The Hermida apologists repeatedly say Hermida is a good or an average defensive RF.

 

Supposedly the best defensive stats are the Fielding Bible's "Runs Saved" and UZR/150. One problem with "Runs Saved" is that it's a counting stat so guys who play more innings have a chance to save more runs. We'll use it anyways.

 

So lets see where Hermida ranks each of the past 3 years.

 

For the "Runs Saved" rankings that I found a site that ranked 35 players for each position for each year. That's what I used.

 

UZR/150 allows you to select the minimum innings. I selected a minimum of 650 innings because that's the minimun number of innings I could select so that Hermida would be include all 3 years.

 

Here are Hermida's defensive rankings:

 

Per the Fielding Bible

'06 - 24th out of 35 (this is bad)

'07 - 11th out of 35 (this is good)

'08 - 25th out of 35 (this is bad)

 

Per UZR/150

'06 - 20th out of 24 (this is bad)

'07 - 12th out of 25 (this is average)

'08 - 23rd out of 28 (this is bad)

 

So basically the defensive stats say Hermida was bad in '06 and '08 and was between good and average in '07. As a whole the stats say he's bad defensively.

He's got the arm of a rf and the range of a lf. He is best served in lf, but he can be passable in rf, and he isn't 'teh worst outfielder ever!'

 

Also, +/- has him at average or better for his career.

Also, +/- has him at average or better for his career.

 

They have him as bad for 2 out of 3 years so what you said, if true, is very strange and leads me to question the validity of the stat.

What do you mean they 'have him as bad'?

What do you mean they 'have him as bad'?

/quote]

'06 - 24th out of 35 (this is bad)

'08 - 25th out of 35 (this is bad)

 

Isn't being ranked 24th and 25th out of 35 bad?

For the period from 2006-2008 the Fielding Bible ranked him 21st out of 35.

 

I think this is "bad" and this is ignoring the numbers of innings played during the 3 year period. If the numbers of innings are taken into account I'm sure he would be lower than 21st.

hermida is a below average outfielder . what is most frustrating is he sems to have a depth perception problem . He will get a ball , get a glove in a position to make the catch , than we will miss judge where the ball is an miss the ball completely or have it hit off his glove .

Ah, I understand.

 

I'm not really that well versed on the various defensive stats beyond a very basic understanding. Perhaps +/- isn't context sensitive but 'runs saved' is? In that case, he could be poor at holding baserunners and it might not show up in +\-, or something? That sounds right. Or he is especially bad at stopping extra base hits? I'm not entirely sure how that would show up. You'd have to ask someone with a bit more knowledge.

 

I don't think he's a good outfielder. I think he has the ability to be good, but he's not well utilized in rf. We have never really put hermida in a place where he can succeed for more than a few weeks at a time. The guy is better in lf? Let's move him back to right! He's a pretty protypical top of the order hitter right now (high obp, low slg)? Put him 5th!

For the period from 2006-2008 the Fielding Bible ranked him 21st out of 35.

 

I think this is "bad" and this is ignoring the numbers of innings played during the 3 year period. If the numbers of innings are taken into account I'm sure he would be lower than 21st.

 

 

He would be no 'worse' if he ranked 30 out of 50 or 42nd out of 70, or something.

I found this excerpt from the Fielding Bible. I think it's worth it to look through it.

 

http://sabernomics.com/sabernomics/FieldingBibleVII_Excerpt.pdf

For the period from 2006-2008 the Fielding Bible ranked him 21st out of 35.

 

I think this is "bad" and this is ignoring the numbers of innings played during the 3 year period. If the numbers of innings are taken into account I'm sure he would be lower than 21st.

 

 

He would be no 'worse' if he ranked 30 out of 50 or 42nd out of 70, or something.

I'll say 21st out of 35 is below average.. below average drifting towards bad. I meant to edit my previous post but I can't edit anymore.

For the period from 2006-2008 the Fielding Bible ranked him 21st out of 35.

 

I think this is "bad" and this is ignoring the numbers of innings played during the 3 year period. If the numbers of innings are taken into account I'm sure he would be lower than 21st.

 

 

He would be no 'worse' if he ranked 30 out of 50 or 42nd out of 70, or something.

I'll say 21st out of 35 is below average.. below average drifting towards bad. I meant to edit my previous post but I can't edit anymore.

 

Yes, he's been pretty bad. He's not the worst fielder in the world either, as his haters would like you to believe. He's just very ugly in the field, which clouds peoples judgement. He makes most of the plays he should.

 

I was responding there to your implication that he is being made to look better because there are players who don't qualify or something. That's absurd.

He has played more RF innigs than the majority of the the 35 players he's being compared to in the three year period from 2006-2008 so I think if innings were taken into account and "runs saved" were converted into a rate stat as opposed to a counting stat I think he would be lower than 21st. I don't understand why this is hard to understand.

He has played more RF innigs than the majority of the the 35 players he's being compared to in the three year period from 2006-2008 so I think if innings were taken into account and "runs saved" were converted into a rate stat as opposed to a counting stat I think he would be lower than 21st. I don't understand why this is hard to understand.

 

 

I'm not going to lie, that seems hard to believe with all of the time he's missed. And if that is true, isn't it also possible there are guys who would rate even worse than him if it was a rate? There could be guys who didn't make the list with the same or similar innings. He's below average, I'm not disagreeing with you. He's better than some right fielders, but he's worse than more. He's still not nearly as bad as many make him out to be.

 

Most of the people who say he is good or average do so in response to idiots saying 'he's teh worst fielder ever!' so maybe people overstate his averageness, but they are being less disingenuous than those reactionaries saying he's he worst, and a least there is some backing to it. You might be the first person to ever use a stat (fp% doesn't count.) against him. A landmark day!

 

And you haven't done a very good job of explaining what you meant there.

This is not a debatable issue he is awful defensively, take your marlins bias out of the debate

On a number of levels, whether offense or in this case defense, 2007 numbers have to be looked at in the context of his limited play that season. He missed all of April and part of May, and offensively didn't start to hit until the first or second week of July where his average had fallen below .220 and he began a torrid eleven week run. I would question any numbers that might be calculated on plate appearances or defensive chances, etc., because the less the number of opportunities the greater value (good or bad) each one has.

This is not a debatable issue he is awful defensively, take your marlins bias out of the debate

 

 

Yawn.

He can't catch the ball!!! At least not on a level you'd like to see in MLB. Consistently. And often, when he does catch the ball, it's ugly. He does seem to have a depth perception problem. Maybe he needs new contact lenses. Or maybe he has some ADD type illness.

He's not the absolute worst that I've ever seen. I've seen a few even worse then him......but he stinks.

.

Let's also not forget his other miscues in RF.

His continued propensity to lope after balls like he's playing catch with his nephew.

The times when he misses the cut-off or throws the ball to the wrong infielder.

Easily a below average fielder. How many playable balls have you witnessed bounce off his glove that "MOST" major leaguers catch? Many. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see his defense is not good.

Hermida's biggest problem, and Nny had posted an article detailing as much somewhere, is that Hermida's biggest weakness is that he gives up a lot of XBHs. This is HIGHLY negated by playing in LF, where, because Fredi deems Coghlan to be a better option there (than say, IF... the kid's natural position) , Hermida can't play/learn the position.

 

But, when it comes to getting to balls, in his career, he's ranked an average of 16th overall in RF. That being said, he's got a plus arm, and below average RF range, making him an ideal LFer, but that 'experiment' got nixed.

 

This year was SUPPOSED to be predicated on Broncobob's favorite line ever "Pitching, Speed and Defense" and, we only have one really fast guy in the lineup (and he really shouldn't even be in it) and 2 (3 if you count Hermida, which is a technicality) playing out of position... yay logic!

Hermida's biggest problem, and Nny had posted an article detailing as much somewhere, is that Hermida's biggest weakness is that he gives up a lot of XBHs. This is HIGHLY negated by playing in LF, where, because Fredi deems Coghlan to be a better option there (than say, IF... the kid's natural position) , Hermida can't play/learn the position.

 

But, when it comes to getting to balls, in his career, he's ranked an average of 16th overall in RF. That being said, he's got a plus arm, and below average RF range, making him an ideal LFer, but that 'experiment' got nixed.

 

I don't know what Nny wrote but I think he struggles going back on balls and coming in on balls. I guess in theory playing LF in Landshark stadium should negate some of his issues because he would have less ground to cover going back on balls but his UZR/150 in LF was horrific. It was almost as bad as Dunn's and worse than Coghlan's and Coghlan has never played the OF.

for both hermida and coghlan the sample size in lf has to be way too small to really matter much.

An interesting fantasy quote from ESPN about Mr. Hermida (not surprised either):

 

Spin: Unfortunately, the solo shot was his first extra-base hit in June. Hermida's .386 SLG and .125 ISO are simply not what you want to see from a corner outfielder.

This is not a debatable issue he is awful defensively, take your marlins bias out of the debate

 

 

 

How is it bias when people are throwing out statistics to support their opinion?

Thanks for contributing what easily was the worst post on this interesting thread.

I'll say 21st out of 35 is below average.. below average drifting towards bad. I meant to edit my previous post but I can't edit anymore.

 

 

Both UZR and plus/minus are based off that 0 = dead average.

 

You can say good/bad based off qualified innings/starter/whatever, but based off every RFer, you go by 0 = average.