Im fine with freddi.

this team is .500 with the lowest payroll.

 

lets see what he can do with some payroll?

Im fine with freddi.

this team is .500 with the lowest payroll.

 

lets see what he can do with some payroll?

 

"some payroll" is simply what other teams would be paying for the guys that currently play for the Marlins.

we need a big time player to come play here.

gotta start showing the money!

Fredi is not going anywhere. What he has done with the Marlins this season is unbelievable. Some people on this board tend to forget that he has been working with the lowest payrol in the MLB. He deserves much more credit than he is currently recieving.

 

Sure he makes mistakes, but so does every other manager. Nobody is perfect. I think he has made many more positive decisions than negative ones this year though.

 

Not to mention that he doesn't cost too much. He ranks 21st out of the 30 managers in 2008 salaries and is barely making over minimum wage.

Fredi isn't going anywhere. Girardi has a better chance of losing his job in the next couple of years than Fredi does.

 

At least once, the front office will be willing to change up the team to fit the manager. Maybe next time not so much but I suspect throughout the off-season Fredi is going to have huge input the reshaping of the 2009 Fish.

 

That's an interesting point. Lets see if it bears out and if so how. Beinfest seems to have a lot of control over week to week personnel decisions if not day to day. I'm not saying he makes out the lineup but you know he has input. That's why Girardi had problems. I'm not one of those who called Fredi a yes-man but I don't see him being too assertive when it comes to personnel. Maybe I'm wrong.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

He is on pace to lead a ballclub with the lowest payroll in baseball to a winning record.

 

If anything, he does the most with the little he has.

 

Payroll is not a measure of talent

 

Who said it was?

 

So why does Fredi deserve such accolades just because this team has a small payroll? There's talent here, in all aspects of the team. These facets of the team (pitching, hitting, and defense) just never seemed to work at the same time, unfortunately.

 

The sooner baseball "experts" realize that payroll shouldn't set expectations, the better off we'll all be. Maybe eventually teams will stop overpaying for mediocre talent.

 

 

a.k.a Gil Meche

Don't be ridiculous.

 

He is on pace to lead a ballclub with the lowest payroll in baseball to a winning record.

 

If anything, he does the most with the little he has.

 

Payroll is not a measure of talent

 

Who said it was?

 

So why does Fredi deserve such accolades just because this team has a small payroll? There's talent here, in all aspects of the team. These facets of the team (pitching, hitting, and defense) just never seemed to work at the same time, unfortunately.

 

The sooner baseball "experts" realize that payroll shouldn't set expectations, the better off we'll all be. Maybe eventually teams will stop overpaying for mediocre talent.

 

Is this a serious question?

 

Ok, let me ask you this

 

What is more impressive: Leading a team with the lowest payroll in baseball to 84 wins, or leading a team with the highest payroll in baseball to 84 wins?

 

With payroll comes expectations. The higher the payroll, the more games you are expected to win (key word being expected). The

 

Marlins have done something very few teams do, and that is finding talent for cheap. I kindaa see where you're coming from though. It's not about payroll in general, it's the effeciency in which you use your money. The Marlins are one of the most efficient teams in baseball.

 

Furthermore, nobody knows exactly how much credit a manager should be owed to the success of his team, but if Fredi has a team with the lowest payroll in baseball above .500, what is the reason to get rid of him?

Don't be ridiculous.

 

He is on pace to lead a ballclub with the lowest payroll in baseball to a winning record.

 

If anything, he does the most with the little he has.

 

Payroll is not a measure of talent

 

Who said it was?

 

So why does Fredi deserve such accolades just because this team has a small payroll? There's talent here, in all aspects of the team. These facets of the team (pitching, hitting, and defense) just never seemed to work at the same time, unfortunately.

 

The sooner baseball "experts" realize that payroll shouldn't set expectations, the better off we'll all be. Maybe eventually teams will stop overpaying for mediocre talent.

 

I kindaa see where you're coming from though. It's not about payroll in general, it's the effeciency in which you use your money. The Marlins are one of the most efficient teams in baseball.

 

Right, and this is what I am getting at. I could easily see a team paying a guy like Jacobs 3 years 30 million, but that doesn't make him a great player. Its more of a sign that salaries are out of hand. Granted, the Marlins generally like their players young and cheap. But they are cheap only because they are young, not because they are without talent.

 

As for your argument with expectations, I don't read much into that. Girardi won manager of the year for a team that finished UNDER .500 just because they were better than expected. Why is it so surprising that the Marlins are decent? It SHOULDN'T be.

Right, and this is what I am getting at. I could easily see a team paying a guy like Jacobs 3 years 30 million, but that doesn't make him a great player. Its more of a sign that salaries are out of hand. Granted, the Marlins generally like their players young and cheap. But they are cheap only because they are young, not because they are without talent.

 

As for your argument with expectations, I don't read much into that. Girardi won manager of the year for a team that finished UNDER .500 just because they were better than expected. Why is it so surprising that the Marlins are decent? It SHOULDN'T be.

 

Well, can you blame anyone for thinking the Marlins were going to be a lot worse than they are? They did trade one of the best players in baseball during the offseason. Nobody knew how (or if) the Marlins were going to replace Cabrera's production, but the Marlins (as usual) found a way, or at least found a way to come close to replacing his production

Fredi is not going anywhere. What he has done with the Marlins this season is unbelievable. Some people on this board tend to forget that he has been working with the lowest payrol in the MLB. He deserves much more credit than he is currently recieving.

 

Sure he makes mistakes, but so does every other manager. Nobody is perfect. I think he has made many more positive decisions than negative ones this year though.

 

Not to mention that he doesn't cost too much. He ranks 21st out of the 30 managers in 2008 salaries and is barely making over minimum wage.

 

 

Change that to the youngest team in MLB and I believe you are on the right track. The same ones that say veterans, and their leadership, aren't important on a team are the same ones wanting to raise payroll. That kind of thinking just never made much sense to me.

 

Fredi has done a remarkable job with what he has had to work with. Had 3 of our SPs been here since the beginning of the season we would have run away with this weak division. But they weren't. Couple that with the inexperience of our players and it spells trouble. Look at the categories that we do lead in, K's, errors, leaving RISP with less than 2 outs, etc... Inexperience, inconsistency, youthful mistakes, etc...

 

A little tinkering this off season should do the trick. Sprinkle in a couple veterans by subtracting a couple guys that are failing to mature, add a real catcher that knows how to play defense, and institute a policy that all players need to participate in some type of off season work out program. I also wouldn't mind Andy Fox being replaced along with Jim Pressley. Either they can't do the job or the players are just refusing to listen to them. Same end result.

 

Bo Porter isn't a problem. You never hear anything about him until someone screws up going for home. Almost every game he is never mentioned. That means he is doing a pretty good job over there. Fans never heap praise on a 3B coach, but he is in the spotlight once he makes an error in judgement. And if you really think about it, Bo dosen't do that very often. Rarely is his name mentioned, even on these boards.

Right, and this is what I am getting at. I could easily see a team paying a guy like Jacobs 3 years 30 million, but that doesn't make him a great player.

 

 

What????

Erick..yeah, I could see that happening. In fact, for a lot of teams, that's not even a substantial contract.

I feel other managers have been able to do more with much less

 

this line makes me laugh

Dude i'll explain to you exactly what I meant when I said that in my original post since you found it such an amusing concept. The Marlins were playing extraodinarily well when they were hitting 3 dingers per game and winning games 7-5. The pitching rotation sucked but the bullpen kept this team afloat. The bats have now gone silent and literally the team is in an offensive slump, however our rotation is right now within the top 3 in the NL. Can the Marlins enjoy the solid pitching we have been getting? NO! Fredi does not play small ball, it is not his thing. The bullpen is overworked, Mostly Fredi's fault, but I will admit that early season pitching woes also is to blame. I like Fredi as a person, he is the Good Guy for the most part, unfortunately he is the manager. If the team does not hustle it's on him...If it makes dumb mistakes and poor errors it's on him! Mckeon would not accept poor play and just shrug it off as Fredi does. Has this team overperformed? Most posters here would not believe that, regardless of how much this team is getting paid. Has Fredi gotten the most out of this team? Some may say yes but when we look closer we have to realize that this team could be performing better. Player by player we are not outmanned at any position but maybe in the catching area so then lets put this notion that with the payroll he has had he is doing more than could be expected to rest.

I think Fredi has been ok but I just don't see him being the manager to lead and manage this club to another level. Do I want him tarred ande feathered and sent on the next train outta town? No, not in the least. He should remain with the ballclub in some capacicity...Promote him to the FO, put him on 3rd base instread of Porter whatever but as a manager he doesn't stress fundamentals nor does he elevate the play of the team. His game time decisions are ok but no big deal. He is your typical stopgap manager. I rather have a manager with fire in his belly and some cojones in 2009. If Fredi comes back would we be expecting anything different from the team?

Miami Herald

08/30/08

By BARRY JACKSON

 

 

Though Dallas McPherson leads Triple A with 40 homers, the problem with him playing third base here in 2009 -- and moving Jorge Cantu to first to replace trade chip Mike Jacobs -- is the Marlins want to reduce strikeouts. McPherson has struggled with curves and sliders, striking out in 37 percent of his at-bats and hitting .272 (.156 in August). The best option might be keeping Cantu at third if Double A Southern League MVP Gaby Sanchez (.320, 17 homers, 88 RBI, 17 steals) wins the first-base job next spring or, otherwise, using McPherson at third, Cantu at first.

 

the only problem is I don't think we can sign Cantu

Erick..yeah, I could see that happening. In fact, for a lot of teams, that's not even a substantial contract.

 

 

Mike Jacobs is a DH, with an .OBP of less than .300. A streaky hitter.

I doubt he gets 10 mill per, from any team. I doubt he'd get half of that, as a matter of fact.

 

Uggla wouldn't even get that, imo, and Uggla would get a lot more than Jake.

This is just my own personal opinion but I think Fredi would be a better manager if he managed a team with a huge payroll. Why? Because he doesn't dare to light fires in players, he's more concerned with putting them out (or being positive). Usually guys with big payrolls have big heads. From what I've seen in the last month (i.e. the dodgers telling Manny to cut his hair. Has he cut it? No. Do you think Joe Torre has addressed it? Probably, but he sure hasn't seen to it that it got cut) managers are scared of players (except Ozzie Guillen and a few others) and we don't know how much the front office has to do with it either. Joe Giradi wouldn't put up with a lot of what Fredi puts up with. Joe got all over players when he coached, however, that has changed in New York. Why? Because in my opinion he is scared of the big time players and I'll bet the FO has something to do with it as well. Fredi doesn't like confrontation so send him to New York. Let Giradi come back and lay into a few of these players and coaches. With the talent we have we'll be good. This is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. All in all he does a great job with what he has to work with, I'd just like to see him be a little bit more stern.

 

 

Manny did cut his hair. He trimmed about 6 inches off of it. Torre said he was happy with it. It does look cleaner, but it's still not a clean cut. I would assume that they don't want to press the issue for him to cut it anymore, because it's certain that he would not be back in LA for next season. So making him completely cut his hair off would be disrespect. Dreadlocks aren't something like getting a regular hair cut. It takes a long time of nasty, smelly, days without washing the hair. lol That's a big commitment. I wonder if that has anything to do with Manny not being "Manny" lately (as far as getting big hits in key situations).

we need a big time player to come play here.

gotta start showing the money!

 

 

For real. It's like they should go after that guy. That great guy. Uhm. That shortstop, you know, the really good one playing for the worst team in baseball. Ohhhhh wait, he's already on the team, and signed for a few more years. :banghead

This is just my own personal opinion but I think Fredi would be a better manager if he managed a team with a huge payroll. Why? Because he doesn't dare to light fires in players, he's more concerned with putting them out (or being positive). Usually guys with big payrolls have big heads. From what I've seen in the last month (i.e. the dodgers telling Manny to cut his hair. Has he cut it? No. Do you think Joe Torre has addressed it? Probably, but he sure hasn't seen to it that it got cut) managers are scared of players (except Ozzie Guillen and a few others) and we don't know how much the front office has to do with it either. Joe Giradi wouldn't put up with a lot of what Fredi puts up with. Joe got all over players when he coached, however, that has changed in New York. Why? Because in my opinion he is scared of the big time players and I'll bet the FO has something to do with it as well. Fredi doesn't like confrontation so send him to New York. Let Giradi come back and lay into a few of these players and coaches. With the talent we have we'll be good. This is just my opinion so take it with a grain of salt. All in all he does a great job with what he has to work with, I'd just like to see him be a little bit more stern.

 

 

Manny did cut his hair. He trimmed about 6 inches off of it. Torre said he was happy with it. It does look cleaner, but it's still not a clean cut. I would assume that they don't want to press the issue for him to cut it anymore, because it's certain that he would not be back in LA for next season. So making him completely cut his hair off would be disrespect. Dreadlocks aren't something like getting a regular hair cut. It takes a long time of nasty, smelly, days without washing the hair. lol That's a big commitment. I wonder if that has anything to do with Manny not being "Manny" lately (as far as getting big hits in key situations).

 

 

Actually, the fact that Manny doesn't cut his hair is b/c

A) Who cares? As long as Manny performs...it doesn't really matter (regardless of what the media would make one believe).

B) Marketing. Dodger hats have actually been worn lately, with dreadlocks on them. If you haven't noticed games at Dodger Stadium of late...basically, everyone is wearing those hats, all of the sudden.

Sadly, Freddi will be back because the FO likes a pion who will do their bidding. But please, this glass half empty mentality is ridiculous. You people make it sound like this team is a bunch of idiots and he made them come together. Give me a break. This team, if run properly and disciplined properly, is a playoff caliber team that should be leading this relatively weak division. Instead, the new goal is to have a winning season. He has not impressed me with anything. The defense is bad from mental mistakes attributed to lack of discipline and he can't motivate his players to realize what's at stake (you can see it in their play from an offense perspective). This does not need a cheerleading, anal by the book manager.

 

But like I said, he'll back next year so this thread is a moot point.

Sadly, Freddi will be back because the FO likes a pion who will do their bidding. But please, this glass half empty mentality is ridiculous. You people make it sound like this team is a bunch of idiots and he made them come together. Give me a break. This team, if run properly and disciplined properly, is a playoff caliber team that should be leading this relatively weak division. Instead, the new goal is to have a winning season. He has not impressed me with anything. The defense is bad from mental mistakes attributed to lack of discipline and he can't motivate his players to realize what's at stake (you can see it in their play from an offense perspective). This does not need a cheerleading, anal by the book manager.

 

But like I said, he'll back next year so this thread is a moot point.

Thank you somebody finally gets it! It's great to be understood. For the record I also doubt that Fredi's job is in jeopardy, which is sad as of itself

Fredi is not going anywhere. The players will receive the blame this round. The front office is going to get rid of the main problem players and address the lack of fundamentals.

 

Once we replace those players, Fredi will then be fair game for criticism. Fredi needs to prove that he and his coaching staff can develop and mentor young players. We need to see some progress under his watch. Will this team continue to be stupid under his watch? Will they continue to be horrible fundamentally? If the answer is yes, then Fredi will have a lot to answer to.

Sadly, Freddi will be back because the FO likes a pion who will do their bidding. But please, this glass half empty mentality is ridiculous. You people make it sound like this team is a bunch of idiots and he made them come together. Give me a break. This team, if run properly and disciplined properly, is a playoff caliber team that should be leading this relatively weak division. Instead, the new goal is to have a winning season. He has not impressed me with anything. The defense is bad from mental mistakes attributed to lack of discipline and he can't motivate his players to realize what's at stake (you can see it in their play from an offense perspective). This does not need a cheerleading, anal by the book manager.

 

But like I said, he'll back next year so this thread is a moot point.

 

The infield coach is Andy Fox, and the hitting coach is Jim Presley. Seems like you're blaming the wrong guy.

Fredi wasn't hired to work with the fielders, nor was he hired to work with the hitters. He was hired to manage. He might make some questionable moves...but so does every other manager.

 

If you really believe what you said...back it up with specific in-game decisions you feel Fredi has messed up in, consistently.

Sadly, Freddi will be back because the FO likes a pion who will do their bidding. But please, this glass half empty mentality is ridiculous. You people make it sound like this team is a bunch of idiots and he made them come together. Give me a break. This team, if run properly and disciplined properly, is a playoff caliber team that should be leading this relatively weak division. Instead, the new goal is to have a winning season. He has not impressed me with anything. The defense is bad from mental mistakes attributed to lack of discipline and he can't motivate his players to realize what's at stake (you can see it in their play from an offense perspective). This does not need a cheerleading, anal by the book manager.

 

But like I said, he'll back next year so this thread is a moot point.

 

The infield coach is Andy Fox, and the hitting coach is Jim Presley. Seems like you're blaming the wrong guy.

Fredi wasn't hired to work with the fielders, nor was he hired to work with the hitters. He was hired to manage. He might make some questionable moves...but so does every other manager.

 

If you really believe what you said...back it up with specific in-game decisions you feel Fredi has messed up in, consistently.

 

Closing in on 300 games as our manager, it should be pretty easy to find a few things that he did wrong. And I'm quite sure the negative minded, hates everything Marlins management/FO if we aren't winning types out there will be more than happy to point them out.

 

But I think the good far outweigh the bad.

Fredi is not going anywhere. The players will receive the blame this round. The front office is going to get rid of the main problem players and address the lack of fundamentals.

 

Once we replace those players, Fredi will then be fair game for criticism. Fredi needs to prove that he and his coaching staff can develop and mentor young players. We need to see some progress under his watch. Will this team continue to be stupid under his watch? Will they continue to be horrible fundamentally? If the answer is yes, then Fredi will have a lot to answer to.

 

 

I'll go with this for the most part. I believe next year is Fredi's make it or break it year. I'm also interested to see what he does with his coaches this off season. IMO, Pressley and Fox need to move on. But my opinion matters squat.

 

I also have to wonder... Who was responsible for hiring Andy in the first place?? A late hire to replace a "god's" unexpected and quick retirement last year. I gave him slack last season, but not this. There has been little , if any, improvement in his area. With the exception of Cantu being alot better defensively as the year moved on. But I tend to give that credit to Jorge getting used to the position more than Andy teaching him better ways. And being truthful with myself, it's actually most likely a combination of the two. Andy had big shoes to fill and anything less than filling them was bound to be a letdown. He was bound to fail.