My point about you comparing him to Andrew Miller is that he has great stuff but no control .If his stuff is as good as you guys say, then we made a mistake not drafting him. I don't care If he has control issues NOW. He is young enough(18 years old) to develop control. And I have complete confidence in our Minor League coaches to do so with their past success.

So which is it? Is it scouting reports or eye reports that let you in on his poor control? You have insinuated it is both.

 

And I have read up plenty on Miller, and despite the scant mentions that his control is iffy SOMETIMES(never called poor, bad, terrible, adjectives you like...much like no one has ever said Minor had a "phenomenal" change), and alot of this is attributed to the fact that he likes pitching up in the zone. The curveball that "barely reached the plate" is already being considered a plus pitch. The fact that you continually bring up control with Miller and ignore the fact that James control has been questioned as much if not more than Millers(on top of having greatly inferior stuff to Miller at this point) makes me chuckle and think you have some bias against Shelby Miller.

 

In fact, I will avatar bet you, pending all 3 signing, that Miller makes the show before both Minor and James.

So which is it? Is it scouting reports or eye reports that let you in on his poor control? You have insinuated it is both.

 

And I have read up plenty on Miller, and despite the scant mentions that his control is iffy SOMETIMES(never called poor, bad, terrible, adjectives you like...much like no one has ever said Minor had a "phenomenal" change), and alot of this is attributed to the fact that he likes pitching up in the zone. The curveball that "barely reached the plate" is already being considered a plus pitch. The fact that you continually bring up control with Miller and ignore the fact that James control has been questioned as much if not more than Millers(on top of having greatly inferior stuff to Miller at this point) makes me chuckle and think you have some bias against Shelby Miller.

 

In fact, I will avatar bet you, pending all 3 signing, that Miller makes the show before both Minor and James.

 

 

 

Wow, that's not a smart bet.

Sure, but I'm not digging this thread out 4 years down the road.

 

And I even mentioned that James has some control issues as well, but it isn't as bad as Miller's control, plain and simple.

How do you figure? I've read more about James lack of control than I have Millers, and most of Miller's problems, if they can be called that, are caused by the way he likes to pitch.

Dim compared Shelby Miller to Andrew Miller. This explains it all.

 

 

 

wtf is your point? I'm saying that Miller according to every video I have watched and every scouting report I have read, has major control issues. A guy like Minor is a lot closer to a final product. Shelby Miller has mechanics issues as well, at least by drafting James we got a guy who has his mechanics for the most part down, better control (although still not great), and a changeup that has some good movement on it (definitely not as good of movement as that of Minor).

 

And Erick, I don't get the point of you commenting in this thread if you have no idea about any of these players. I've seen Miller, and he has big control issues. I'll take a guy who hits the corners with ease in Minor rather than spend 4 to 5 years trying to constantly change Miller's mechanics and help him in getting his pitches over the plate over and over again.

 

Chad James will grow into his body, and his pitches will gain speed and will become more refined over time, that is a guaruntee (sp?). Miller we have no idea whether he will ever get his control fixed.

 

 

You still never answered my question.

Why take control over stuff? Prospects are ranked based, primarily, on their stuff. Control issues can be fixed more easily. You don't teach velocity/stuff. You can teach a pitcher to have better control of his pitches by working with him with his mechanics, etc.

I've been reading up on Shelby Miller and I don't see the "control issues" comments either. The only thing I'm seeing that's currently a problem is that he only has 2 pitches, but supposedly he's already developing a 3rd pitch (changeup).

 

May I ask for articles/scouting reports on these control issues?

I have no doubt he might have some issues, pretty much like every high school pitcher ever. But to listen to Dim, its as if Miller's control issues are so bad, he has no idea where home plate is from the pitchers mound and he will never be able to fix them. Minor league pitching coaches will try to help but darn it he will always throw that upper 90s fastball and nasty curve with reckless abandon, no clue where they will land. It might be the catcher, it might be 3rd base, hell he might hit a little girl eating an ice cream cone in the outfield concourse his control is so terrible. And there is no chance these control issues(which, btw, have little documentation...much less documentation then the guy we actually took's control problems, btw) will ever improve. When he is a mop up reliever in Japan in 2 years...because his control is just that terrible and completely unfixable...he is going to knock the saki right out of the hands of some poor schmuck sitting in the upper deck down the first base line. I dont know why Miller even bothered becoming a prospect(the consensus best high school pitching prospect in the draft). He should just realize he has no idea how to throw a baseball and never will, go to college(where he shouldnt even attempt to join the baseball team because, you know, hot coeds dont like getting beaned in the face with baseballs as they are walking 2 blocks away from the school's ball diamond), get a part time job at Kinkos, settle into a life of middle management, and hope no one ever asks him to toss them the stapler, because it will be a flying device of death in the hands of somebody with his completely non existent control.

You must not get around to reading a lot of scouting reports. Not one scouting report failed to mention that Miller's curveball barely reached the plate, his fastball is all over the place, and his control is bad to put it nicely.

 

 

 

 

Then it should be easy to post an article. I'm obviously an outsider on this debate, but if you don't have references, what you post is hearsay.

 

Plain and simple, you keep saying about how you read about "x for miller" or "y for minor" or whatever, and then you get called out on it and told to post the article(s), and yet you never do. Brings up the question of how legit what your saying is.

http://mlb.mlb.com/m...?content=miller

http://prospectinsider.com/view/draft-prospect:-shelby-miller,-rhp/

 

http://2009mlbdraft....or-jeffrey.html

http://vucommodores.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/minor_mike00.html

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2009/reports.jsp?content=minor

 

Minor vs Miller

Due to his mild control problems, Miller was typically behind in the count, but did find the occasional opportunity to show off his curve. He threw it four times - it was whiffed at three times.

Biggest flaw is that he doesn't show consistent command and control, though some saw him more as a high strike zone pitcher.

Thanks for derailing your entire argument. I have stated a million times his "control problems" were due to his preference to pitching up.

 

Are you sure you want to post Minor's Vanderbilt player page? That links to his college stats, which are incredibly pedestrian. Is that blog from an actual scout or just a fan? Because the MLB scouts take is his changeup is a quality pitch...the blog calls it Santana-esque. I call shenanigans.

The two links you posted say nothing horrible of Miller's control problems.

 

One calls it "mild", the other said "inconsistent". Basically mirroring with Spike said and not what you said.

Spike beat me