We can have patience with young players, but we also have to try and win ball games. You can just throw them out there if they are a detriment to the team's performance.

 

and this is the problem.

 

We came into the year with high expectations of Maybin but we also knew there was a good chance he'd struggle.

 

The problem is, well, you can have your 8th hitter putting up a sub.700 OPS.

 

But when you have a 3b OPS .594, a 2b OPSing .649, and a RF OPSing .626....well, hiding that guy in the 8th hole become a hell of a lot harder.

 

And while 2b and RF should certainly come around, 3b won't. And hiding two players in your line up is a lot harder than hiding one.

 

So it comes down to who do you send down. Maybin has more potential, younger, and has only spent one full year above A ball (AA). Bonfiacio has a lot less potential, so if he breaks right now it's not a big deal, and has more minor league seasoning under his belt, having had a near full year at AAA. Ontop of which, Emilio is also playing better defense than Maybin is.

Good. This is good for him and good for the club.

At this point, he is well behind Sun-Sentinel's claim that he was the second coming of Ken Griffey Jr.

 

"The Kid" was already a great player at 20. Maybin is 22 and going nowhere fast.

Because everyone's Ken Griffey Jr. right?

At this point, he is well behind Sun-Sentinel's claim that he was the second coming of Ken Griffey Jr.

 

"The Kid" was already a great player at 20. Maybin is 22 and going nowhere fast.

Because everyone's Ken Griffey Jr. right?

 

No, come on. But you can't ignore the fact that this is a huge setback. He'll work it out, I think. But I'm not sure he'll amount to what everyone though he'd be.

At this point, he is well behind Sun-Sentinel's claim that he was the second coming of Ken Griffey Jr.

 

"The Kid" was already a great player at 20. Maybin is 22 and going nowhere fast.

Because everyone's Ken Griffey Jr. right?

 

No, come on. But you can't ignore the fact that this is a huge setback. He'll work it out, I think. But I'm not sure he'll amount to what everyone though he'd be.

Why is it a setback? Because he hasn't come up mashing like everyone would've liked? It's not a setback. It's a guy not producing immediately and everyone jumping to conclusions.

Too bad Bonifacio belongs there or on the bench a hell of a lot more than Maybin.

 

This is a great example of how overstating your case can make a potentially valid point seem totally absurd. The above post is plainly wrong, or at least completely unsubstantiated.

At this point, he is well behind Sun-Sentinel's claim that he was the second coming of Ken Griffey Jr.

 

"The Kid" was already a great player at 20. Maybin is 22 and going nowhere fast.

Because everyone's Ken Griffey Jr. right?

 

No, come on. But you can't ignore the fact that this is a huge setback. He'll work it out, I think. But I'm not sure he'll amount to what everyone though he'd be.

Why is it a setback? Because he hasn't come up mashing like everyone would've liked? It's not a setback. It's a guy not producing immediately and everyone jumping to conclusions.

 

No its a guy getting K'ed time after time and continuing to not recognize pitches.

 

It is definitely a setback. I agree with your assertion that he isn't done and that we shouldn't give up on him. But don't be blind this is absolutely a setback. You can call it anything you want but this is a player who played incredibly well last season while in the big leagues and looked ready to move forward. Right now he is farther behind than he was when we called him up last season. What do you call that scenario?

Too bad Bonifacio belongs there or on the bench a hell of a lot more than Maybin.

 

This is a great example of how overstating your case can make a potentially valid point seem totally absurd. The above post is plainly wrong, or at least completely unsubstantiated.

 

Agreed. Benched you are being ridiculous. Bonafacio has played monumentally better than Maybin.

No its a guy getting K'ed time after time and continuing to not recognize pitches.

 

It is definitely a setback. I agree with your assertion that he isn't done and that we shouldn't give up on him. But don't be blind this is absolutely a setback. You can call it anything you want but this is a player who played incredibly well last season while in the big leagues and looked ready to move forward. Right now he is farther behind than he was when we called him up last season. What do you call that scenario?

Ever think that he's King a lot because he's hitting eighth and seeing garbage pitches when he's a natural leadoff hitter?

Too bad Bonifacio belongs there or on the bench a hell of a lot more than Maybin.

 

This is a great example of how overstating your case can make a potentially valid point seem totally absurd. The above post is plainly wrong, or at least completely unsubstantiated.

 

Agreed. Benched you are being ridiculous. Bonafacio has played monumentally better than Maybin.

In the first week of the season, maybe.

 

This is all knee-jerk reaction. Nothing more or less.

No its a guy getting K'ed time after time and continuing to not recognize pitches.

 

It is definitely a setback. I agree with your assertion that he isn't done and that we shouldn't give up on him. But don't be blind this is absolutely a setback. You can call it anything you want but this is a player who played incredibly well last season while in the big leagues and looked ready to move forward. Right now he is farther behind than he was when we called him up last season. What do you call that scenario?

Ever think that he's King a lot because he's hitting eighth and seeing garbage pitches when he's a natural leadoff hitter?

 

You made my point for me. He's not developing. He's King on "garbage pitches". That is your own language. This isn't knee jerk at all. You leave him in the majors you could lose him in the long run. Don't be so shortsighted.

No its a guy getting K'ed time after time and continuing to not recognize pitches.

 

It is definitely a setback. I agree with your assertion that he isn't done and that we shouldn't give up on him. But don't be blind this is absolutely a setback. You can call it anything you want but this is a player who played incredibly well last season while in the big leagues and looked ready to move forward. Right now he is farther behind than he was when we called him up last season. What do you call that scenario?

Ever think that he's King a lot because he's hitting eighth and seeing garbage pitches when he's a natural leadoff hitter?

 

You made my point for me. He's not developing. He's King on "garbage pitches". That is your own language. This isn't knee jerk at all. You leave him in the majors you could lose him in the long run. Don't be so shortsighted.

So because the guy was moved to an unnatural position and is striking out because of it in his rookie year, you think we're going to lose him.

 

I don't understand this logic at all.

No its a guy getting K'ed time after time and continuing to not recognize pitches.

 

It is definitely a setback. I agree with your assertion that he isn't done and that we shouldn't give up on him. But don't be blind this is absolutely a setback. You can call it anything you want but this is a player who played incredibly well last season while in the big leagues and looked ready to move forward. Right now he is farther behind than he was when we called him up last season. What do you call that scenario?

Ever think that he's King a lot because he's hitting eighth and seeing garbage pitches when he's a natural leadoff hitter?

 

You made my point for me. He's not developing. He's King on "garbage pitches". That is your own language. This isn't knee jerk at all. You leave him in the majors you could lose him in the long run. Don't be so shortsighted.

So because the guy was moved to an unnatural position and is striking out because of it in his rookie year, you think we're going to lose him.

 

I don't understand this logic at all.

 

Your either :smlove or :smlove . To argue that this is all because he is hitting 8 is :smlove but w/e the real issue is how poor he looks at the plate. The K's are destroying his confidence. He will continue to K even under your :smlove logic. If he continues to lose confidence and struggle he can become a lost prospect. It happens all the time. The minor leagues exist for a reason. Therefore, the solution is to give him to time to work and regroup in the minors where he can hit in his natural spot.

Your either dense or pig headed. To argue that this is all because he is hitting 8 is silly but w/e the real issue is how poor he looks at the plate. The K's are destroying his confidence. He will continue to K even under your silly logic. If he continues to lose confidence and struggle he can become a lost prospect. It happens all the time. The minor leagues exist for a reason. Therefore, the solution is to give him to time to work and regroup in the minors where he can hit in his natural spot.

Way to break out the insults.

 

Anyways, you have one person to blame for his "confidence being destroyed" because of Ks: Fredi Gonzalez.

Your either dense or pig headed. To argue that this is all because he is hitting 8 is silly but w/e the real issue is how poor he looks at the plate. The K's are destroying his confidence. He will continue to K even under your silly logic. If he continues to lose confidence and struggle he can become a lost prospect. It happens all the time. The minor leagues exist for a reason. Therefore, the solution is to give him to time to work and regroup in the minors where he can hit in his natural spot.

Way to break out the insults.

 

Anyways, you have one person to blame for his "confidence being destroyed" because of Ks: Fredi Gonzalez.

 

I'm not trying to insult you. I apologize.

 

I'm just not sure why you are saying that this is because he's batting 8? He has K-ed 31 times this year and while doing so has looked terrible. I want the team to do well and I want Maybin to do well. My opinion is that he should go to the minors and work on his issues.

 

Again I apologize I shouldn't have posted those insults.

Cameron Maybin's name is now officially Cameron MAYBE.

Your either dense or pig headed. To argue that this is all because he is hitting 8 is silly but w/e the real issue is how poor he looks at the plate. The K's are destroying his confidence. He will continue to K even under your silly logic. If he continues to lose confidence and struggle he can become a lost prospect. It happens all the time. The minor leagues exist for a reason. Therefore, the solution is to give him to time to work and regroup in the minors where he can hit in his natural spot.

Way to break out the insults.

 

Anyways, you have one person to blame for his "confidence being destroyed" because of Ks: Fredi Gonzalez.

 

I'm not trying to insult you. I apologize.

 

I'm just not sure why you are saying that this is because he's batting 8? He has K-ed 31 times this year and while doing so has looked terrible. I want the team to do well and I want Maybin to do well. My opinion is that he should go to the minors and work on his issues.

 

Again I apologize I shouldn't have posted those insults.

I can't break out the percentage numbers because quite frankly, I'm too lazy to do so but I will guarantee the number of fastballs and the number of strikes (pitches in the zone) he has seen this year compared to his cup of coffee last year has drastically decreased all because he has been hitting eighth thus his numbers have fallen. He's never hit this deep in the order in his career and he shouldn't be right now. Once the Bonifacio love fest is over with and he gets moved up in the order again, I'm willing to bet his K totals decrease again.

We can have patience with young players, but we also have to try and win ball games. You can just throw them out there if they are a detriment to the team's performance.

 

and this is the problem.

 

We came into the year with high expectations of Maybin but we also knew there was a good chance he'd struggle.

 

The problem is, well, you can have your 8th hitter putting up a sub.700 OPS.

 

But when you have a 3b OPS .594, a 2b OPSing .649, and a RF OPSing .626....well, hiding that guy in the 8th hole become a hell of a lot harder.

 

And while 2b and RF should certainly come around, 3b won't. And hiding two players in your line up is a lot harder than hiding one.

 

So it comes down to who do you send down. Maybin has more potential, younger, and has only spent one full year above A ball (AA). Bonfiacio has a lot less potential, so if he breaks right now it's not a big deal, and has more minor league seasoning under his belt, having had a near full year at AAA. Ontop of which, Emilio is also playing better defense than Maybin is.

 

right, I was going to make this point earlier. There was a very good chance we were going to have 2 and possibly 3 rookies playing a big role this season regardless, and rookie struggles aren't unexpected. If Uggla and Ross weren't in the toilet right now we could afford to be much more patient with Maybin.

Your either dense or pig headed. To argue that this is all because he is hitting 8 is silly but w/e the real issue is how poor he looks at the plate. The K's are destroying his confidence. He will continue to K even under your silly logic. If he continues to lose confidence and struggle he can become a lost prospect. It happens all the time. The minor leagues exist for a reason. Therefore, the solution is to give him to time to work and regroup in the minors where he can hit in his natural spot.

Way to break out the insults.

 

Anyways, you have one person to blame for his "confidence being destroyed" because of Ks: Fredi Gonzalez.

 

I'm not trying to insult you. I apologize.

 

I'm just not sure why you are saying that this is because he's batting 8? He has K-ed 31 times this year and while doing so has looked terrible. I want the team to do well and I want Maybin to do well. My opinion is that he should go to the minors and work on his issues.

 

Again I apologize I shouldn't have posted those insults.

I can't break out the percentage numbers because quite frankly, I'm too lazy to do so but I will guarantee the number of fastballs and the number of strikes (pitches in the zone) he has seen this year compared to his cup of coffee last year has drastically decreased all because he has been hitting eighth thus his numbers have fallen. He's never hit this deep in the order in his career and he shouldn't be right now. Once the Bonifacio love fest is over with and he gets moved up in the order again, I'm willing to bet his K totals decrease again.

 

But beyond the K's...you don't think he looks over matched and out of his element?

But beyond the K's...you don't think he looks over matched and out of his element?

That wasn't your original argument. Your original gripe was that his confidence was being destroyed by strikeouts. The only reason that's happening is because he's hitting in a completely unfamiliar spot in the lineup as a rookie. And if he does look out of his element at the plate, once again, this is why. Its night and day hitting leadoff and hitting at the bottom of the order in an irrelevant spot. Completely night and day.

I'd like to agree with you on this Benched because I'll be the most patient guy in the world with Maybin, but he has almost the same # of at-bats in the 2 spot as he does in the 8th, and aside from the K rate I'm not seeing much of a difference....

 

still very early though, not really enough at-bats to make the point yet...

I'd like to agree with you on this Benched because I'll be the most patient guy in the world with Maybin, but he has almost the same # of at-bats in the 2 spot as he does in the 8th, and aside from the K rate I'm not seeing much of a difference.... still very early though, probably not enough at-bats to make a point.

Even at lower levels though, he's always been a top of the order guy.

But beyond the K's...you don't think he looks over matched and out of his element?

That wasn't your original argument. Your original gripe was that his confidence was being destroyed by strikeouts. The only reason that's happening is because he's hitting in a completely unfamiliar spot in the lineup as a rookie. And if he does look out of his element at the plate, once again, this is why. Its night and day hitting leadoff and hitting at the bottom of the order in an irrelevant spot. Completely night and day.

 

I'm not sure what you mean but "that wasn't your original argument"...

 

He looks horrible. I think his confidence is being crushed day after day. I don't really think that's Fredi's fault, how can you hit someone leadoff when they look so terrible at the plate day in day out. If you think that hitting him leadoff solves the issue more power to you. I think you are wrong.

 

I'm not going to keep arguing because you have made up your mind and are unwilling to even consider that he may not be producing because he isn't ready for the rigors of everyday play.

 

I don't know what you base your position on...Maybe it is on his 32 AB's at the end of last season. But if you look at what he has done this year he needs to be in the minors it's that simple, in my mind.

I'd like to agree with you on this Benched because I'll be the most patient guy in the world with Maybin, but he has almost the same # of at-bats in the 2 spot as he does in the 8th, and aside from the K rate I'm not seeing much of a difference....

 

still very early though, not really enough at-bats to make the point yet...

You beat me to it..

 

Maybin has more PAs batting 1st and 2nd (47) than batting 8th (43) and has struggled even more hitting at the top of the order. His struggles are not caused by where he hits.

 

Batting 1st - 10 PAs / .311 OPS

Batting 2nd - 37 PAs / .601 OPS

Batting 8th - 43 PAs / .654 OPS

Your either dense or pig headed. To argue that this is all because he is hitting 8 is silly but w/e the real issue is how poor he looks at the plate. The K's are destroying his confidence. He will continue to K even under your silly logic. If he continues to lose confidence and struggle he can become a lost prospect. It happens all the time. The minor leagues exist for a reason. Therefore, the solution is to give him to time to work and regroup in the minors where he can hit in his natural spot.

Way to break out the insults.

 

Anyways, you have one person to blame for his "confidence being destroyed" because of Ks: Fredi Gonzalez.

 

I'm not trying to insult you. I apologize.

 

I'm just not sure why you are saying that this is because he's batting 8? He has K-ed 31 times this year and while doing so has looked terrible. I want the team to do well and I want Maybin to do well. My opinion is that he should go to the minors and work on his issues.

 

Again I apologize I shouldn't have posted those insults.

I can't break out the percentage numbers because quite frankly, I'm too lazy to do so but I will guarantee the number of fastballs and the number of strikes (pitches in the zone) he has seen this year compared to his cup of coffee last year has drastically decreased all because he has been hitting eighth thus his numbers have fallen. He's never hit this deep in the order in his career and he shouldn't be right now. Once the Bonifacio love fest is over with and he gets moved up in the order again, I'm willing to bet his K totals decrease again.

 

You shouldn't guarantee something if you're not going to even look it up.

 

He's seeing a FB nearly 7% more this year (51.7% v.s. 58.3%)

 

He is seeing a lot more pitches out of the strikezone (58.3% v.s. 48.9%). However, the ML average for pitches in the strike zone is (drum roll) 48.9%. So he's seeing the average amount of strikes, and last year he saw a lot more strikes than average. In other words, he's going to be seeing 48.9% strikes going forward, not near-60%.