isn't called up at all. He is a phenom. Phenoms get called up at early ages. You don't waste somebody's youth in the minor league level if you don't have to. He got called up last season for a small stint - and he should get called up this year as well, which he will if he doesn't start right away.

if hes in the majors and not productive, he still would be considered ready right? unless hes dominate in spring which is not the best to judge a player but its all weve got he should start in the minors keep his confidence up hone his skills and be called up later on in the season

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So in conclusion everybody thinks

 

Cody Ross will hit 36 HR's

 

and Cameron Maybin won't see the light of day in the majors because of arbitration purposes 2-3 years from now and he has Carroll and Ross blocking him + he's not ready.

 

/endconclusion

 

 

lol....

 

 

and 200 ABs is not "significant playing time"

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200 ABs is not starting him on opening day or even at the all-star break. What's your point?

 

He could very well get 200 or so ABs this season (certainly not 600), but even then I wouldn't have a problem if he doesn't even get called up at all. There is no reason to rush him to the major league level.

 

:thumbup :notworthy :thumbup

 

thank-you, that's all we're trying to say.

 

 

Weren't you saying a minute ago that Maybin won't be getting a significant amount of PT this season? I love how you guys slowly changed your argument around. First Ross for 30 hrs, then 36, now I don't get your point. :rolleyes:

 

Cody Ross easily has 30-homer power, and you're crazy not to think so. Scouts have speculated about his power production, and what it could be in full-time duty.

 

Like I said, if he could only improve against right handed pitchers... Because if he did, he'd be almost identical to Uggla at the plate. Short, thick-bodied with a real big swing.

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200 ABs is not starting him on opening day or even at the all-star break. What's your point?

 

He could very well get 200 or so ABs this season (certainly not 600), but even then I wouldn't have a problem if he doesn't even get called up at all. There is no reason to rush him to the major league level.

 

:thumbup :notworthy :thumbup

 

thank-you, that's all we're trying to say.

 

 

Weren't you saying a minute ago that Maybin won't be getting a significant amount of PT this season? I love how you guys slowly changed your argument around. First Ross for 30 hrs, then 36, now I don't get your point. :rolleyes:

 

When the hell did I say that? I think you've got so many people against your opinion that you're mixing us up. I never said he wouldn't, I said it will depend on how his spring training goes and how much he develops that will determine his ability to start on opening day. And if he isn't ready, then no harm is done and we throw Ross and Amezega out there and see what happens giving us the chance to save Maybin for a season where we might actually be contending....instead of bringing him up early and having him hit .193 and then sending him back down.

Again, everything will depend on his peformance in spring training. It's too early to assume that he's capable of being a starting centerfielder at a major league level.

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and ofcourse Ross has 30+ homer potential, the proof is in the freakin numbers he put up last leason in limited playing time. I already projected those numbers over a full season so you can verify that they put him above the 35+ homer and 115+ RBI marks, not to mention 100+ runs.

I'm not saying that he's actually going to put those numbers up exactly as they appear, just that it's logical to assume that in 560+ at-bats he can give you 24-32 homeruns, at least, and anywhere between 80-110 RBI''s.

This will depend on his ability to stay healthy and be consistent, but the fact is he has that kind of production potential.

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If Amezaga is traded at the deadline, we could see Maybin being called up and grabbing 15 starts or so before the end of the season. If he's traded in the off-season then I wouldn't mind seeing Maybin have a good spring training and then make the team as a back up to Ross.

 

In that case he would post about 150 AB's and his numbers would reflect how far along he is and his ability to be the starting centerfielder in '09.

 

In 150 at-bats, if he did something like this he would be ready:

.240+ Avg

6+ homeruns

20+ RBI's

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If he's traded in the off-season then I wouldn't mind seeing Maybin have a good spring training and then make the team as a back up to Ross.

 

Maybin won't be on the bench anywhere. They do NOT want him sitting. It's a waste of time to develop him.

 

Whether it's as a Carolina Mudcat or a Florida Marlin, Cameron Maybin will be starting next year.

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The point Lou is trying to make (an extremely good and accurate one) is that it makes no sense to start Maybin in the bigs in terms of contract status and team level of competition.

 

It does more good to the team to put a Ross or a Carroll or Amezaga out in CF for the time being since the Marlins aren't competing this year. It only improves his confidence and game, extending is tenure for when the team actually needs him. He is 20 years old for christ sake and struggled in his limited ABs last season. There is no reason to start him in CF opening day.

 

 

Your extremely crass mode of discourse is very consistent with your complete lack of knowledge of the game.

 

 

I understand that... But that's not a good enough reason to hold him back right now.

 

Cameron Maybin WILL get 200+ AB's this season.

 

20 years old or not, arbitration 3 years from now or not, he will get 200+ AB's.

 

Do you disagree about that?

 

You guys beat around the bush and don't get to the point.

Are you retarded?

 

Every single person here thinks Maybin gets 200 at bats this year. If he comes up in April, or if he comes up in July, he'll get his at bats

 

Not one single person has argued that... I think

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Carroll can play CF, as can Cody Ross

 

 

So you're saying these are better options than Maybin?

at this point, probably

 

I mean if Cam goes all Hanley on us and blows up as a rook, that would be sweet

 

but he prob needs some at bats in AA anyway

 

Cody is more than capable, and I'm intrigued by Carroll

i would like to see what carroll can do too if he does well we just found our left fielder for 09 if he plays like crud what did we lose nothing

 

Carroll is a joke.

.849 ops in 100abs in carolina and .958 ops in 318 abs with the topes last season ya he is a joke

 

ramp brett was drafted as a third baseman any chance we see him return there next season?

 

Please, let's not talk about Carroll here... He has no future... with anybody.

Yea, an outfielder with good power and can play all 3 outfield spots at age 24 has no future with anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

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So in conclusion everybody thinks

 

Cody Ross will hit 36 HR's

 

and Cameron Maybin won't see the light of day in the majors because of arbitration purposes 2-3 years from now and he has Carroll and Ross blocking him + he's not ready.

 

/endconclusion

 

 

lol....

 

 

and 200 ABs is not "significant playing time"

 

 

lolz I said at least 200. 200 the minimum.

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Carroll can play CF, as can Cody Ross

 

 

So you're saying these are better options than Maybin?

at this point, probably

 

I mean if Cam goes all Hanley on us and blows up as a rook, that would be sweet

 

but he prob needs some at bats in AA anyway

 

Cody is more than capable, and I'm intrigued by Carroll

i would like to see what carroll can do too if he does well we just found our left fielder for 09 if he plays like crud what did we lose nothing

 

Carroll is a joke.

.849 ops in 100abs in carolina and .958 ops in 318 abs with the topes last season ya he is a joke

 

ramp brett was drafted as a third baseman any chance we see him return there next season?

 

Please, let's not talk about Carroll here... He has no future... with anybody.

Yea, an outfielder with good power and can play all 3 outfield spots at age 24 has no future with anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

is that a no on the third base ramp?

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Carroll can play CF, as can Cody Ross

 

 

So you're saying these are better options than Maybin?

at this point, probably

 

I mean if Cam goes all Hanley on us and blows up as a rook, that would be sweet

 

but he prob needs some at bats in AA anyway

 

Cody is more than capable, and I'm intrigued by Carroll

i would like to see what carroll can do too if he does well we just found our left fielder for 09 if he plays like crud what did we lose nothing

 

Carroll is a joke.

.849 ops in 100abs in carolina and .958 ops in 318 abs with the topes last season ya he is a joke

 

ramp brett was drafted as a third baseman any chance we see him return there next season?

 

Please, let's not talk about Carroll here... He has no future... with anybody.

Yea, an outfielder with good power and can play all 3 outfield spots at age 24 has no future with anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

okay. so now the iq of the board has gone into the negatives....

 

we went from talking about Maybin, to now saying Ross has 36 HR potential and that Carroll is a can't miss prospect. You guys are somethin else

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The point Lou is trying to make (an extremely good and accurate one) is that it makes no sense to start Maybin in the bigs in terms of contract status and team level of competition.

 

It does more good to the team to put a Ross or a Carroll or Amezaga out in CF for the time being since the Marlins aren't competing this year. It only improves his confidence and game, extending is tenure for when the team actually needs him. He is 20 years old for christ sake and struggled in his limited ABs last season. There is no reason to start him in CF opening day.

 

 

Your extremely crass mode of discourse is very consistent with your complete lack of knowledge of the game.

 

 

I understand that... But that's not a good enough reason to hold him back right now.

 

Cameron Maybin WILL get 200+ AB's this season.

 

20 years old or not, arbitration 3 years from now or not, he will get 200+ AB's.

 

Do you disagree about that?

 

You guys beat around the bush and don't get to the point.

Are you retarded?

 

Every single person here thinks Maybin gets 200 at bats this year. If he comes up in April, or if he comes up in July, he'll get his at bats

 

Not one single person has argued that... I think

 

 

Are you retarded? That's the only point I brought up. Everybody seems to think I'm predicting he will get 600 ab's? You guys are outta control.

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The point Lou is trying to make (an extremely good and accurate one) is that it makes no sense to start Maybin in the bigs in terms of contract status and team level of competition.

 

It does more good to the team to put a Ross or a Carroll or Amezaga out in CF for the time being since the Marlins aren't competing this year. It only improves his confidence and game, extending is tenure for when the team actually needs him. He is 20 years old for christ sake and struggled in his limited ABs last season. There is no reason to start him in CF opening day.

 

 

Your extremely crass mode of discourse is very consistent with your complete lack of knowledge of the game.

 

 

I understand that... But that's not a good enough reason to hold him back right now.

 

Cameron Maybin WILL get 200+ AB's this season.

 

20 years old or not, arbitration 3 years from now or not, he will get 200+ AB's.

 

Do you disagree about that?

 

You guys beat around the bush and don't get to the point.

Are you retarded?

 

Every single person here thinks Maybin gets 200 at bats this year. If he comes up in April, or if he comes up in July, he'll get his at bats

 

Not one single person has argued that... I think

 

 

Are you retarded? That's the only point I brought up. Everybody seems to think I'm predicting he will get 600 ab's? You guys are outta control.

youve said multiple times that he will be called up by may and that would mean he would either be benched which would serve no point or have way more than 200 at bats. learn some basic logic

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Is this a question of what I think the Marlins should do or what they will do? I'm getting the impression it's the latter.

 

No one can read Beinfest's mind. However, I like to think that Beinfest is competent to realize that it brings the Marlins no benefits to rush him to the major leagues. I'd like to think Beinfest won't give him significant playing time (200 ABs is not significant). We are talking about a late summer call-up, certainly not May as you describe.

 

The Marlins have capable options in CF for the time being. I love Cody Ross and am interested in seeing what Carroll can do. The same for De Aza, but I am skeptical.

 

The infield is the real question. There are no in house options at the moment. I would not be opposed to seeing Amezaga getting starts for the time being. I just don't want Robert Andino near the diamond.

 

 

Yes, it's what they will do. MarlinsLou is the one that turned it around to put the argument in his favor and to get everybody all antsy. Ross to me seems like another "Bruce Aven" type player that come around every so often, do well with sample sizes then fade away. The only future I truly believe - for this season and the upcoming one's, which is no secret - is Maybin. Carroll won't be anything better than a 4th OF. De Aza I like but will never be an on base guy.

 

However, I agree it wouldn't hurt to keep Maybin in the minors for the first month and seeing what Ross & Co. can do. If they suck - then call Maybin up around May and let him be up the rest of the way.

 

Thats my stance.

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The point Lou is trying to make (an extremely good and accurate one) is that it makes no sense to start Maybin in the bigs in terms of contract status and team level of competition.

 

It does more good to the team to put a Ross or a Carroll or Amezaga out in CF for the time being since the Marlins aren't competing this year. It only improves his confidence and game, extending is tenure for when the team actually needs him. He is 20 years old for christ sake and struggled in his limited ABs last season. There is no reason to start him in CF opening day.

 

 

Your extremely crass mode of discourse is very consistent with your complete lack of knowledge of the game.

 

 

I understand that... But that's not a good enough reason to hold him back right now.

 

Cameron Maybin WILL get 200+ AB's this season.

 

20 years old or not, arbitration 3 years from now or not, he will get 200+ AB's.

 

Do you disagree about that?

 

You guys beat around the bush and don't get to the point.

Are you retarded?

 

Every single person here thinks Maybin gets 200 at bats this year. If he comes up in April, or if he comes up in July, he'll get his at bats

 

Not one single person has argued that... I think

 

 

Are you retarded? That's the only point I brought up. Everybody seems to think I'm predicting he will get 600 ab's? You guys are outta control.

youve said multiple times that he will be called up by may and that would mean he would either be benched which would serve no point or have way more than 200 at bats. learn some basic logic

 

 

dude, I said the minimum. I didn't put May and 200 ab's together. I said it was inevitable that he would be called up this season. El Penguino said he wouldn't be called up at all at one point. You guys need to chill it.

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Carroll can play CF, as can Cody Ross

 

 

So you're saying these are better options than Maybin?

at this point, probably

 

I mean if Cam goes all Hanley on us and blows up as a rook, that would be sweet

 

but he prob needs some at bats in AA anyway

 

Cody is more than capable, and I'm intrigued by Carroll

i would like to see what carroll can do too if he does well we just found our left fielder for 09 if he plays like crud what did we lose nothing

 

Carroll is a joke.

.849 ops in 100abs in carolina and .958 ops in 318 abs with the topes last season ya he is a joke

 

ramp brett was drafted as a third baseman any chance we see him return there next season?

 

Please, let's not talk about Carroll here... He has no future... with anybody.

Yea, an outfielder with good power and can play all 3 outfield spots at age 24 has no future with anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

okay. so now the iq of the board has gone into the negatives....

 

we went from talking about Maybin, to now saying Ross has 36 HR potential and that Carroll is a can't miss prospect. You guys are somethin else

 

 

 

I try not to get offensive on the board but do you seriously have ZERO reading comprehension?

 

Every point you've tried to argue, nobody has said.

 

You said Ross doesn't have 30 HR potentiea. Numbers were shown he does, infact, have 30 HR potential. Nobody said he's going to hit 36 HRs next year. But he does have as much as 35 HR potential, yes, expecially if he learns to hit RHP like was originally said.

 

You said Carroll has no future, Ramp said he could have a future because he has power (which he does) and he's still young (which he is) and can play all three OF posisition (Which he can). Having a future doesn't mean being a can't miss prospect, honey.

 

You say nobody thinks Maybin is going to get significant playing time, then talking about a small amount of ABs. Everybody's arguement is that one full year of service time should not be taken off Maybin's clock. So you're looking at as much as 5 months worth of ABs.

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Another thing, you fail to answer my question that I ask you for the 4th time: Do we have any better option right now than to play Maybin?

He is pretty much ready (just about), and we pretty much don't have a choice.

 

You're putting wayyyyyyy too much emphasis on a rookie player and arbitration. Way too much emphasis on that. You're thinking 3 years from now. This club doesn't think like that. We think year to year dude. If we CAN help it, like in Miguel's case where we waited a little and we could afford to do that (that was a veteran team), then you hold out a few weeks to gain an extra year in arbitration. That's the only time you hold a rookie back..

 

But yea, go ahead, just ramble for the 3rd time about putting Maybin in AAA/AA again without addressing anything I just said and bore us all.

 

It is foolish to believe that any club, even the Marlins, does not think longterm.

 

With Maybin and the season the Marlins are likely to have, I have no problem letting him percolate in the minor league for a few months to make sure he is ready for the show. From all reports I've read, he was overmatched after the Tigers called him up late last season.

 

 

So you're saying Maybin should start in the Minors?

 

I can almost guarantee he doesn't.

 

So you think Maybin is our best option to start in CF, we pretty much don't have a choice but use him and he will start next season with the Marlins... and now you are falling back on some line about him getting 200 at bats? You've been writing about fans in this thread being "outta control" and unclear but you seem to be the only one who keeps on moving the goalposts and unsure about where they stand. What exactly do you think Maybin's role will be come Opening Day 2008, since you think he'll be on 25-man roster then, and throughout the season?

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Carroll can play CF, as can Cody Ross

 

 

So you're saying these are better options than Maybin?

at this point, probably

 

I mean if Cam goes all Hanley on us and blows up as a rook, that would be sweet

 

but he prob needs some at bats in AA anyway

 

Cody is more than capable, and I'm intrigued by Carroll

i would like to see what carroll can do too if he does well we just found our left fielder for 09 if he plays like crud what did we lose nothing

 

Carroll is a joke.

.849 ops in 100abs in carolina and .958 ops in 318 abs with the topes last season ya he is a joke

 

ramp brett was drafted as a third baseman any chance we see him return there next season?

 

Please, let's not talk about Carroll here... He has no future... with anybody.

Yea, an outfielder with good power and can play all 3 outfield spots at age 24 has no future with anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

okay. so now the iq of the board has gone into the negatives....

 

we went from talking about Maybin, to now saying Ross has 36 HR potential and that Carroll is a can't miss prospect. You guys are somethin else

 

 

 

I try not to get offensive on the board but do you seriously have ZERO reading comprehension?

 

Every point you've tried to argue, nobody has said.

 

You said Ross doesn't have 30 HR potentiea. Numbers were shown he does, infact, have 30 HR potential. Nobody said he's going to hit 36 HRs next year. But he does have as much as 35 HR potential, yes, expecially if he learns to hit RHP like was originally said.

 

You said Carroll has no future, Ramp said he could have a future because he has power (which he does) and he's still young (which he is) and can play all three OF posisition (Which he can). Having a future doesn't mean being a can't miss prospect, honey.

 

You say nobody thinks Maybin is going to get significant playing time, then talking about a small amount of ABs. Everybody's arguement is that one full year of service time should not be taken off Maybin's clock. So you're looking at as much as 5 months worth of ABs.

 

Ross will never touch 30 HRs in his career. Unless he goes to Japan.

 

Carroll sucks.

 

You guys don't understand what the minimum is huh? Like I said earlier, my argument was that he will be up for a chunk of this season one way or another. Interpret "CHUNK" or "SIGNIFICANT" however you want. El Penguino, MarlinsLou mentioned they want Maybin in the Minors all season. Thats fine. They interpreted this as what they would do, not what's going to happen. I mentioned what's going to happen. You guys are getting all worked up and I love the way the newbs just follow and get influenced by just a couple of voices on this board because of post #. It's hilarious actually.

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I agree up to a certain extent, but the truth is we got Maybin for this yr one way or the other. Maybe we bring him up in May or maybe right away, but he is our starting CF this season.

 

And don't ever bring up Abercombie with Hanley's or Maybin's name in the same sentence ever in your life again.

 

 

None of our Minor league prospects are sexy like an Andrew Miller. That's not a good thing.

 

I think you're the one that doesn't understand the arbitration thing??? Creating a team that will peak at the same time?? They're all more or less the same age? We're already doing this. Holding back a player during a rebuilding year when we have lesser options is rather dumb don't you think?

 

This timeline approach won't save you much with Maybin. He should get a significant amount of PT this season, one way or another. We went through this in '98 and '06. You're putting too much thought into arbitration for a rookie player right now.

 

hey look maybe we bring him up in may or maybe right away and he should get a significant amount of PT this season. wow look what you can dig up looking back a few pages 200 at bats is not a significant amount of PT and the timeframe you mention him coming up would put him far above 200 at bats unless you envision him on the bench which lets look at the past when has beinfest kept a top prospect on the bench outside of september so youve got to completely different stances there call him up in may and the 200 at bats stance which is it

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Another thing, you fail to answer my question that I ask you for the 4th time: Do we have any better option right now than to play Maybin?

He is pretty much ready (just about), and we pretty much don't have a choice.

 

You're putting wayyyyyyy too much emphasis on a rookie player and arbitration. Way too much emphasis on that. You're thinking 3 years from now. This club doesn't think like that. We think year to year dude. If we CAN help it, like in Miguel's case where we waited a little and we could afford to do that (that was a veteran team), then you hold out a few weeks to gain an extra year in arbitration. That's the only time you hold a rookie back..

 

But yea, go ahead, just ramble for the 3rd time about putting Maybin in AAA/AA again without addressing anything I just said and bore us all.

 

It is foolish to believe that any club, even the Marlins, does not think longterm.

 

With Maybin and the season the Marlins are likely to have, I have no problem letting him percolate in the minor league for a few months to make sure he is ready for the show. From all reports I've read, he was overmatched after the Tigers called him up late last season.

 

 

So you're saying Maybin should start in the Minors?

 

I can almost guarantee he doesn't.

 

So you think Maybin is our best option to start in CF, we pretty much don't have a choice but use him and he will start next season with the Marlins... and now you are falling back on some line about him getting 200 at bats? You've been writing about fans in this thread being "outta control" and unclear but you seem to be the only one who keeps on moving the goalposts and unsure about where they stand. What exactly do you think Maybin's role will be come Opening Day 2008, since you think he'll be on 25-man roster then, and throughout the season?

 

 

200 minimum. Meaning he will be up inevitably. I love how you guys think that is what my sole argument was all about. Retarded man.

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I agree up to a certain extent, but the truth is we got Maybin for this yr one way or the other. Maybe we bring him up in May or maybe right away, but he is our starting CF this season.

 

And don't ever bring up Abercombie with Hanley's or Maybin's name in the same sentence ever in your life again.

 

 

None of our Minor league prospects are sexy like an Andrew Miller. That's not a good thing.

 

I think you're the one that doesn't understand the arbitration thing??? Creating a team that will peak at the same time?? They're all more or less the same age? We're already doing this. Holding back a player during a rebuilding year when we have lesser options is rather dumb don't you think?

 

This timeline approach won't save you much with Maybin. He should get a significant amount of PT this season, one way or another. We went through this in '98 and '06. You're putting too much thought into arbitration for a rookie player right now.

 

hey look maybe we bring him up in may or maybe right away and he should get a significant amount of PT this season. wow look what you can dig up looking back a few pages 200 at bats is not a significant amount of PT and the timeframe you mention him coming up would put him far above 200 at bats unless you envision him on the bench which lets look at the past when has beinfest kept a top prospect on the bench outside of september so youve got to completely different stances there call him up in may and the 200 at bats stance which is it

 

 

Lol I love it. Keep it up. I only said Maybin will get 200+ abs to prove to Penguino and MarlinsLou that he WILL be up this season. They claimed he would spend the year in the minors.

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