August 17, 200818 yr Not shocking. Money in Loria's pocket is all that matters to him, its why you dont currently see higher payrolls when they easily could be.
August 17, 200818 yr The Dolphins situation isn't a firesale because you can expect quality players in the draft in the NFL. A 2nd round pick, with a competent GM, is an almost guaranteed starter. Teams trade or cut expensive players for cheap ones and draft picks all the time in football, even the great teams like the Patriots. That's not true, at all. A draft pick is never a sure thing. There are 1st round busts every year. As for the Patriots...they got Tom Brady. That's the exception. It's pretty rare to turn a guy into a stud, when you draft him in the 6th round. NFL draft picks are safer than MLB prospects, you could say...but just like prospects in MLB, prospects in the NFL are never a sure thing. That's why they're called prospects. You take a chance on their potential, and hope they fulfill, b/c you're looking to rebuild for the long-haul. The Dolphins are rebuilding...and I believe the same is applied to the Marlins after the '05 season. They might not have improved after '03, but they certainly kept the team together (for the most part), and they underachieved the next 2 years. They felt it was time for a change. So...they did just that. As for the people who say the '03 team overachieved...I'll disagree. That team was the complete opposite of this year's team. That team was awesome defensively, and they had very good, young starting staff (that was healthy all year, for the most part). The lineup also had a nice balance of speed combined with some power. So I disagree that they couldn't compete the next two years b/c they overachieved, to begin with.
August 17, 200818 yr Not shocking. Money in Loria's pocket is all that matters to him, its why you dont currently see higher payrolls when they easily could be. I'm critical of Loria but even I can admit a lot of these players don't deserve to get paid after this season. However it would be nice if we could turn a Jacobs into a Texiera, and a Willingham into a Dunn... with a couple more relievers, that could be a World Series contender next year, and we'd still have one of the lowest payrolls in baesball. But I'm OK with more prospects as well.
August 17, 200818 yr The Dolphins situation isn't a firesale because you can expect quality players in the draft in the NFL. A 2nd round pick, with a competent GM, is an almost guaranteed starter. Teams trade or cut expensive players for cheap ones and draft picks all the time in football, even the great teams like the Patriots. That's not true, at all. A draft pick is never a sure thing. There are 1st round busts every year. As for the Patriots...they got Tom Brady. That's the exception. It's pretty rare to turn a guy into a stud, when you draft him in the 6th round. NFL draft picks are safer than MLB prospects, you could say...but just like prospects in MLB, prospects in the NFL are never a sure thing. That's why they're called prospects. You take a chance on their potential, and hope they fulfill, b/c you're looking to rebuild for the long-haul. The Dolphins are rebuilding...and I believe the same applied to the Marlins after the '05 season. They might not have improved after '03, but they certainly kept the team together (for the most part), and they underachieved the next 2 years. They felt it was time for a change. So...they did just that. As for the people who say the '03 team overachieved...I'll disagree. That team was the complete opposite of this year's team. That team was awesome defensively, and they had very good, young starting pitching (that was healthy all year, for the most part). The lineup also had a nice balance of speed combined with some power. So I disagree that they couldn't compete the next two years b/c they overachieved, to begin with...and the front office didn't improve from that. The '03 team definitely overachieved. Our most consistent pitchers that year were arguably Redman and Pavano (along with Penny). We got by with Ugy and Looper taking turns blowing saves. Alex Gonzalez had his best offensive season in the bigs, Encarnacion contributed a lot, Pierre had a career year, Lowell had a career year... We won a ton of close games as well, something you can't always count on. I honestly can't see how an unbiased Marlins fan can say they expected the '03 team to be in the playoffs, let alone a World Series champion. Especially doing it without any contribution from Burnett, Penny having a mediocre year, and Beckett spending more time on the DL.
August 17, 200818 yr The Dolphins situation isn't a firesale because you can expect quality players in the draft in the NFL. A 2nd round pick, with a competent GM, is an almost guaranteed starter. Teams trade or cut expensive players for cheap ones and draft picks all the time in football, even the great teams like the Patriots. That's not true, at all. A draft pick is never a sure thing. There are 1st round busts every year. As for the Patriots...they got Tom Brady. That's the exception. It's pretty rare to turn a guy into a stud, when you draft him in the 6th round. NFL draft picks are safer than MLB prospects, you could say...but just like prospects in MLB, prospects in the NFL are never a sure thing. That's why they're called prospects. You take a chance on their potential, and hope they fulfill, b/c you're looking to rebuild for the long-haul. The Dolphins are rebuilding...and I believe the same is applied to the Marlins after the '05 season. They might not have improved after '03, but they certainly kept the team together (for the most part), and they underachieved the next 2 years. They felt it was time for a change. So...they did just that. A draft pick is never a sure thing but that's how all the teams in the NFL are built and then they add a couple of guys via trade or free agency. You can't go out and get too many high priced players because of salary cap restrictions. The Dolphins haven't had a good draft in about a decade and that's why they are where they are now.
August 17, 200818 yr The Dolphins situation isn't a firesale because you can expect quality players in the draft in the NFL. A 2nd round pick, with a competent GM, is an almost guaranteed starter. Teams trade or cut expensive players for cheap ones and draft picks all the time in football, even the great teams like the Patriots. That's not true, at all. A draft pick is never a sure thing. There are 1st round busts every year. As for the Patriots...they got Tom Brady. That's the exception. It's pretty rare to turn a guy into a stud, when you draft him in the 6th round. NFL draft picks are safer than MLB prospects, you could say...but just like prospects in MLB, prospects in the NFL are never a sure thing. That's why they're called prospects. You take a chance on their potential, and hope they fulfill, b/c you're looking to rebuild for the long-haul. The Dolphins are rebuilding...and I believe the same applied to the Marlins after the '05 season. They might not have improved after '03, but they certainly kept the team together (for the most part), and they underachieved the next 2 years. They felt it was time for a change. So...they did just that. As for the people who say the '03 team overachieved...I'll disagree. That team was the complete opposite of this year's team. That team was awesome defensively, and they had very good, young starting pitching (that was healthy all year, for the most part). The lineup also had a nice balance of speed combined with some power. So I disagree that they couldn't compete the next two years b/c they overachieved, to begin with...and the front office didn't improve from that. The '03 team definitely overachieved. Our most consistent pitchers that year were arguably Redman and Pavano (along with Penny). We got by with Ugy and Looper taking turns blowing saves. Alex Gonzalez had his best offensive season in the bigs, Encarnacion contributed a lot, Pierre had a career year, Lowell had a career year... We won a ton of close games as well, something you can't always count on. I honestly can't see how an unbiased Marlins fan can say they expected the '03 team to be in the playoffs, let alone a World Series champion. Especially doing it without any contribution from Burnett, Penny having a mediocre year, and Beckett spending more time on the DL. I didn't expect them to make the playoffs, but I expected them to be competitive, in the standings, till September. I thought the '08 Marlins would lose at least 90 games. You can definitely say some players overachieved...but, really...that happens with a lot of World Series teams. It's about talent, and how fortunate you are (with certain players stepping up / injuries).
August 17, 200818 yr The Dolphins situation isn't a firesale because you can expect quality players in the draft in the NFL. A 2nd round pick, with a competent GM, is an almost guaranteed starter. Teams trade or cut expensive players for cheap ones and draft picks all the time in football, even the great teams like the Patriots. That's not true, at all. A draft pick is never a sure thing. There are 1st round busts every year. As for the Patriots...they got Tom Brady. That's the exception. It's pretty rare to turn a guy into a stud, when you draft him in the 6th round. NFL draft picks are safer than MLB prospects, you could say...but just like prospects in MLB, prospects in the NFL are never a sure thing. That's why they're called prospects. You take a chance on their potential, and hope they fulfill, b/c you're looking to rebuild for the long-haul. The Dolphins are rebuilding...and I believe the same is applied to the Marlins after the '05 season. They might not have improved after '03, but they certainly kept the team together (for the most part), and they underachieved the next 2 years. They felt it was time for a change. So...they did just that. A draft pick is never a sure thing but that's how all the teams in the NFL are built and then they add a couple of guys via trade or free agency. You can't go out and get too many high priced players because of salary cap restrictions. The Dolphins haven't had a good draft in about a decade and that's why they are where they are now. That was my point. As for the Dolphins organization, you are definitely right. Good luck the rest of the way. Again...I could care less about what they do. I was just using them for an analogy.
August 17, 200818 yr The Dolphins situation isn't a firesale because you can expect quality players in the draft in the NFL. A 2nd round pick, with a competent GM, is an almost guaranteed starter. Teams trade or cut expensive players for cheap ones and draft picks all the time in football, even the great teams like the Patriots. That's not true, at all. A draft pick is never a sure thing. There are 1st round busts every year. As for the Patriots...they got Tom Brady. That's the exception. It's pretty rare to turn a guy into a stud, when you draft him in the 6th round. NFL draft picks are safer than MLB prospects, you could say...but just like prospects in MLB, prospects in the NFL are never a sure thing. That's why they're called prospects. You take a chance on their potential, and hope they fulfill, b/c you're looking to rebuild for the long-haul. The Dolphins are rebuilding...and I believe the same applied to the Marlins after the '05 season. They might not have improved after '03, but they certainly kept the team together (for the most part), and they underachieved the next 2 years. They felt it was time for a change. So...they did just that. As for the people who say the '03 team overachieved...I'll disagree. That team was the complete opposite of this year's team. That team was awesome defensively, and they had very good, young starting pitching (that was healthy all year, for the most part). The lineup also had a nice balance of speed combined with some power. So I disagree that they couldn't compete the next two years b/c they overachieved, to begin with...and the front office didn't improve from that. The '03 team definitely overachieved. Our most consistent pitchers that year were arguably Redman and Pavano (along with Penny). We got by with Ugy and Looper taking turns blowing saves. Alex Gonzalez had his best offensive season in the bigs, Encarnacion contributed a lot, Pierre had a career year, Lowell had a career year... We won a ton of close games as well, something you can't always count on. I honestly can't see how an unbiased Marlins fan can say they expected the '03 team to be in the playoffs, let alone a World Series champion. Especially doing it without any contribution from Burnett, Penny having a mediocre year, and Beckett spending more time on the DL. I didn't expect them to make the playoffs, but I expected them to be competitive, in the standings, till September. I thought the '08 Marlins would lose at least 90 games. You can definitely say some players overachieved...but, really...that happens with a lot of World Series teams. It's about talent, and how fortunate you are (with certain players stepping up / injuries). I agree completely with this, but thats why when there were no improvements made to that team, and it was essentially worse in both '04 and '05, it was unfair of the front office to assume they built a flawed team and blow it all up. Of course thats not really what happened... it was a mixture, some players were flawed, but some were just going to cost too much money. We could've gotten rid of some guys that looked like they'd go on the decline or were cancers (Delgado, Burnett) and still kept a decent payroll, building around guys like Beckett and Cabrera, but they chose to go with a scorched earth policy because our owner is cheap. That is the bottom line. Some trades were OK, some were just made for cost-cutting purposes.
August 17, 200818 yr Isn't there a football forum you guys can go bump heads or helmets or whatever? there not talking bout football just giving an example using the dolphins
August 17, 200818 yr In the offseason, the players that have to be moved are the free swingers and inconsistent players on this team. Uggla, jacobs, Willingham(great bat and good defender, but to injury prone) have to be moved. i can also see treanor, olsen, and helms getting replaced. i think we can trade uggla and olsen for really good prospects. but with willingham and jacobs, we cant get much. We also have our own prospects to replace uggla, willingham, olsen, and helms. So i dont see this as a firesale, i see it as a way to get younger but better. I'd like the depth chart to look like this: C-Prospect from uggla or olsen 1B:Cantu 2B:Coglhan 3B:Mcpherson SS:hanley LF:Ross CF:Maybin RF:Hermida SP: JJ, Nolasco, sanchez, volstad, miller We have our Homerun hitters as well as the guys who can hit for average. We also have good speed in that lineup. and we save money by not resigning uggla, jacobs, or willingham.
August 17, 200818 yr Isn't there a football forum you guys can go bump heads or helmets or whatever? We're not talking about football.
August 17, 200818 yr In the offseason, the players that have to be moved are the free swingers and inconsistent players on this team. Uggla, jacobs, Willingham(great bat and good defender, but to injury prone) have to be moved. i can also see treanor, olsen, and helms getting replaced. i think we can trade uggla and olsen for really good prospects. but with willingham and jacobs, we cant get much. We also have our own prospects to replace uggla, willingham, olsen, and helms. So i dont see this as a firesale, i see it as a way to get younger but better. I'd like the depth chart to look like this: C-Prospect from uggla or olsen 1B:Cantu 2B:Coglhan 3B:Mcpherson SS:hanley LF:Ross CF:Maybin RF:Hermida SP: JJ, Nolasco, sanchez, volstad, miller We have our Homerun hitters as well as the guys who can hit for average. We also have good speed in that lineup. and we save money by not resigning uggla, jacobs, or willingham. i like it but we need to keep uggla 1 more year and trade olsen for some 1 in the pen and cash because we dont need another catching prospect if we have baker and treanor with skippworth in the minor who can be ready in 2 or 3 seasons
August 17, 200818 yr In the offseason, the players that have to be moved are the free swingers and inconsistent players on this team. Uggla, jacobs, Willingham(great bat and good defender, but to injury prone) have to be moved. i can also see treanor, olsen, and helms getting replaced. i think we can trade uggla and olsen for really good prospects. but with willingham and jacobs, we cant get much. We also have our own prospects to replace uggla, willingham, olsen, and helms. So i dont see this as a firesale, i see it as a way to get younger but better. I'd like the depth chart to look like this: C-Prospect from uggla or olsen 1B:Cantu 2B:Coglhan 3B:Mcpherson SS:hanley LF:Ross CF:Maybin RF:Hermida SP: JJ, Nolasco, sanchez, volstad, miller We have our Homerun hitters as well as the guys who can hit for average. We also have good speed in that lineup. and we save money by not resigning uggla, jacobs, or willingham. i like it but we need to keep uggla 1 more year and trade olsen for some 1 in the pen and cash because we dont need another catching prospect if we have baker and treanor with skippworth in the minor who can be ready in 2 or 3 seasons I dont think we can keep uggla for one more year unless we wanna give him a big contract, but im not sure, you gotta ask Rab. as for the catching position, i dont wanna keep treanor and keep baker as a starter. I think we can trade olsen for a catcher(gerald laird maybe) and trade jacobs for another bullpen arm.
August 17, 200818 yr In the offseason, the players that have to be moved are the free swingers and inconsistent players on this team. Uggla, jacobs, Willingham(great bat and good defender, but to injury prone) have to be moved. i can also see treanor, olsen, and helms getting replaced. i think we can trade uggla and olsen for really good prospects. but with willingham and jacobs, we cant get much. We also have our own prospects to replace uggla, willingham, olsen, and helms. So i dont see this as a firesale, i see it as a way to get younger but better. I'd like the depth chart to look like this: C-Prospect from uggla or olsen 1B:Cantu 2B:Coglhan 3B:Mcpherson SS:hanley LF:Ross CF:Maybin RF:Hermida SP: JJ, Nolasco, sanchez, volstad, miller We have our Homerun hitters as well as the guys who can hit for average. We also have good speed in that lineup. and we save money by not resigning uggla, jacobs, or willingham. i like it but we need to keep uggla 1 more year and trade olsen for some 1 in the pen and cash because we dont need another catching prospect if we have baker and treanor with skippworth in the minor who can be ready in 2 or 3 seasons I dont think we can keep uggla for one more year unless we wanna give him a big contract, but im not sure, you gotta ask Rab. as for the catching position, i dont wanna keep treanor and keep baker as a starter. I think we can trade olsen for a catcher(gerald laird maybe) and trade jacobs for another bullpen arm. yea id rather have some 1 who has developed than a prospect because then we'd go through frustrations all over again i just reliezed Pudge to the marlins is like the Dan Marino for the dolphins great when we had them but we hve yet to find some 1 that could replace them but i think baker is solid he is a contact hitter his arm has already gotten better and since hes come our pitchers have been dealing
August 17, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................
August 17, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................ Well not everyone. I didn't want him to get a Hanley deal then, and I'm not ready to just trade him now. I'm really not sure what the answer with Uggla is, although if we weren't handicapped with the lowest payroll in baseball, I would definitely resign him.
August 17, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................ Well not everyone. I didn't want him to get a Hanley deal then, and I'm not ready to just trade him now. I'm really not sure what the answer with Uggla is, although if we weren't handicapped with the lowest payroll in baseball, I would definitely resign him. i just want him for 1 more year to see if he really can do more than hit homeruns or strikeout. sign him to like a 3 year 3 million dollar contract and trade him in his second year
August 18, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................ Well not everyone. I didn't want him to get a Hanley deal then, and I'm not ready to just trade him now. I'm really not sure what the answer with Uggla is, although if we weren't handicapped with the lowest payroll in baseball, I would definitely resign him. i just want him for 1 more year to see if he really can do more than hit homeruns or strikeout. sign him to like a 3 year 3 million dollar contract and trade him in his second year uggla is a prime case of plenty of homers/plenty of strikeouts. i am not sure if that will ever change. but the way i look at it, he has contributed 27, 31, 26 (so far) homeruns and 90, 88, 70 (so far) runs batted in, thus making him a valuable part of this team
August 18, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................ Well not everyone. I didn't want him to get a Hanley deal then, and I'm not ready to just trade him now. I'm really not sure what the answer with Uggla is, although if we weren't handicapped with the lowest payroll in baseball, I would definitely resign him. i just want him for 1 more year to see if he really can do more than hit homeruns or strikeout. sign him to like a 3 year 3 million dollar contract and trade him in his second year uggla is a prime case of plenty of homers/plenty of strikeouts. i am not sure if that will ever change. but the way i look at it, he has contributed 27, 31, 26 (so far) homeruns and 90, 88, 70 (so far) runs batted in, thus making him a valuable part of this team my thoughts exactly o and thanks for the stats
August 18, 200818 yr Second off, I would like to state that the 2005-2006 off season was NOT a fire sale. Right, because losing a bunch of players that were all-stars and or were part of a world series championship team is normal. I guess paying enourmous salaries for underachieving players is to be expected from any ownership right!?! What business school did you go to?
August 18, 200818 yr Author hammer, olsen, gregg, and jacobs can go but i want uggla for at least one more season to see if he can produce more and i don't think we have anyone in the system to replace the power he'd leave in the lineup if he was traded. in the offseason they should sign ivan rodriguez to a 1 or 2 year deal because i think he could still produce even though his numbers have dropped.
August 18, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................ I never knew if we should re sign him or not. i never thought about it till now. But i know that Erick wants to trade uggla and see what coglhan has and so do i.
August 18, 200818 yr does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season how the mind of the supporter changes................ Yeah, I do. I also remember not being one of those people.
August 18, 200818 yr Isn't there a football forum you guys can go bump heads or helmets or whatever? We're not talking about football. :banghead it was a joke
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