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Keeping Pudge tops in Marlins? priorities

By MIKE BERARDINO

Sun-Sentinel

Posted November 9 2003

 

The ticker tape has been recycled. The stench of stale champagne has lifted. The afterglow of last month's World Series victory and the subsequent parades has begun to cool.

 

Now it's time for the Marlins front office to get down to some mind-bending, wallet-stretching business.

 

With baseball's annual general managers' meetings set to begin Monday in Phoenix, the Marlins braintrust had yet to receive a 2004 payroll target from owner Jeffrey Loria. That all-important figure, likely to fall somewhere around $60 million, will enable club officials to proceed intelligently through the weeklong swap shop with rival clubs and player agents.

 

With 10 free agents and 15 arbitration-eligible players, keeping the current roster intact could cost close to $90 million.

 

Upon arriving in Phoenix, Marlins General Manager Admin Beinfest will meet with the rest of the five-man front-office contingent in a condensed version of the organizational meetings they never got around to having this year. Top lieutenants Michael Hill, Jim Fleming, Dan Jennings and Orrin Freeman will join Beinfest at the Arizona Biltmore Hotel.

 

"What we need to do is sit down ourselves and spend some time ? and look at our own roster," Beinfest said. "This year we're doing a little bit of catch up. We'll talk more internally and obviously speak to Jeffrey about payroll."

 

The first order of business will be establishing some sense of the team's chances of retaining free agent catcher Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez. He is clearly their top priority, according to baseball sources that have talked with the Marlins in recent days, especially with heir apparent Ramon Castro facing a trial on rape charges.

 

"When we get the payroll from Jeffrey, we'll look at our allocation for all of these guys, including Pudge," Beinfest said. "We have a lot of things to work on. The quicker we can cross things off, the better."

 

Bringing back free agent second baseman Luis Castillo ranks second on the list, followed by hammering out a multiyear deal with third baseman Mike Lowell, who could see his salary climb above $8 million through arbitration. The Marlins plan to meet this week with the Brooklyn-based Levinson Brothers, who represent both Castillo and Lowell, to gauge those matters.

 

Sources said the Marlins were preparing a three-year offer for Castillo, who is expected to be a serious target of the New York Yankees, New York Mets, Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Dodgers, St. Louis Cardinals and possibly the Chicago White Sox.

 

Less likely to return, depending on the payroll level, are first baseman Derrek Lee, right fielder Juan Encarnacion and deposed closer Braden Looper. The Marlins will listen closely to trade offers for all three arbitration-eligible players this week.

 

Arizona, San Diego, Boston, Atlanta and the Chicago Cubs could have interest in Lee, who enjoyed his first 30-homer season and won his first Gold Glove this year. The Cubs would first have to resolve a logjam at the position, where they already have Eric Karros, Randall Simon and Hee Seop Choi.

 

Looper figures to draw interest from the Cardinals, his original team, and Seattle, where his uncle, Mariners farm director Benny Looper, was a recent finalist for the team's GM position.

 

If the cost of retaining Lowell long-term is deemed too steep, the Marlins could deal him as well. The Orioles, Mets and Braves could be among the interested suitors, although the Mets would have to feel comfortable moving rookie standout Ty Wigginton back to second base.

 

The Yankees, Lowell's original organization, apparently intend to stick with midseason acquisition Aaron Boone, despite a miserable World Series. The Los Angeles Dodgers had strong interest this summer, but they are in limbo until their sale to Boston developer Frank McCourt goes before major league owners for approval later this month.

 

Because the Marlins agreed not to offer Rodriguez salary arbitration by the Dec. 7 deadline, they essentially face a ticking clock in their bid to re-sign the team leader and National League playoff MVP.

 

Scott Boras, the catcher's hard-line agent, has been quoted recently mocking the notion of a "hometown discount" that might enable the Marlins to keep Rodriguez close to his Miami Beach home. Having just completed a heavily deferred, one-year, $10 million deal, Rodriguez could seek a five-year deal in the $50 million range.

 

The Marlins, sources said, could start out with a two-year offer for the catcher, who turns 32 at the end of this month. If they can shorten the term of the deal, the Marlins could be willing to pay as much as $11 million a year, assuming heavy deferrals again.

 

"In my mind, Pudge is looking for three [years] for $35 million or $36 million, something like that," said one major-league executive who is closely monitoring the Rodriguez derby. "The years would bother me more than the money."

 

Last winter the best offer for Rodriguez came from the Baltimore Orioles: three years, $21 million.

 

The Orioles are likely to be among the most serious bidders again, especially now that owner Peter Angelos has expressed a willingness to open his checkbook after six straight fourth-place finishes. However, the Orioles also have their eye on even bigger free-agent prizes, Montreal Expos outfielder Vladimir Guerrero and Atlanta Braves outfielder Gary Sheffield foremost among them.

 

The Orioles are among a handful of teams that have indicated they are willing to substantially increase their payroll. The Yankees, Mets, Padres, Phillies and Angels round out that short list.

 

After Baltimore and the Marlins, the market for Rodriguez could again drop off noticeably. The Padres were thought to be among the potential bidders, but sources said they might prefer Houston free agent Brad Ausmus or a much-rumored trade for Pittsburgh's Jason Kendall, provided the Pirates pick up enough of his remaining salary.

 

The Cubs made goo-goo eyes at Rodriguez a year ago, but a source with knowledge of the Cubs' plans said he's not on their radar this winter. Nor is Castillo.

 

The Mets could be interested, with their stated plans to improve their defense up the middle, but is incumbent catcher Mike Piazza ready to make the full-time move to third? He is closing in on the career record for home runs by a catcher.

 

"I find that hard to believe until Piazza fully accepts first," said one big-league official of the Pudge-to-Shea possibility.

 

New White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, the former Marlins' third-base coach, has already let it be known he would like to bring Rodriguez to Chicago.

 

"I want him on my team," Guillen said. "A lot of people do."

 

However, the White Sox face payroll restrictions of their own, with a likely target of $55 million.

 

Further complicating matters is the presence of Braves catcher Javy Lopez on the free-agent market. Lopez is coming off a season in which his offensive numbers (43 homers, 109 RBI, .328 batting average) dwarfed those of Rodriguez.

 

After a slow start, Rodriguez rallied to hit .297 with 16 homers and 85 RBI. Still, one rival executive had some sobering advice for Boras when it comes to Rodriguez.

 

"He'd better make a deal with the Marlins," the executive said. "He needs them, and they need him."

 

Mike Berardino can be reached at mberardino@sun-sentinel.com. Staff writer Juan C. Rodriguez contributed to this story.

Still, one rival executive had some sobering advice for Boras when it comes to Rodriguez.

 

"He'd better make a deal with the Marlins," the executive said. "He needs them, and they need him."

 

well, i'd definitely have to agree with HALF of that quote.

 

but man, javy looks good right now.

Hmmmm......

I liked that article, shows that the marlins want to keep all three of our star players.

I thought the most interesting part of the article was that after Baltimore and Florida, the market for Rodriguez drops off significantly. That could play into our favor, definitley.

after Baltimore and Florida, the market for Rodriguez drops off significantly. That could play into our favor, definitley.

Except for the fact that Baltimore has about $40 Million to spend this off-season.

I dont like Lowell being #3 on the list there. He should be #2 after Pudge, and only because we have the intent of signing both. Castillo is an excellent hitter, but his speed is not what it used to be. Anything over 4.5MM is too much I think, but that is my opinion. Lowell we should keep around because he and Cabrera could be the heart of this offense for years to come. Lowell could net some sexy prospects, but the PR backlash would be too much. You have to sign him, and the market may let you slide without Pudge - if he demands too much money. Besides, I would be willing to let Pudge go if we took that same money and got Vlad with it. Then traded Encarnacion...

after Baltimore and Florida, the market for Rodriguez drops off significantly. That could play into our favor, definitley.

Except for the fact that Baltimore has about $40 Million to spend this off-season. See the Peter Gammons thread

Byebye Castillo, byebye Pudge. Pudge thinks he's going to make more or similar to the 10 million he got from the Marlins. Ain't gonna happen unless the Yanks ship out Posada. If Pudge was a catcher, without the HOF track record, those 16 hrs and .297 avg of his with 80 something RBI wouldn't be worth close to 7-8 million. At most 5 million. How old is he again?

 

Oh yea, Gregg Myers, catcher for Toronto just signed a $900 K contract (he was a FA) and he hit 15 hrs and .307.

 

Pudge is getting old ( hate to break it to all of you) and I'd rather give that 7-8 mill to somebody who is not a catcher because even though Pudge was the top 3 hitters in the NL in RISP, he only got 80 something RBI, because he's a catcher and can't get enough AB's for more RBI. His RISP avg is overated because he can't get in the lineup as often as another regular for more RBI opptys. It's good for a catcher, but still he won't go over 100 RBI. He's not worth that much.

Oh yea, Gregg Myers, catcher for Toronto just signed a $900 K contract (he was a FA) and he hit 15 hrs and .307.

 

Pudge is getting old ( hate to break it to all of you) and I'd rather give that 7-8 mill to somebody who is not a catcher because even though Pudge was the top 3 hitters in the NL in RISP, he only got 80 something RBI, because he's a catcher and can't get enough AB's for more RBI.

you're preachin to the choir...

 

well atleast my choir lol

Offense is for sure not everything

So you think that Lowell is More valuable than Castillo?? I do like Lowell, i think he is a perfect example of how the human will can achieve many things, but we can have cabs at 3rd, and Luis is INVALUABLE as 2nd baseman. The team revolves around defense, and you cant teach the chemistry Agon and Luis have. In my opinion, Luis Does deserve 6 or 7 mil a year cause he has earned it. As for Lowell, he deserves 4-5 mil next year, and i think he will improve next year. Also Luis had an incredible amount of infield hits, proving that he still had speed. He hasnt concentrated much on stealing because there really is no need to since Pierre is already providing them.

 

And besides, Beinfest and Co. know more than us, thats why they have luis as #2 priority and not Lowell. If it wasnt for their trades for Conine, Urbina, and the rest (which many of you criticized as THE WORST trades in baseball history) we probably wouldnt have made the playoffs.

So you think that Lowell is More valuable than Castillo?? I do like Lowell, i think he is a perfect example of how the human will can achieve many things, but we can have cabs at 3rd, and Luis is INVALUABLE as 2nd baseman. The team revolves around defense, and you cant teach the chemistry Agon and Luis have. In my opinion, Luis Does deserve 6 or 7 mil a year cause he has earned it. As for Lowell, he deserves 4-5 mil next year, and i think he will improve next year. Also Luis had an incredible amount of infield hits, proving that he still had speed. He hasnt concentrated much on stealing because there really is no need to since Pierre is already providing them.

 

And besides, Beinfest and Co. know more than us, thats why they have luis as #2 priority and not Lowell. If it wasnt for their trades for Conine, Urbina, and the rest (which many of you criticized as THE WORST trades in baseball history) we probably wouldnt have made the playoffs.

First off, what the hell are you talking about? I think most of us saw the trades for Urbina/Conine for what they were - building towards a playoff push. Some may have thought we sent away too much talent, but most of those voices started in the media - which knows next to nothing about our franchise. And some of the voices here that were against those trades probably were shaped by those opinions. But I fail to see what that has to do with this thread, let alone my post.

 

Secondly, if you think Castillo is worth 7-8 mill a year, good for you. But you are out of your mind. Sure, he has a gold glove, but his steals were down. He was caught a lot. He did hit over .300. But a guy like Eric Yound had 15HR, stole 28, batted .251 and had a .727 OPS for $2MM. He is 36, and does not have as slick a glove as Castillo, but he is anywhere from $3-4MM cheaper. You know what you can do with that extra cash? Can anyone say make AJ Burnett happy?!

 

The point is, Pudge, like Castillo, is not worth that much money for what they are going to produce. You can get a respectable replacement for a fraction of the cost. And you even can maintain payroll flexibility, something the Marlins are going to do until they have a new stadium. The Marlins are the kings of this flexibility thing, and thus, have kind of started ANOTHER trend taking off in baseball now. So dont expect Pudge or Castillo to be making big money with the Marlins.

 

Oh...and let me know when you find a 3B that hits 30+ homeruns and drives in 100RBI's in a season. I will give you the list: Mike Lowell. That is IT. Chavez hit 29, 101RBI. Rolen, 28/104. Ramirez, 27/106 (thanks Wrigley Field!). And remember, all those guys had about 100 more ABs than Lowell. So, do you still think we should screw around with Lowell? Why replace him with Cabs when we can AFFORD to have both bats in the lineup?! Get your mind straight...

totally agree, lowell should be in front of castillo on the priority list and you can even argue that he should be in front of pudge. he was the best 3rd baseman last year, his stats would have been even better if he didnt miss a whole month. all i know its goin to be an intersting offseason.

Thanks for doing the work for me jonny.

That is what I am here for. And yes, DaGreatOne, I think Lowell should be in front of Castillo and Pudge. But I would also put Burnett ahead of them too, and pretty much the whole starting rotation. Should look like this:

 

1) Lowell

2) Burnett

3) Beckett/Penny/Pavano/Willis

4) Castillo

5) Pudge

 

Why I rank Pudge low is because either he will take the money left or not. Also, Castro's presence, should he be found innocent, makes Pudge's less necessary. Besides, I think you can make a good case to spend the money on Pudge in other areas, like Vlad or even sign the Korean Lee and a top lefty reliever AND save money. Castillo too would get tears from me. I love the guy, but if priced out of our range, we could use that money elsewhere. In order for this team to win, we need to lock up our starters. That can get done at this stage as well as signing Lowell. Like I said, we can afford to have Cabs and Lowell in the lineup together.

Also, Gammons says the same thing Berardino says in his article:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1657642

 

Now that Luis Castillo's agent situation has been resolved by the Players Association, he becomes an early darling in the market because of the large number of teams looking for second basemen. One industry source expects that the Marlins will make Pudge Rodriguez their first priority, Castillo their second, then make an offer to Mike Lowell, and if he doesn't accept, trade him and move Miguel Cabrera to third base.

 

So I wonder, who is this 'industry source' and who is preceeding who here in info. Regardless, I have total confidence in the Marlins FO.

I'd say:

 

1. Lowell

2. Pudge

3. Castillo

 

As much as I like Castillo, I don't see us paying him the money he will demand on the open market.

With the fact that Castillo's SBs are down dramatically and his hip is still bothering him, how soon before Castillo becomes damaged goods...EXPENSIVE damaged goods....I really like Castillo in theline-up but I get this gut feeling he will be a year or 2 away from losing his speed due to injuries, and once that is gone, he loses his value...

 

 

Lowell should be TOP priority

 

and I agree if Pudge leaves, make an attempt at Guerrero...

 

or even see if that Korean player Lee is worth getting...I wonder if signing him could create more fanbase, an international fanbase, and could generate more revenue thru merchandising...Im sure Japanese fans bought a lot of Ichiro and Matsui merchandise when they came over...

We need to Keep pudge and Uggy, Fox.

We need to Keep pudge and Uggy, Fox.

You're right, Andy Fox SHOULD be a priority

Priorities for Marlins

1) Lowell

2) Ballpark

3) Pudge

4) Castillo

5) Bullpen Situation

You guys make it seem that getting a 2nd baseman as Castillo is easy. Why cant you see that if Luis is gone our defense will suffer alot. Dont you understand that in order the game you need to have these 3 things in order : 1. pitching 2. Defense 3. Offense. The only reason Lowell had so many RBIs this season was the fact that you had Pierre, Castillo, and Pudge in the Lineup. And most of the time Lowell would leave a crapload of men on base.

 

Castillo has been a valuable asset to our defense and offense, and there is no other second baseman with the range and speed that he has. His speed has suffered due to the fact that THERE WAS NO NEED FOR IT. If he had the role of leadoff hitter and pierre wasnt on the team he wouldve had 50+ steals, regardless of the hip injury.

 

Without the 3 men in front of Lowell, he wouldve had at least 20 less RBIs. Im happy that he has become a better hitter and that he has connected for so many Homeruns and in my opinion he is the best 3rd baseman right now, But we already have Cabrera, and the most valuable part of OUR team (notice that not all teams rely on speed and defense) is the speed, dependable bat, and defense that Castillo offers.

 

There's no easy replacements for Castillo, and thats what pisses me off about many of you who see Castillo as a luxury and think that he is not "important". Half the Marlins fans dont even know he had a 35 game hitting streak last season which made him the 2nd baseman and Latin player with such a long streak

Just because Castillo is low on my list doesn't mean he isn't important or appreciated. The thing is that Lowell, the ballpark, and Pudge are ore important to the Marlins at this point in time than Castillo.

Just because Castillo is low on my list doesn't mean he isn't important or appreciated. The thing is that Lowell, the ballpark, and Pudge are ore important to the Marlins at this point in time than Castillo.

I disagree.

 

I still think it is more important (performance wise, not PR wise) to keep Castillo over Pudge.