The boston redsoxs do this, and their famed for being "smart" because they don't resign players for big amounts of money and instead go to prospects

 

when we do it, it's a fire sale

 

f***ING STUPID ass talking heads

 

/notstopping

 

/irratable with how today's game is going

 

What we're doing this offseason is smart, and I have no problem with it.

 

What we did in '05 to '06: Firesale. No other way around it. We gave up good to great players, in the middle of their primes, at reduced prices, we were at a position of weakness in our bargaining because everyone knew we had to cut salary. Our GM just did a great job picking the prospects he collected.

 

 

NEITHER was/is a firesale. Look, the team in '05 was expected to be in World Series and didn't even make it to the playoffs. With the exception of a select few, the entire team UNDERachieved. You cannot expect a front office to keep paying these guys millions of dollars to underachieve. Remember, there is only one Yankee team (thank God) and everyone else has to be smart about managing payroll with achievement. I think those who are calling the offseason in '05 a firesale have a great deal of short term memory in terms of the lack of performance.

 

I remember before they announced the moves I was saying to people this team needed a purge considering how bad the players had become. I'm glad they did what they did after 05 for the most part.

 

As for what is rumored to happen now, this team needs to adjust its personnel but also the coaching staff excluding Wiley. Both the manager and defensive coaches since they hold a key fault in this season.

does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team

 

and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season

 

how the mind of the supporter changes................

 

 

Yeah, I do.

I also remember not being one of those people.

 

for anyone interested in reading back to when uggla was of god-like status, here is the thread http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...18&hl=uggla

The boston redsoxs do this, and their famed for being "smart" because they don't resign players for big amounts of money and instead go to prospects

 

when we do it, it's a fire sale

 

f***ING STUPID ass talking heads

 

/notstopping

 

/irratable with how today's game is going

 

What we're doing this offseason is smart, and I have no problem with it.

 

What we did in '05 to '06: Firesale. No other way around it. We gave up good to great players, in the middle of their primes, at reduced prices, we were at a position of weakness in our bargaining because everyone knew we had to cut salary. Our GM just did a great job picking the prospects he collected.

 

 

NEITHER was/is a firesale. Look, the team in '05 was expected to be in World Series and didn't even make it to the playoffs. With the exception of a select few, the entire team UNDERachieved. You cannot expect a front office to keep paying these guys millions of dollars to underachieve. Remember, there is only one Yankee team (thank God) and everyone else has to be smart about managing payroll with achievement. I think those who are calling the offseason in '05 a firesale have a great deal of short term memory in terms of the lack of performance.

 

I remember before they announced the moves I was saying to people this team needed a purge considering how bad the players had become. I'm glad they did what they did after 05 for the most part.

 

As for what is rumored to happen now, this team needs to adjust its personnel but also the coaching staff excluding Wiley. Both the manager and defensive coaches since they hold a key fault in this season.

 

Have you ever heard the expression "throwing the baby out with the bath water"?

 

That whole team wasn't bad, it had bad pieces, but a GM operating under an average payroll allowance would not have blown up the team as drastically as we did. Some of the guys were in their prime and easily still could have been built around. The one I still don't understand is Beckett, no matter how good Hanley and Anibal become, nobody could predict it would be a fair trade for us at the time. The only reason we made that deal was to get rid of Lowell's contract, not to improve the ballclub, even if we do end up better in the long term.

This team's core of Uggla , Hermida , Willingham , Jacobs needs to be broken up they dont compliment each other well at all . We need more contact hitters , more speed , and better overall defense and if moving several of them produces players that make our team better I am fine with making some moves . This team has been together three years we know what we have at this point and we know what we need to improve on . On a related noted Hermida is not what he was advertised as , he has been very disappointing thus far.

This team's core of Uggla , Hermida , Willingham , Jacobs needs to be broken up they dont compliment each other well at all . We need more contact hitters , more speed , and better overall defense and if moving several of them produces players that make our team better I am fine with making some moves . This team has been together three years we know what we have at this point and we know what we need to improve on . On a related noted Hermida is not what he was advertised as , he has been very disappointing thus far.

 

 

yea this team is built bascally for big hits no contact hitters with speed

 

this kinda makes you look back on how great the 2003 team was with pierre and castillio as our 1-2 punch then pudge miguey lee lowell would drive them in and we would just score runs.

 

we NEED a real 1 or 2 hitter as in some 1 who can bat 290-300 can work the count have a 300+ on base% and who can steal 30 - 50 bases. Some peopoe say hanley is that guy but he's a 3 hitter good avg with power and has good speed. The only 1 who is close to being a prototype 1 hitter is alferdo but his avg is low.

then we need a 2 hitter with decent speed and gets on base alot which hermida doesnt do

 

so we need maybin to come through and be the talent hes suppose to be so we can have at least jaun pierre type player on our team

 

EDIT: New 1-2 combo

 

Cameron Maybin and Chris Coghlan with hanley bating 3rd

does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team

 

and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season

 

how the mind of the supporter changes................

 

 

Yeah, I do.

I also remember not being one of those people.

 

for anyone interested in reading back to when uggla was of god-like status, here is the thread http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...18&hl=uggla

 

As I said, I wasn't one of those people.

does anyone here remember the days of may/june when uggla was on fire and the cries were for him to be immediately handed a big, long term contract as he was such a vital part of this team

 

and now basically everyone wants to trade him in the off season

 

how the mind of the supporter changes................

 

 

Yeah, I do.

I also remember not being one of those people.

 

for anyone interested in reading back to when uggla was of god-like status, here is the thread http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...18&hl=uggla

 

 

nope, i didnt say sh!t about re-signing uggla, although i was thinking about it.

i really do not want uggla or ross to leave

i really do not want uggla or ross to leave

 

 

I understand why you dont, but uggla has to leave. As much as i like him, he's to much of a free swinger. He doesnt care what the situation is, he just wants to swing for a homerun. We have to many of those guys on our team. We also have a prospect who deserves a chance to show what he's got in chris coghlan. He's the hitter we need in this lineup. He can hit for average, hardly strikes out and draws a good amount of walks. And his speed is good to.

 

As for Ross, i really want him to stay to and take over LF.

i really do not want uggla or ross to leave

 

 

I understand why you dont, but uggla has to leave. As much as i like him, he's to much of a free swinger. He doesnt care what the situation is, he just wants to swing for a homerun. We have to many of those guys on our team. We also have a prospect who deserves a chance to show what he's got in chris coghlan. He's the hitter we need in this lineup. He can hit for average, hardly strikes out and draws a good amount of walks. And his speed is good to.

 

As for Ross, i really want him to stay to and take over LF.

 

 

i really dont understand why ross is gonna be traded thats bulls*** and if some 1 cant give me a good reason why i shall start a riot

 

Also does any 1 else feel they want to keep Uggla for 1 more season to see if he really is more than a free swinger

i really do not want uggla or ross to leave

 

 

I understand why you dont, but uggla has to leave. As much as i like him, he's to much of a free swinger. He doesnt care what the situation is, he just wants to swing for a homerun. We have to many of those guys on our team. We also have a prospect who deserves a chance to show what he's got in chris coghlan. He's the hitter we need in this lineup. He can hit for average, hardly strikes out and draws a good amount of walks. And his speed is good to.

 

As for Ross, i really want him to stay to and take over LF.

 

 

i really dont understand why ross is gonna be traded thats bulls*** and if some 1 cant give me a good reason why i shall start a riot

 

Also does any 1 else feel they want to keep Uggla for 1 more season to see if he really is more than a free swinger

 

I really wanna say yes, but im gonna say no. He has already shown he doesnt want to hit for average, he just wants to hit homeruns. and we have chris cohlan to replace him with, and as i said before, coghlan is the perfect #2 hitter for the marlins. Plus, we can get some great players for uggla.

i really do not want uggla or ross to leave

 

 

I understand why you dont, but uggla has to leave. As much as i like him, he's to much of a free swinger. He doesnt care what the situation is, he just wants to swing for a homerun. We have to many of those guys on our team. We also have a prospect who deserves a chance to show what he's got in chris coghlan. He's the hitter we need in this lineup. He can hit for average, hardly strikes out and draws a good amount of walks. And his speed is good to.

 

As for Ross, i really want him to stay to and take over LF.

 

 

i really dont understand why ross is gonna be traded thats bulls*** and if some 1 cant give me a good reason why i shall start a riot

 

Also does any 1 else feel they want to keep Uggla for 1 more season to see if he really is more than a free swinger

 

I really wanna say yes, but im gonna say no. He has already shown he doesnt want to hit for average, he just wants to hit homeruns. and we have chris cohlan to replace him with, and as i said before, coghlan is the perfect #2 hitter for the marlins. Plus, we can get some great players for uggla.

 

 

yea i agree coghlan is gonna be a great 2 hitter but he needs to develop more defensive skills befor he can play in the big leagues.

In that case coghlan plays 1 more season in the minor and dan plays 1 more season with the Marlins.

 

sound good

There's always the option of letting Dan stay another year to play 2B, and move Coghlan over to 3B, temporarily...which would move Cantu to 1B. Which would get Mike "Hair Gel is the only thing I'm great at" Jacobs off the team.

Umm I wouldn't be sad at all to see any of those guys go... maybe with the exception of Uggla and Cody...and it wouldn't take me long to get over it either.

 

And neither of those two bother me. Cody is a bench player that is filling in until Maybin is ready. And I would rather have Alfredo than Cody. Cody can play 3 positions, Alfredo 7. When a defensive move is made this year, Cody is sent to one of the corner spots and Alfredo takes over in CF. That should tell you that the only reason Cody is starting in CF right now is because of his power potential over Alfredo's. That's something you don't look at for a bench player.

 

Uggla is a streak hitter. I would much rather have a consistent hitter. It would be interesting to see Coughlin called up in Sept just to see what he can bring to the table at this level. Same goes for Gaby.

Not every deal, but I feel we got a good to great deal out of every trade but Castillo's.

 

And it was a completely different situation.

 

The 1997 team had just won the World Series and were never given a chance to win again. Also, the team was making a ton of money and had a solid fan base.

 

The 2003 team had 2 years after their championship to both make it back to the playoffs and bring in the fans. Neither happened and the team was an economic black hole (mostly because the Marlins get no money from parking or concessions).

 

Also, for the record, only Burnett and D-Lee were anywhere near high rated prospects, everyone else was either guys with no futures or journeymen.

 

 

"For the record" it's unfair to add AJ's name to this. He was traded because he was a .500 pitcher that was uncoachable and a club house cancer. He was actually fired with a week or so left in the season. Told to pack up his locker and leave the facility. He had great potential but when you are that young and you think you know more than your coaches and your catcher you gotta go. Any time back then that there were negative comments coming from "an unidentified club house source", you just knew who it was.

 

DLee was a GGer that couldn't hit here. At least not with any type of consistency. And at that time we had the $$$ to sign 2 IFers to nice contracts. We opted to sign Lowell and Castillo, 2 GGers that could hit here. AND replaced DLee with a big name (hugely backloaded contract) that could hit exceptionally well but wasn't as good with his glove. Everyone knew once DLee got into the Friendly Confines his bat would come alive. Besides that, DLee was gone right after the '03 season so he wasn't involved in the so called fire sale being discussed.

 

How's that for an old man's memory??

The 2003 team had 2 years after their championship to both make it back to the playoffs and bring in the fans. Neither happened and the team was an economic black hole (mostly because the Marlins get no money from parking or concessions).

 

A big bulk of the '03 team was kept together for two more years but they still lost a lot of key guys so they really weren't given a chance either. They didn't re-sign Pudge who was arguably the face of the franchise and IMO the MVP of that post season and Derrek Lee who hit 30 homers in '03 and was a gold glover. Other significant losses included Ugueth Urbina and Brad Penny midway through the '04 season. Any other team would have re-signed Pudge after what he did.

 

 

And we tried. As did a few other teams for similar numbers. It's just that the Tigers wanted him more, so they signed him to a contract that at that time the rest of the baseball world laughed at. And let's face the real facts here. Pudge signed with us because nobody else wanted someone his age WITH his history of injuries, most notably back problems. He signed to show the baseball world that there was still plenty of fire in the tank. AND because of the $$$ we offered for one year. I don't think there was ever any doubt he was a one year player here which ever way that season turned out for him. That one year contract he signed with us should have been a big clue to the doubters of that theory. Especially since after the '03 season he was demanding at least a 4 year deal from everyone. Pudge was in it for the $$$ and he got it. The bonus for him was the ring. And that's all the ring was for him. The pay day was his goal.

 

For the record, I don't hate Pudge at all. We got what we paid for. More than we expected because he was a big contirbuting factor in that trophy. But don't put some kind of halo over his head and blame ownership for what happened after that season. It was in the script from the time he first put pen to paper in the '02 off season/'03 preseason.

 

One thing I will agree with you on... I still miss Brad. IMO, our very worst trade ever.

The boston redsoxs do this, and their famed for being "smart" because they don't resign players for big amounts of money and instead go to prospects

 

when we do it, it's a fire sale

 

f***ING STUPID ass talking heads

 

/notstopping

 

/irratable with how today's game is going

 

What we're doing this offseason is smart, and I have no problem with it.

 

What we did in '05 to '06: Firesale. No other way around it. We gave up good to great players, in the middle of their primes, at reduced prices, we were at a position of weakness in our bargaining because everyone knew we had to cut salary. Our GM just did a great job picking the prospects he collected.

 

 

NEITHER was/is a firesale. Look, the team in '05 was expected to be in World Series and didn't even make it to the playoffs. With the exception of a select few, the entire team UNDERachieved. You cannot expect a front office to keep paying these guys millions of dollars to underachieve. Remember, there is only one Yankee team (thank God) and everyone else has to be smart about managing payroll with achievement. I think those who are calling the offseason in '05 a firesale have a great deal of short term memory in terms of the lack of performance.

 

I remember before they announced the moves I was saying to people this team needed a purge considering how bad the players had become. I'm glad they did what they did after 05 for the most part.

 

As for what is rumored to happen now, this team needs to adjust its personnel but also the coaching staff excluding Wiley. Both the manager and defensive coaches since they hold a key fault in this season.

 

Have you ever heard the expression "throwing the baby out with the bath water"?

 

That whole team wasn't bad, it had bad pieces, but a GM operating under an average payroll allowance would not have blown up the team as drastically as we did. Some of the guys were in their prime and easily still could have been built around. The one I still don't understand is Beckett, no matter how good Hanley and Anibal become, nobody could predict it would be a fair trade for us at the time. The only reason we made that deal was to get rid of Lowell's contract, not to improve the ballclub, even if we do end up better in the long term.

 

 

When the bad pieces comprise of 95% of the team then one can conclude the team was bad. You're right we had to give up Beckett to get rid of Lowell. You seem to want to focus on the money but let's not forget Lowell couldn't hit the side of a barn during his last 1.5 years with us. I know you want to hate the front office for losing the players but they were right to do what they did with the lack of achievement over the last 2 years. The only three players you could build around were Beckett, Willis, and Cabrera. Beckett had to go to get rid of Lowell so Miggy could play third.

 

Though, I agree that getting right of Willis and Cabrera was payroll dumping. Then again, it has worked in our favor.

Though, I agree that getting right of Willis and Cabrera was payroll dumping. Then again, it has worked in our favor.

 

 

Not yet. But in the long run...it very well could.

hopefully it will

 

Miller weve already seen has great talent just needs to mature a little

Maybin is our future Centerfielder and lead off hitter

Rabello is hopefully getting released cuz hes garbage

Badenhop is an ok spot starter i see him more as a mid relief guy

Trahan is supposivley a great pitching prospect but i honestly dont kno much about him and would like to know. is there any 1 else im missing

 

So looks like we did get a good deal so far because dontrelle is garbage right now and he might have to give up pitching if he dosent get back to form and Miguel is doing ok but hes starting to heat up.

hopefully it will

 

Miller weve already seen has great talent just needs to mature a little

Maybin is our future Centerfielder and lead off hitter

Rabello is hopefully getting released cuz hes garbage

Badenhop is an ok spot starter i see him more as a mid relief guy

Trahan is supposivley a great pitching prospect but i honestly dont kno much about him and would like to know. is there any 1 else im missing

 

So looks like we did get a good deal so far because dontrelle is garbage right now and he might have to give up pitching if he dosent get back to form and Miguel is doing ok but hes starting to heat up.

 

 

Eulogio De La Cruz...who's better than Rabelo, Badenhop, and Trahern was a big part of the deal.

He's a future reliever.

Willingham is gone due to his back, Jacobs is gone because Dolphin Stadium is killing him (if he were a Philly he'd be Ryan Howard), Olsen is gone because we have Andrew Miller. None of this makes for a fire sale.

 

C: ?

1B: Cantu

2B: Uggla

3B: McPherson

SS: Ramirez

LF: Ross

CF: Maybin

RF: Hermida

 

SP: Nolasco

SP: Johnson

SP: Volstad

SP: Sanchez

SP: Miller

 

That is not the product of a fire sale. The Bullpen will likely need some free agent help.

DLee was a GGer that couldn't hit here. At least not with any type of consistency.

 

Lee could hit here, did hit here, and hit here consistently. We are just a board full of dumbass homers that think that every missed RBI opportunity automatically makes a guy "anti-clutch"

 

Derrek Lee's OPS

 

2000 .875

2001 .820

2002 .872

2003 .887

 

2004 .860

2005 1.080

2006 .840

2007 .913

2008 .825

There is one abberation in 2005, otherwise has been pretty similar for 9 seasons running...

Willingham is gone due to his back, Jacobs is gone because Dolphin Stadium is killing him (if he were a Philly he'd be Ryan Howard), Olsen is gone because we have Andrew Miller. None of this makes for a fire sale.

 

C: ?

1B: Cantu

2B: Uggla

3B: McPherson

SS: Ramirez

LF: Ross

CF: Maybin

RF: Hermida

 

SP: Nolasco

SP: Johnson

SP: Volstad

SP: Sanchez

SP: Miller

 

That is not the product of a fire sale. The Bullpen will likely need some free agent help.

 

 

yes i love it thats what i dream of but baker is gonna be a catcher prbably backup if we dont get some 1 when we trade olsen or jacobs

There is no problem with trading away some of these guys in the offseason to improve the team. The problem is when we don't offer them arbitration and some other team takes them for virtually nothing.

 

Jacobs is definitely expendable b/c we have dallas in the minors, so why not move him to improve the team. Hermida has a lot of value still and may never pan out, so if a deal comes along where we can get some talent back for him, why not get rid of him.

 

 

As for the fire sale business, the problem is every time the marlins trade players in the offseason its considered a firesale. last year when we traded cabrera and willis, one of mlb.com or espn.com had a headline that read 'another marlins firesale'. That trade was def not a firesale.

How about this deal. Dan Uggla, Mike Jacobs, and Jeremy Hermida for Yadier Molina and Colby Rasmus.

 

I realize it seems pretty far fetched, but it could be done. We can get Rasmus alone for dan uggla. Throwing in jacobs and hermida for Molina could happen to. And for those of you saying why would they wanna get rid of Molina, well they have a very good prospect in the minor leagues named bryan anderson.