February 6, 200917 yr Anyway, on Sun-Sentinal it says that a source close to the Marlins' front office said it would only work if it were a performance laden contract worth $1 M, which I might add is, to a future HOFer like Pudge Rodriguez, quite insulting IMO. I don't think it's insulting at all. Pudge should get paid on what he can do now, not on what he did back in the day. Being a future Hall of Famer is irrelevant.
February 6, 200917 yr Anyway, on Sun-Sentinal it says that a source close to the Marlins' front office said it would only work if it were a performance laden contract worth $1 M, which I might add is, to a future HOFer like Pudge Rodriguez, quite insulting IMO. I don't think it's insulting at all. Pudge should get paid on what he can do now, not on what he did back in the day. Being a future Hall of Famer is irrelevant. His numbers from last year are certainly worth more than $1 mil.
February 6, 200917 yr Anyway, on Sun-Sentinal it says that a source close to the Marlins' front office said it would only work if it were a performance laden contract worth $1 M, which I might add is, to a future HOFer like Pudge Rodriguez, quite insulting IMO. I don't think it's insulting at all. Pudge should get paid on what he can do now, not on what he did back in the day. Being a future Hall of Famer is irrelevant. His numbers from last year are certainly worth more than $1 mil. An 87 OPS+ that is going to play less than half of the time is worth more than $1 mil? If so, not by much.
February 6, 200917 yr Anyway, on Sun-Sentinal it says that a source close to the Marlins' front office said it would only work if it were a performance laden contract worth $1 M, which I might add is, to a future HOFer like Pudge Rodriguez, quite insulting IMO. I don't think it's insulting at all. Pudge should get paid on what he can do now, not on what he did back in the day. Being a future Hall of Famer is irrelevant. His numbers from last year are certainly worth more than $1 mil. An 87 OPS+ that is going to play less than half of the time is worth more than $1 mil? If so, not by much. Meh. He can still hit for average and his overall OPS was decent especially considering he played in two pitcher's parks. A +87 is pretty egregious but I still think its a low offer. Maybe not face slapping insulting but still low.
February 6, 200917 yr Anyway, on Sun-Sentinal it says that a source close to the Marlins' front office said it would only work if it were a performance laden contract worth $1 M, which I might add is, to a future HOFer like Pudge Rodriguez, quite insulting IMO. I don't think it's insulting at all. Pudge should get paid on what he can do now, not on what he did back in the day. Being a future Hall of Famer is irrelevant. His numbers from last year are certainly worth more than $1 mil. An 87 OPS+ that is going to play less than half of the time is worth more than $1 mil? If so, not by much. Meh. He can still hit for average and his overall OPS was decent especially considering he played in two pitcher's parks. A +87 is pretty egregious but I still think its a low offer. Maybe not face slapping insulting but still low. His OPS was not decent. It was sh*tty. And as far as hitting for average, we both know it's worth nothing when you've had one of the worst OBP at your position in the last few years.
February 6, 200917 yr His OPS was not decent. It was sh*tty. And as far as hitting for average, we both know it's worth nothing when you've had one of the worst OBP at your position in the last few years. Again... declining vet in two pitcher's parks. Like I told you, .714 is far from great but all things considered, being roughly 20 points off the average catcher's OPS isn't eye poppingly horrendous.
February 6, 200917 yr His OPS was not decent. It was sh*tty. And as far as hitting for average, we both know it's worth nothing when you've had one of the worst OBP at your position in the last few years. Again... declining vet in two pitcher's parks. Like I told you, .714 is far from great but all things considered, being roughly 20 points off the average catcher's OPS isn't eye poppingly horrendous. Declining vet has nothing to do with anything. I don't care where he played in 2003 or how great of a career he's had. I only care about his recent history and that goes for every potential signing. With that said, OPS+ adjusts for park factors and that was well below average.
February 6, 200917 yr His OPS was not decent. It was sh*tty. And as far as hitting for average, we both know it's worth nothing when you've had one of the worst OBP at your position in the last few years. Again... declining vet in two pitcher's parks. Like I told you, .714 is far from great but all things considered, being roughly 20 points off the average catcher's OPS isn't eye poppingly horrendous. Declining vet has nothing to do with anything. I don't care where he played in 2003 or how great of a career he's had. I only care about his recent history and that goes for every potential signing. With that said, OPS+ adjusts for park factors and that was well below average. FTW. That's all.
February 6, 200917 yr I just checked, and here are all the left Catchers in free agency Gary Bennett Sal Fasano Paul Lo Duca Pudge and no joke, that's all that's left. We screwed ourselves imo by not grabbing an Ausmus or David Ross when we had the chance. By no means am i a fan of these two, but it seems very unlikely at this point that we are getting pudge, and either of these two would've been an upgrade over Rabelo at backup. I honestly think their is a better chance of seeing LoDuca rather than Pudge.
February 6, 200917 yr The only reason his 2008 numbers look the way they do is because of what happened in 33 games in New York. You look at the remaining 300 at bats (Detroit .295/.338/.417/.755) and I think most people would say they'd take those numbers from their backup catcher any day.
February 6, 200917 yr The only reason his 2008 numbers look the way they do is because of what happened in 33 games in New York. You look at the remaining 300 at bats (Detroit .295/.338/.417/.755) and I think most people would say they'd take those numbers from their backup catcher any day. But, as I've told you many times, I'm not just looking at his numbers from last year. I'm looking at the fact that he's been one of the worst OBP catchers for the last 4 years.
February 6, 200917 yr I just checked, and here are all the left Catchers in free agency Gary Bennett Sal Fasano Paul Lo Duca Pudge and no joke, that's all that's left. We screwed ourselves imo by not grabbing an Ausmus or David Ross when we had the chance. By no means am i a fan of these two, but it seems very unlikely at this point that we are getting pudge, and either of these two would've been an upgrade over Rabelo at backup. David Ross isn't good and Ausmus didn't want to play here anyways. Yeah, I know I was the one who brought up Ausmus in the first place, but I did say that it was just a pipe dream on my part and that I never saw it happening.
February 6, 200917 yr The only reason his 2008 numbers look the way they do is because of what happened in 33 games in New York. You look at the remaining 300 at bats (Detroit .295/.338/.417/.755) and I think most people would say they'd take those numbers from their backup catcher any day. But, as I've told you many times, I'm not just looking at his numbers from last year. I'm looking at the fact that he's been one of the worst OBP catchers for the last 4 years. I'm sure you recognize that people can look at things differently and still respect each other's opinion and that at least one of us is of the opinion that OBP isn't necessarily what everyone has to look at in determining the potential contribution of a backup catcher. That said, I've never said we have to sign Pudge. I don't think he'd be the liability others do but I'm comfortable with the choice if it happens and I'm comfortable with whatever other choice might be made within so long as he's good or better defensively than Baker (that is not a shot at JB). I have no illusions that the 2009 Pudge isn't the 2003 Pudge, but then again I don't think many people do.
February 6, 200917 yr The only reason his 2008 numbers look the way they do is because of what happened in 33 games in New York. You look at the remaining 300 at bats (Detroit .295/.338/.417/.755) and I think most people would say they'd take those numbers from their backup catcher any day. But, as I've told you many times, I'm not just looking at his numbers from last year. I'm looking at the fact that he's been one of the worst OBP catchers for the last 4 years. I'm sure you recognize that people can look at things differently and still respect each other's opinion and that at least one of us is of the opinion that OBP isn't necessarily what everyone has to look at in determining the potential contribution of a backup catcher. That said, I've never said we have to sign Pudge. I don't think he'd be the liability others do but I'm comfortable with the choice if it happens and I'm comfortable with whatever other choice might be made within so long as he's good or better defensively than Baker (that is not a shot at JB). I have no illusions that the 2009 Pudge isn't the 2003 Pudge, but then again I don't think many people do. I don't see anyone calling Pudge a liability, really.
February 6, 200917 yr I'd love if we got Coste, I'd love if we got Pudge. Either way it doesn't make much of a difference to me. But, I'd much rather us go after Pudge before attempting Coste. We don't have to give up any talent for him, and you know he isn't coming with a big price tag at this point.
February 7, 200917 yr im so sick of this team being so fudgin cheap... look i know pudge is not the pudge of 03 but still its pudge! the guy contributes on and off the field... open up the checkbook damn it! tell him look pudge, your not what you use to be and you know that. We love this Baker kid and we think he can do great things, why not help him out? why not come back to the place where you got a ring? the fans love you and well you wont be the starter,but you wont exactly be sitting on the bench the whole season, you'll get your PT. get it done... and if not, bring me Coste damn it...
February 7, 200917 yr The only reason his 2008 numbers look the way they do is because of what happened in 33 games in New York. You look at the remaining 300 at bats (Detroit .295/.338/.417/.755) and I think most people would say they'd take those numbers from their backup catcher any day. I'd take that line from my starting catcher any day. That line represents a 90 point OPS swing from Marlins catchers in 2008. Basically, that's minimum 3 additional wins over the course of a season, with a lot of room for growth. Baker and Pudge would be absolutely perfect. Just start them out on a 4/3 starting split, and then the 'winner' can start 5 days a week if someone really pulls away. Keeping them both fresh is only going to help both of them.
February 7, 200917 yr The only reason his 2008 numbers look the way they do is because of what happened in 33 games in New York. You look at the remaining 300 at bats (Detroit .295/.338/.417/.755) and I think most people would say they'd take those numbers from their backup catcher any day. Keeping them both fresh is only going to help both of them. :thumbup
February 7, 200917 yr Not advocating for either senior back up, but LoDuca is out there as well and may also be under consideration although seemingly never-ending injuries make him even less a candidate in my eyes. I came across an interesting article this morning I'd like to share. That it focuses on Chris Coste is not germane to this thread really, I'm posting it more for the broader context of catcher evaluation. It's worth a read for those interested in the subject. http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/sports/200...uiz__Coste.html
February 8, 200917 yr Coste has impressed me for sure. Twice I've gone to see the Phillies play the Marlins and twice he smacked the crap out of the ball.
February 16, 200917 yr Free agent Ivan Rodriguez said he is looking at the Marlins, Astros and Mets as possibilities. This comes just a day after the Astros indicated that they haven't talked to him in weeks. The Mets might have interest, but they'd have to find a taker for Ramon Castro, something that seems unlikely to happen. Florida has looked like the best fit for months now, though Rodriguez would probably have to sign for $1 million or so.Source: The Associated Press Rotoworld Sounds like good stuff. I don't see anyone taking on Castro's salary, and Beinfest may just pull the rabbit out of the hat here. It's odd that Pudge would show his hand like that though, no?
February 16, 200917 yr Free agent Ivan Rodriguez said he is looking at the Marlins, Astros and Mets as possibilities. This comes just a day after the Astros indicated that they haven't talked to him in weeks. The Mets might have interest, but they'd have to find a taker for Ramon Castro, something that seems unlikely to happen. Florida has looked like the best fit for months now, though Rodriguez would probably have to sign for $1 million or so.Source: The Associated Press Rotoworld Sounds like good stuff. I don't see anyone taking on Castro's salary, and Beinfest may just pull the rabbit out of the hat here. It's odd that Pudge would show his hand like that though, no? He doesn't have a job, he has no suiters. What else is he going to do? We flat out make the most sense logistically with our C depth chart, and because he is a god down here. It just makes to much sense. He'll sign here eventually. The Marlins can guarantee him a bill, tac on some incentives, and still be under $35 million opening day.
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