By the way, you know I have ownership to this bridge in Brooklyn... :whistle

 

Has this been handed down from generation to generation or did you fall into this investment all by yourself?

I bet if Jake goes 3-4 with 2 HR's and a double tomorrow you guys i'll be back on his dick. That's the way most of you on this board are, that's why our fan base is so weak cause many of you are fake and like to ride the bandwagon. I don't see the "Cantu needs to go" comments anymore. If you don't like a player stick to it, but don't change your mind every game, f***.

 

Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Beinfest has fallen in love with these home run hitters a bit too much. And for the team that leads the majors in home runs, they sure aren't very impressive in other offensive categories (except slugging, obviously). What does this tell you? You need a more balanced line up to win. Home runs are overrated.

 

Really?? Where would this team be without them?

another crying thread...almost completely void of any intelligent thought or discussion...oh well

 

 

:thumbup

I disagree. Admin was quoted a week or so ago saying just the opposite. Pitching, speed, and defense. And he did say that if the defense didn't improve there would be changes made. I was all for trading Jake this off season but there was some question as to who to replace him with that was currently on the team. With the interleague play of Cantu at 1B I now think that answer is there. I'm not so sure they will pull the trigger during the season, but it wouldn't bother me a bit to see him gone, Cantu moved to 1B, and Dallas brought up. I still don't think that would be enough to make this team a legitimate play off contender, but it sure would look good trying to get these guys ready for next year.

 

Bob we heard that last year, and the year before that, and did any REAL changes happen ??? Forget what Beinfest says, look at his actions. McPherson hasn't seen this club yet, but he has some of the most impressive numbers in AAA. Its like they dance with all the pretty girls around him, but never ask him to dance. They are afraid he will be the difference maker, and make a winner out of this team. That is not on the fiscal agenda of this management at this time (and I am doubting at anytime in the future -- hopefully they sell the team when contruction begins) and certainly not this year, when they are trying their best to hoard as much money as possible for the stadium or a move if the stadium fails.

 

How many betters are willing to bet they won't make any bigtime trades to help this team ? What will you say then ?

 

I've been saying that all year. But for different reasons, as I have stated in numerous threads. I'm not in on the conspiracy theory. Management does want to win. They have shown that in the past, even if some opt to completely ignore that. But if you want to take it and twist it into a slam the ownership group, then feel free. Just stop trying to convince me. I can only laugh out loud so much, then it just becomes old.

 

 

They tried to win in 2002 to 2005, but since then the focus has been on lets make the team as profitable as we can. What moves were done in 2006 or 2007 to help the team make a push to the playoffs ?

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

This is not an impulsive thread...I'm basically just at the point that I'm sick and tired of watching Jacobs kill this team. His defense is inexcusable. IMO it would take a herculean effort with the bat to make up for his defensive shortcomings, and it's clear he's never going to be a guy who gives you quality at bats. We simply cannot let his defense keep costing us games. His play this year is virtually indefensible.

 

Guys, guys guys...you are missing his whole point of being here, and why he may actually stay. HE IS CHEAP !!! and he won't get crap in arbitration (if he is even eligible).

 

So get ready to hear.....

 

 

YOUR 2009 Starting 1st baseman is.....Mike Jacobs

 

Some of y'all just don't get it. Nothing will change, this management likes it like this. They are making a killing and laughing all the way to the bank. If McPherson came up and we actually won a division, they would have to open the wallets. That is NOT on their agenda. :banghead

 

A) that isn't how arbitration works. As long as he comes in within reasonable guidelines for equivalent first year arbitration he'll be rewarded handsomely.

 

 

 

I know this post isn't directed towards me. But instead to some other posts. But let's see if a better understanding of the process is clears a couple things up.

 

The way it was explained to me is...Arbitration eligibility means he can finally argue what we are offering him. We offer one thing. Him and his agent want something more. The 2 sides don't agree on anything in between, so it goes to a panel to decide. I believe if the player and his agent are still unhappy their only alternative is to sit out the remainder of his arbitration years. He can't play anywhere. And then I'm not sure what happens. I think the team has to sign him but then can release him or trade him. Trade being the optimum because at least they get something in return.

 

It's not like the team is "offering him arbitration" as some like to say. He has earned the right to be arbitration eligible because he has thus far fulfilled his end of the original contract. Played in the minor league systems and has played in the majors for 3 years for whatever the MLB club has deemed they want to pay him. And I believe there is also a tiny loop hole in that. When the club gives the annual pay raises he can say he deserves more and then the club decides if he is right. But it also costs him $10K to do that.

I disagree. Admin was quoted a week or so ago saying just the opposite. Pitching, speed, and defense. And he did say that if the defense didn't improve there would be changes made. I was all for trading Jake this off season but there was some question as to who to replace him with that was currently on the team. With the interleague play of Cantu at 1B I now think that answer is there. I'm not so sure they will pull the trigger during the season, but it wouldn't bother me a bit to see him gone, Cantu moved to 1B, and Dallas brought up. I still don't think that would be enough to make this team a legitimate play off contender, but it sure would look good trying to get these guys ready for next year.

 

Bob we heard that last year, and the year before that, and did any REAL changes happen ??? Forget what Beinfest says, look at his actions. McPherson hasn't seen this club yet, but he has some of the most impressive numbers in AAA. Its like they dance with all the pretty girls around him, but never ask him to dance. They are afraid he will be the difference maker, and make a winner out of this team. That is not on the fiscal agenda of this management at this time (and I am doubting at anytime in the future -- hopefully they sell the team when contruction begins) and certainly not this year, when they are trying their best to hoard as much money as possible for the stadium or a move if the stadium fails.

 

How many betters are willing to bet they won't make any bigtime trades to help this team ? What will you say then ?

 

I've been saying that all year. But for different reasons, as I have stated in numerous threads. I'm not in on the conspiracy theory. Management does want to win. They have shown that in the past, even if some opt to completely ignore that. But if you want to take it and twist it into a slam the ownership group, then feel free. Just stop trying to convince me. I can only laugh out loud so much, then it just becomes old.

 

 

They tried to win in 2002 to 2005, but since then the focus has been on lets make the team as profitable as we can. What moves were done in 2006 or 2007 to help the team make a push to the playoffs ?

 

Absolutely none. Those years, and this one have been for building for a play off run. Period. That's been the "company slogan" all along. A quick start this year dosen't change that. It's still about the kids learning curve and making a push towards the play offs in the very near future. That very near future I am predicting to be next year. IMO, it's a far better way of doing things right now than the way alot of teams do things. Bring up the youngsters, help the grow, and then when it is really feasible for the big trophy, fill in the blanks and go for it. I for one wouldn't want to be the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Indians, etc... etc... Teams that mortgage the future for winning RIGHT NOW and then fail year after year.

I disagree. Admin was quoted a week or so ago saying just the opposite. Pitching, speed, and defense. And he did say that if the defense didn't improve there would be changes made. I was all for trading Jake this off season but there was some question as to who to replace him with that was currently on the team. With the interleague play of Cantu at 1B I now think that answer is there. I'm not so sure they will pull the trigger during the season, but it wouldn't bother me a bit to see him gone, Cantu moved to 1B, and Dallas brought up. I still don't think that would be enough to make this team a legitimate play off contender, but it sure would look good trying to get these guys ready for next year.

 

Bob we heard that last year, and the year before that, and did any REAL changes happen ??? Forget what Beinfest says, look at his actions. McPherson hasn't seen this club yet, but he has some of the most impressive numbers in AAA. Its like they dance with all the pretty girls around him, but never ask him to dance. They are afraid he will be the difference maker, and make a winner out of this team. That is not on the fiscal agenda of this management at this time (and I am doubting at anytime in the future -- hopefully they sell the team when contruction begins) and certainly not this year, when they are trying their best to hoard as much money as possible for the stadium or a move if the stadium fails.

 

How many betters are willing to bet they won't make any bigtime trades to help this team ? What will you say then ?

 

I've been saying that all year. But for different reasons, as I have stated in numerous threads. I'm not in on the conspiracy theory. Management does want to win. They have shown that in the past, even if some opt to completely ignore that. But if you want to take it and twist it into a slam the ownership group, then feel free. Just stop trying to convince me. I can only laugh out loud so much, then it just becomes old.

 

 

They tried to win in 2002 to 2005, but since then the focus has been on lets make the team as profitable as we can. What moves were done in 2006 or 2007 to help the team make a push to the playoffs ?

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

 

Ya know, it's good to see one of the young posters on this board that dosen't have the attitude everything needs to be done NOW, screw the future. Too bad patience can't be taught. This current team growing and learning together and then have one or two spots filled in will be going into a new home winners with a future destined for alot more winning seasons.

It's not like the team is "offering him arbitration" as some like to say.

The player earned the right to be arbitration eligible but the team has the option to offer it to him or decline to offer it to him. That's why it's said that such and such was offered arbitration. If the team declines to offer arbitration then the player can sign elsewhere.

On building for the future, to keep this roster together for the '09 season will take ~$50 million so unless Loria decides to spend the revenue sharing I see more "building for the future" moves coming up.

As long as the Marlins are still in Florida in 2011 and in a new stadium, with reasonable ownership I will be happy

As long as the Marlins are still in Florida in 2011 and in a new stadium, with reasonable ownership I will be happy

 

 

I 2nd that

By the way, you know I have ownership to this bridge in Brooklyn... :whistle

 

Has this been handed down from generation to generation or did you fall into this investment all by yourself?

 

I bought it from the same dude that made up the numbers you believe that says this team is only breaking even.

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

 

Show me. Hanley is nothing but a tool for them right now. There is a reason the money doesn't kick in til next year. Its so they can deal him before they have to pay a cent of it. The team he is traded to will not have to negotiate for years to come, its a win for them, and a win for Loria if he can get 2 or 3 cheap rookies for next year. His payroll remains the lowest, and we get raw material that we can only HOPE is good.

Absolutely none. Those years, and this one have been for building for a play off run. Period. That's been the "company slogan" all along. A quick start this year dosen't change that. It's still about the kids learning curve and making a push towards the play offs in the very near future. That very near future I am predicting to be next year. IMO, it's a far better way of doing things right now than the way alot of teams do things. Bring up the youngsters, help the grow, and then when it is really feasible for the big trophy, fill in the blanks and go for it. I for one wouldn't want to be the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Indians, etc... etc... Teams that mortgage the future for winning RIGHT NOW and then fail year after year.

 

So even if you are close, just give up on those years ? For what to build on a hope ? You have no idea of the future, and you can't count that team will build for a future. If this team is 2 games out of 1st place on July 30th, are you sure you'll be okay with Loria, Beinfest and Allen sitting on their duffs and not doing anything while Philly makes two moves that are almost certain to make them better ? What if Hanely is traded like I believe ? You were two games out with Hanley but don't have him the next year, will you still feel the same ?

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

 

Show me. Hanley is nothing but a tool for them right now. There is a reason the money doesn't kick in til next year. Its so they can deal him before they have to pay a cent of it. The team he is traded to will not have to negotiate for years to come, its a win for them, and a win for Loria if he can get 2 or 3 cheap rookies for next year. His payroll remains the lowest, and we get raw material that we can only HOPE is good.

Show you? You mentioned the first one, Hanley Ramirez. He apparently doesn't count because you are ridiculous. Behind that, we have guys like Uggla, Willingham, Cantu, Hermida, JJ, Volstad, Hernandez, Sanchez, Miller, Maybin, Tucker, Thompson, Sinkbiel. They don't count either though, right?

On building for the future, to keep this roster together for the '09 season will take ~$50 million so unless Loria decides to spend the revenue sharing I see more "building for the future" moves coming up.

 

See I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can almost guarentee that Hanley wears the uniform of another team next year.

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

 

Show me. Hanley is nothing but a tool for them right now. There is a reason the money doesn't kick in til next year. Its so they can deal him before they have to pay a cent of it. The team he is traded to will not have to negotiate for years to come, its a win for them, and a win for Loria if he can get 2 or 3 cheap rookies for next year. His payroll remains the lowest, and we get raw material that we can only HOPE is good.

Show you? You mentioned the first one, Hanley Ramirez. He apparently doesn't count because you are ridiculous. Behind that, we have guys like Uggla, Willingham, Cantu, Hermida, JJ, Volstad, Hernandez, Sanchez, Miller, Maybin, Tucker, Thompson, Sinkbiel. They don't count either though, right?

 

Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it. And in this case we're doomed to watch Loria repeat the same old story. You just don't get it. These guys will all be gone once they command any kind of money.

It's not like the team is "offering him arbitration" as some like to say.

The player earned the right to be arbitration eligible but the team has the option to offer it to him or decline to offer it to him. That's why it's said that such and such was offered arbitration. If the team declines to offer arbitration then the player can sign elsewhere.

 

I would have to see that rule with the link to buy into this explanation. I don't ever remember any player having this happen to and most certainly never a Marlins player. I can see the team cutting or trading the player if the thought they wouldn't be able to agree on terms, but this explanation would make no sense at all.

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

 

Show me. Hanley is nothing but a tool for them right now. There is a reason the money doesn't kick in til next year. Its so they can deal him before they have to pay a cent of it. The team he is traded to will not have to negotiate for years to come, its a win for them, and a win for Loria if he can get 2 or 3 cheap rookies for next year. His payroll remains the lowest, and we get raw material that we can only HOPE is good.

Show you? You mentioned the first one, Hanley Ramirez. He apparently doesn't count because you are ridiculous. Behind that, we have guys like Uggla, Willingham, Cantu, Hermida, JJ, Volstad, Hernandez, Sanchez, Miller, Maybin, Tucker, Thompson, Sinkbiel. They don't count either though, right?

 

Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it. And in this case we're doomed to watch Loria repeat the same old story. You just don't get it. These guys will all be gone once they command any kind of money.

I haven't forgotten the past, but I understand it.

On building for the future, to keep this roster together for the '09 season will take ~$50 million so unless Loria decides to spend the revenue sharing I see more "building for the future" moves coming up.

 

I don't think anyone ever said this entire roster would be kept together. Does any team? The core, yes. And I think the Hanley signing shows that the $50 mil cap may be a close estimate for next year's "cap." I can see signing some of the arb elig players to 1 year deals with MAYBE signing Uggla long term with a heavily back loaded deal. No pitchers will be signed long term. I doubt ever. I believe we also free up around $4 mil from players that are no longer here but we are still paying for. This post hints at too much negativity and conspiracy theories that just haven't been said in the plans for building the team by anyone inside the org. Only by those outside looking in that want nothing more than to win now at any expense.

Absolutely none. Those years, and this one have been for building for a play off run. Period. That's been the "company slogan" all along. A quick start this year dosen't change that. It's still about the kids learning curve and making a push towards the play offs in the very near future. That very near future I am predicting to be next year. IMO, it's a far better way of doing things right now than the way alot of teams do things. Bring up the youngsters, help the grow, and then when it is really feasible for the big trophy, fill in the blanks and go for it. I for one wouldn't want to be the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, Indians, etc... etc... Teams that mortgage the future for winning RIGHT NOW and then fail year after year.

 

So even if you are close, just give up on those years ? For what to build on a hope ? You have no idea of the future, and you can't count that team will build for a future. If this team is 2 games out of 1st place on July 30th, are you sure you'll be okay with Loria, Beinfest and Allen sitting on their duffs and not doing anything while Philly makes two moves that are almost certain to make them better ? What if Hanely is traded like I believe ? You were two games out with Hanley but don't have him the next year, will you still feel the same ?

 

So when Hanley suits up next year in the Teal are you going to start saying he will be gone by the dead line? And what happens when he is still here after the dead line? More of the same? IMO, your theories are even worse than the conspiracy theorists. Hanley will be here next year. And the year after. And most likely the year after. Count on it.

The ones where they started building a team for the future?

 

Show me. Hanley is nothing but a tool for them right now. There is a reason the money doesn't kick in til next year. Its so they can deal him before they have to pay a cent of it. The team he is traded to will not have to negotiate for years to come, its a win for them, and a win for Loria if he can get 2 or 3 cheap rookies for next year. His payroll remains the lowest, and we get raw material that we can only HOPE is good.

Show you? You mentioned the first one, Hanley Ramirez. He apparently doesn't count because you are ridiculous. Behind that, we have guys like Uggla, Willingham, Cantu, Hermida, JJ, Volstad, Hernandez, Sanchez, Miller, Maybin, Tucker, Thompson, Sinkbiel. They don't count either though, right?

 

I was going to go with almost the same statement. But decided against it, even if I did hint at it because basically it's what I also think. I'm not so sure it's exactly fair to Mungo, but for lack of a better or more polite word...

 

As far as the players you mentioned... If Hammer does nothing for his back problem it wouldn't surprise me to see him gone. He's already missed 50 games out of 82 this year and the entire team is treating him as if he is a piece of fine china, afraid of hurting him again. Plus we have the guys to step up and take his place, at least defensively. Hermida I waver on because of the talent coming up. But the team seems so sold on him I think he signs at least one more one year deal to see and then MAYBE a longer term contract if he fulfills expectations. Uggla may get a long term, but heavily back loaded to fit into the new stadium deal and to see if he can keep this pace up another year. Maybin will/should be on the Opening Day roster next year. And I can see Cantu at 1B with Dallas at 3B. Probably before this year is over. 2 guys that will be gone are Helms and Gonzo. I have always thought Andino was being showcased every time he got called up, but I'm starting to waver on that. And a guy like De Aza staying on to relieve the OFers isn't out of the question. It would depend on what Alfredo and Cody are going to want and if they will take things to arbitration as to whether they will be staying. Personally I would keep Alfredo and let Cody slip away if it came down to one or the other. Probably not a popular opinion.

It's not like the team is "offering him arbitration" as some like to say.

The player earned the right to be arbitration eligible but the team has the option to offer it to him or decline to offer it to him. That's why it's said that such and such was offered arbitration. If the team declines to offer arbitration then the player can sign elsewhere.

 

I would have to see that rule with the link to buy into this explanation. I don't ever remember any player having this happen to and most certainly never a Marlins player. I can see the team cutting or trading the player if the thought they wouldn't be able to agree on terms, but this explanation would make no sense at all.

 

It happened just last year with Migeul Olivo, the team did not tender him a contract.

 

Dallas McPherson was also not tendered a contract and is why we were able to sign him.

On building for the future, to keep this roster together for the '09 season will take ~$50 million so unless Loria decides to spend the revenue sharing I see more "building for the future" moves coming up.

 

See I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can almost guarentee that Hanley wears the uniform of another team next year.

 

 

He doesn't mean that Hanley is gone, rather that a lot of other players are going to be. We have upwards of 20 people hitting arbitration (I'm unsure of some super-2's), plus Hanley's (5.5m) and Andrew's (1.5-2m) MLB contracts, plus Wes's buyout ($750,000). So a lot of players are going to be gone (Players like Hammer, Olsen, ect, not players like Hanley) unless Loria opens his pocketbook.

 

If anything the contract signifies that the team is not going to trade Hanley anytime soon.

See I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can almost guarentee that Hanley wears the uniform of another team next year.

 

I'll take a lifetime ban bet on this one.