Darren Daulton Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I know that having Amezaga off the bench is a great comfortable thing for Fredi Do you think that Fredi would keep Amezaga out of the lineup if he really thought he had more offensive capabilities than our leadoff hitter? I like Alfredo, and sometimes EB makes me think that anyone else should get a look, but I don't think Fredi would be biting off his nose to spite his face. He thinks Bonifacio is (can be) a better offensive player than Amezaga and he really is not so crazy for thinking that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This news has nothing to do with Bonifacio, by the way. How does it have nothing to do with Boni? It has everything to do with him, as many think that he should be replaced by Coghlan, not Maybin. In other words, the reason that the news pertains to EB is because people think it should be EB instead of Maybin getting sent down. If that's what you mean, I agree. Not only because it should be, but because it could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcFishFan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Well, one factor here is defense. Bonifacio's offensive upside is more limited than Maybin's, but so far, Maybin has not been even average in CF, and Boni has acquitted himself nicely at the hot corner. I'm all in favor of sending Maybin down. Do we save any time on his eligibility for arbitration by sending him to the minors -- does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Well, one factor here is defense. Bonifacio's offensive upside is more limited than Maybin's, but so far, Maybin has not been even average in CF, and Boni has acquitted himself nicely at the hot corner. I'm all in favor of sending Maybin down. Do we save any time on his eligibility for arbitration by sending him to the minors -- does anyone know? I don't expect that moving Hermida from left to right and putting Coghlan in LF without ever doing as much as catching a fly ball out there is going to improve defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxheaven Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 At this point, he is well behind Sun-Sentinel's claim that he was the second coming of Ken Griffey Jr. "The Kid" was already a great player at 20. Maybin is 22 and going nowhere fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 At this point, he is well behind Sun-Sentinel's claim that he was the second coming of Ken Griffey Jr. "The Kid" was already a great player at 20. Maybin is 22 and going nowhere fast. I'll quote me: I'm gonna play this game because I like it. We he was 21 years old, in his first season, after 25 games, Cal Ripken Jr was hitting a pathetic .184/.211/.333! That's worse than Maybin! And did the Orioles send him down? HELL YEAH! Wait...they didn't? How'd he do? Rookie of the Year, ey? Probably lucky, a 1 year thing. MVP the next year? Well, what's he up to these days? Wow. (Once again, not saying Maybin is going to win Rookie of the Year and then win the MVP award, then go to the HOF, but just pointing things out because it's fun for me.) Learn some patience sir. Either that or badmouth both him and the other 22 year old kid who's going "nowhere fast". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Also, being angry because someone isn't doing as well as one of the greatest players to every live did is rather... I'll go with naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnellders Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 So here is a viable comparison in my opinion: Cameron Maybin and Justin Upton. Maybin has seen some time in the majors in each of the past 3 seasons, albeit very few at bats. In total he has 165 AB's in which he is hitting .242/.309/.346. He has 14 walks in these 165 AB's and 2 HR. Meanwhile in 2007 Justin Upton saw 140 AB's in which he hit .221/.283/.364 with 11 walks and 2 HR. Obviously for a highly thought of prospect, Upton wasn't hitting well in his first 165 AB in the majors. Last year he got 356 AB's and although he only hit .250 he managed 15 dingers, so an improvement in the power department. This year Upton is off to a hot start, hitting .292/.376/.551 with 6 homers. Upton has now had a total of 581 AB's in the major leagues. I think it's clear that the basic point I'm making is that some top prospects simply need time before their natural skills translate into decent numbers in the majors. Maybin just needs to see as much major league pitches as possible because eventually, his bat will come to life, even if it's not this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 So here is a viable comparison in my opinion: Cameron Maybin and Justin Upton. Maybin has seen some time in the majors in each of the past 3 seasons, albeit very few at bats. In total he has 165 AB's in which he is hitting .242/.309/.346. He has 14 walks in these 165 AB's and 2 HR. Meanwhile in 2007 Justin Upton saw 140 AB's in which he hit .221/.283/.364 with 11 walks and 2 HR. Obviously for a highly thought of prospect, Upton wasn't hitting well in his first 165 AB in the majors. Last year he got 356 AB's and although he only hit .250 he managed 15 dingers, so an improvement in the power department. This year Upton is off to a hot start, hitting .292/.376/.551 with 6 homers. Upton has now had a total of 581 AB's in the major leagues. I think it's clear that the basic point I'm making is that some top prospects simply need time before their natural skills translate into decent numbers in the majors. Maybin just needs to see as much major league pitches as possible because eventually, his bat will come to life, even if it's not this year. Dale Murphy is also a good example. Not a HOFer, but a possible one plus a 2 time MVP, 7 time All-Star, 5 Gold Glover and 4 Silver Sluger. I was going to come up with a giant list of other HOFers with bad starts to great rookie seasons, but I found him. Dale Murphy, also at 22, had a worse start to his rookie season than Maybin and only ended up hitting .226/.284/.394 while racking up the K, but the Braves were smart enough to let him work on big league pitching in the bigs. Next season he hit a much better .276/.340/.469 and in his 3rd season he went to his first ASG and was 12th in MVP voting. Not everyone is Hanley, people. Most aren't. Get over it and chill out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto305 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 I'll take Pedro over Miller any day....and as much as i like sanchie him as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnellders Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 I'll take Pedro over Miller any day....and as much as i like sanchie him as well. Why? I dont see the benefit of paying big bucks to an old, injury prone player who hasnt been good in 4 years when we already have Miller, who has the potential to be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxheaven Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Rabbethen, I'll take Miller's 11 wins in 35 starts over Maybin's 2 home runs and 60 strike outs in 57 career games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Rabbethen, I'll take Miller's 11 wins in 35 starts over Maybin's 2 home runs and 60 strike outs in 57 career games. Hehehe. You think he's been decent. That's almost cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Very few players explode onto the scene in their first 160 ABs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Very few players explode onto the scene in their first 160 ABs. What are you talking about! Didn't you see that Ken Griffey Jr did! Send this Maybin kid down. Also, make Miller our ace. Actually, we can have them practice against eachother, now that I think of it. Maybe if Maybin faces Miller, he'll start hitting the .298/.393/.447 that everyone else is against him. And it's highly unlikely Maybin will strike out, since Miller has barely been able to find the strikezone in 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This thread is full of silly. From giving up on the likes of Maybin/Miller, to wanting Brett Carroll to get starts, to wanting Amezaga to play 3B while Bonifacio(ut) plays bench (it's the same thing...they are both utility players, who shouldn't be starting everyday), to giving Bonifacio(ut) some more time so we can see De Aza again (b/c that will significantly improve our team ), to preferring Pedro over Miller/Anibal at this point (why pay 3+ million for mediocrity?), to saying this move was made b/c of defense (despite the fact Coghlan hasn't played the OF since he was 12)... Lots of funnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMagnus Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 We can have patience with young players, but we also have to try and win ball games. You can just throw them out there if they are a detriment to the team's performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This thread is full of silly. From giving up on the likes of Maybin/Miller, to wanting Brett Carroll to get starts, to wanting Amezaga to play 3B while Bonifacio(ut) plays bench (it's the same thing...they are both utility players, who shouldn't be starting everyday), to giving Bonifacio(ut) some more time so we can see De Aza again (b/c that will significantly improve our team ), to preferring Pedro over Miller/Anibal at this point (why pay 3+ million for mediocrity?), to saying this move was made b/c of defense (despite the fact Coghlan hasn't played the OF since he was 12)... Lots of funnies. Not true sir, Coghlan played the OF on Thursday, though he hasn't ever caught a fly ball since he was 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This thread is full of silly. From giving up on the likes of Maybin/Miller, to wanting Brett Carroll to get starts, to wanting Amezaga to play 3B while Bonifacio(ut) plays bench (it's the same thing...they are both utility players, who shouldn't be starting everyday), to giving Bonifacio(ut) some more time so we can see De Aza again (b/c that will significantly improve our team ), to preferring Pedro over Miller/Anibal at this point (why pay 3+ million for mediocrity?), to saying this move was made b/c of defense (despite the fact Coghlan hasn't played the OF since he was 12)... Lots of funnies. Not true sir, Coghlan played the OF on Thursday, though he hasn't ever caught a fly ball since he was 12. Anyway you put it, this move was purely made for offensive purposes. This won't improve the defense, as was said earlier in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This thread is full of silly. From giving up on the likes of Maybin/Miller, to wanting Brett Carroll to get starts, to wanting Amezaga to play 3B while Bonifacio(ut) plays bench (it's the same thing...they are both utility players, who shouldn't be starting everyday), to giving Bonifacio(ut) some more time so we can see De Aza again (b/c that will significantly improve our team ), to preferring Pedro over Miller/Anibal at this point (why pay 3+ million for mediocrity?), to saying this move was made b/c of defense (despite the fact Coghlan hasn't played the OF since he was 12)... Lots of funnies. Not true sir, Coghlan played the OF on Thursday, though he hasn't ever caught a fly ball since he was 12. Anyway you put it, this move was purely made for offensive purposes. This won't improve the defense, as was said earlier in this thread. Won't improve the pitching either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This thread is full of silly. From giving up on the likes of Maybin/Miller, to wanting Brett Carroll to get starts, to wanting Amezaga to play 3B while Bonifacio(ut) plays bench (it's the same thing...they are both utility players, who shouldn't be starting everyday), to giving Bonifacio(ut) some more time so we can see De Aza again (b/c that will significantly improve our team ), to preferring Pedro over Miller/Anibal at this point (why pay 3+ million for mediocrity?), to saying this move was made b/c of defense (despite the fact Coghlan hasn't played the OF since he was 12)... Lots of funnies. Not true sir, Coghlan played the OF on Thursday, though he hasn't ever caught a fly ball since he was 12. Anyway you put it, this move was purely made for offensive purposes. This won't improve the defense, as was said earlier in this thread. Won't improve the pitching either. Starting Pitching hasn't been a problem. (or so I hear) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This is good news. It looks like Coughlan will get a real shot and Maybin goes where he belongs. Too bad Bonifacio belongs there or on the bench a hell of a lot more than Maybin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Well, one factor here is defense. Bonifacio's offensive upside is more limited than Maybin's, but so far, Maybin has not been even average in CF, and Boni has acquitted himself nicely at the hot corner. I'm all in favor of sending Maybin down. Do we save any time on his eligibility for arbitration by sending him to the minors -- does anyone know? I don't expect that moving Hermida from left to right and putting Coghlan in LF without ever doing as much as catching a fly ball out there is going to improve defense. As I've told you, Hermida back in right is a huge mistake. Not because he can't play it but because swapping him back and forth like this from left to right especially in a park like ours isn't smart whatsoever because as much as they are completely different positions already, they're more different in LandShark Stadium. Not to mention he's been playing a good LF. Doing this just so Bonifacio can keep starting? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This is good news. It looks like Coughlan will get a real shot and Maybin goes where he belongs. Too bad Bonifacio belongs there or on the bench a hell of a lot more than Maybin. I agree Boni belongs in the minors or the bench however Maybin belongs in the minors. He certainly doesn't belong as a starter and he adds nothing on the bench plus he would benefit from additional seasoning in the minors. Righ now he looks overmatched. He's a swing and miss machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom2613 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 This is good news. It looks like Coughlan will get a real shot and Maybin goes where he belongs. Too bad Bonifacio belongs there or on the bench a hell of a lot more than Maybin. What? Both are equally deserving of being sent down or on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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