Hey guys, I'm kinda new at this. This is my first post. YAY! haha. But what I would like to talk about is our loss yesterday. I hate to say it, but I'll give it to the Nationals because they banged around with our ace. We had no one better to pitch so they pretty much deserve it. However I do not think that we should be leaving JJ in in the 8th inning, he's just not used to that many innings. All in all a horrible game for the fish. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :thumbdown

Well, first of all, welcome to the site! I wanna say that Josh Johnson pitched a great game yesterday, but as a manager or pitching coach, you NEED to know when your pitcher is done. It was time to hand the ball to the bullpen, because JJ was tired, but they were to stupid to realize that. Then the bullpen blew it, and JJ took the heat, which isn't fair, but its the rules. This is bad because we wanna win when our ace is on the hill, and when we lose to the WORST team in baseball when trying to take the wild card, you know that's not good.

People here and elsewhere thought the Marlins were wasting time and resources going after relief help. Maybe, as it turns out, they (the FO) knew more about what was going on than others out of the loop did.

 

What we didn't have last night was one guy who could dominate out of the pen when it was needed whether it was one, two or three outs. By now teams should have started posted guys on the secret waiver wire and you have to think the Fish, who caught a break last night with the Phillies losing, are going to be in search of that arm.

 

All this blame towards Fredi is at least for me unwarranted, or partially so, no one is perfect. I just think Meyer and Kiki and other guys have hit a wall and need time to get right again. Every player goes through it at some point in the season. As much as my heart says get another bat in the lineup I can't ignore how worn out some of these guys appear. I'm not going to take a thing away from them because the first half they kept this team in contention but it times to bring in reinforcements, and quickly. And that comment is not because of last night's game, it's a looking forward one.

If we get a relief arm and not a 5th starter, we be dumb.

Exactly. Our ace was tired. I figure if we put in Leo in the 8th and Matt in the 9th, we have secured a win. However, it seems like Fredi was more focused on a personal goal (JJ going for the shutout) then thinking about the team and what we need to do to get to the playoffs and play October baseball.

If we get a relief arm and not a 5th starter, we be dumb.

 

 

That's because you know better than Beinfest and company I'm guessing. And I don't think Admin Beinfest and company are dumb.

 

We have a number of needs and yes you're 100% right a starter is one of them but that's one guy who conceivably helps the team once every five days or so (and frankly where we are in the standing means that quality starting pitcher has to be passed over by a number of teams before we can claim him) as opposed to a good relief arm who can work an inning or less three of those five days protecting leads or keeping the Fish in games. Can it be done, conceivably yes but I suspect the reliever may be more easily acquired. I'm more than willing to have Beinfest prove me wrong.

You are all so right. And it doesn't count as a break for us cause the Phillies lost, it was a break for the Phillies who are still 5.0 games ahead of us in the standings. We need to win these games against the nationals, this is a easy team to beat, and the road is going to get tougher after this series!

You say it as if we weren't trying to get any starting pitching at the deadline.

 

I'm more confident that meyer, kiko, Leo, lindstrom, pinto, sanches, and the rest of them can continue their fine work than that west, miller or anibal can do a reasonable impersonation of a major league starting pitcher for any length of time right now. Our bullpen is absolutely less of a concern than our rotation, especially since RVH is anything but garaunteed to be good either.

 

We could also concievably build RP depth from within.

 

And Admin beinfest on a number of occasions said he was pleased with what bonifacio was doing this season and didn't make an obvious move to improve the team until literally the last possible second, so who knows what's going on up there.

Exactly, we didn't catch a break. The Phillies did. We needed to win that game. I'm sorry I am furious with Fredi now for not taking JJ out.

For not taking out JJ when exactly? At the start of the 8th? JJ was only at 80-something pitches at that point I believe. That's not too many for him. Plus I don't know if you were watching the game but he had retired 20 batters in a row.

 

I know you're used to the setup guy coming in to pitch the 8th, etc, etc... but if your starter is cruising & pitch count is under control is asinine to take him out. Because he's pitching well and you can't be sure how your reliever will do.

 

After 20 straight outs, would you pull him suddenly after 2 singles? You probably get the pen warming, which they did. He gave up another single and then the double to Belliard (which was the real blow and an awful pitch). Could you have gotten a reliever in to face Belliard? Maybe. But anyway, they handed it to the pen, they just couldn't bail him out. It happens. Meyer might be our best reliever and Adam Dunn won. Adam Dunn's good.

 

It was a painful loss but shows that even when you're cruising along, major league hitters can hurt you if you have even a short lapse in command. Also our position players produced 3 runs against the worst team in baseball, they can do better.

For not taking out JJ when exactly? At the start of the 8th? JJ was only at 80-something pitches at that point I believe. That's not too many for him. Plus I don't know if you were watching the game but he had retired 20 batters in a row.

 

Would you pull him suddenly when he gave up 2 hits? No. I'd get the bullpen warming, which they did. He gave up 2 more and they handed it to the pen, they just couldn't bail him out. It happens. Meyer might be our best reliever and Adam Dunn won. Adam Dunn's good.

 

It was a painful loss but shows that even when you're cruising along, major league hitters can hurt you if you have even a short lapse in command.

 

 

I know, but that's why we traded Mike Jacobs. We got Leo Nunez, who is our 8th inning guy. Then why didn't we pitch him in the 8th. Fredi was thinking of personal goals (JJ going for the shutout) instead of locking up a "W"

For not taking out JJ when exactly? At the start of the 8th? JJ was only at 80-something pitches at that point I believe. That's not too many for him. Plus I don't know if you were watching the game but he had retired 20 batters in a row.

 

I know you're used to the setup guy coming in to pitch the 8th, etc, etc... but if your starter is cruising & pitch count is under control is asinine to take him out. Because he's pitching well and you can't be sure how your reliever will do.

 

After 20 straight outs, would you pull him suddenly after 2 singles? You probably get the pen warming, which they did. He gave up another single and then the double to Belliard (which was the real blow and an awful pitch). Could you have gotten a reliever in to face Belliard? Maybe. But anyway, they handed it to the pen, they just couldn't bail him out. It happens. Meyer might be our best reliever and Adam Dunn won. Adam Dunn's good.

 

It was a painful loss but shows that even when you're cruising along, major league hitters can hurt you if you have even a short lapse in command. Also our position players produced 3 runs against the worst team in baseball, they can do better.

 

 

I know you're probably right I'm just really mad about that loss. If JJ wants to hit home runs. Bat him 6th. Because Jeremy has not been producing. If we need a pinch Hitter and we have already used Gload. Hit JJ. It's just that the 9 hitter should not be getting up with no one on base. We need a good 8 hitter. We need some kind of catcher because Baker is not hitting. Ronny is pretty good, but I want a good contact hitter. Do you know if we have anyone besides Brett Hayes in the minors that's a good catcher?

John baker has exactly one month of an ops below .788. He's a good hitting catcher.

John baker has exactly one month of an ops below .788. He's a good hitting catcher.

 

 

But he strikes out a lot. We need someone who will almost always put it in play. To advance the runners or get the run home from third on a ground out to 2nd. Anything.

Baker isn't too bad at all.

I just would like some more contact hitting in the 8 hole.

He has struck out a bit in some sticky situations.

But he has also come through in a lot of those situations, so you can't expect someone to produce always.

Glad to see JJ hit another homer.

Is that a homer in his last two starts?

Or was there a start in between?

Baker isn't too bad at all.

I just would like some more contact hitting in the 8 hole.

He has struck out a bit in some sticky situations.

But he has also come through in a lot of those situations, so you can't expect someone to produce always.

Glad to see JJ hit another homer.

Is that a homer in his last two starts?

Or was there a start in between?

 

 

Nope you're right. 2 straight stars with a homer for JJ.

To be fair, our Ace destroyed them for about 7 innings. He got tired and when time came to pull the plug, he was not helped. The bullpen failed because we used 3 relievers in one inning. That's what I hate about the 'specialization' crap. Sure, the stats may indicate that they're great against a certain type of hitter but that means nothing if you don't have your stuff at that given day. The more relievers you use in an inning, the higher the chances are that you're going to stumble across someone who isn't sharp - that's why you need to start 'em off with the inning and, if that's not possible, leave them in as long as you possibly can to work around things. Fredi did neither last night.

John baker has exactly one month of an ops below .788. He's a good hitting catcher.

 

 

But he strikes out a lot. We need someone who will almost always put it in play. To advance the runners or get the run home from third on a ground out to 2nd. Anything.

 

 

If you are honestly saying this, you have very short term memory. John Baker when batting 2nd was one of the best situational hitters we had, and 99% of the time hit the ball perfectly to advance the runners, hell Fredi used to hit and run with him hitting a lot. And I will easily take a .347 OBP and a .770 OPS from our catcher. Hell Ronny Paulino's .739 OPS combined with Bakers .770 OPS I believe ranks them towards the upper tier of catchers in the majors. I remember reading an article about this earlier, Marlins catchers are the LAST thing you should be worried about with the team.

 

 

Big issue at hand, WE NEED A 5TH STARTER. I mean Sean West really isn't MLB ready (surgery in 2007 I believe set him back a year). Even our 4th starter is a question mark. Rick Vandenhurk in the past has shown his pitch count continually gets way too high and can't get deep into games, lets see if he can keep that pitch count down the rest of the season and save our bullpen as he has done thus far.

 

And our bullpen is one of the top bullpens in the league, one bad pitch by one of our best relievers (Meyer) to one of the biggest power threats in the game doesn't constitute as we should worry about our bullpen, just an unfortunate event.

One thing about yesterday's loss....why not walk Adam Dunn with the score 4-4 and face Elijah Dukes?

One thing about yesterday's loss....why not walk Adam Dunn with the score 4-4 and face Elijah Dukes?

 

 

 

There wasn't really an empty base,man on 1st and 1 out, you have to pitch to him. Walking Dunn would've put the game winning run in scoring position with only 1 out.

 

Also, Fredi put in Dan Meyer specifically to face Dunn because of the lefty-lefty matchup (he uses Meyer as a LOOGY).

One thing about yesterday's loss....why not walk Adam Dunn with the score 4-4 and face Elijah Dukes?

 

 

 

Because.

Everyone knows Adam Dunn is no Paul Bako.

:banghead

One thing about yesterday's loss....why not walk Adam Dunn with the score 4-4 and face Elijah Dukes?

 

 

 

There wasn't really an empty base,man on 1st and 1 out, you have to pitch to him. Walking Dunn would've put the game winning run up to bat instead of it just being the tying run in Dunn.

 

Also, Fredi put in Dan Meyer specifically to face Dunn because of the lefty-lefty matchup (he uses Meyer as a LOOGY).

 

 

I didn't watch the game, but from the highlights.

I thought Dunn got the go ahead home run.

One thing about yesterday's loss....why not walk Adam Dunn with the score 4-4 and face Elijah Dukes?

 

 

 

There wasn't really an empty base,man on 1st and 1 out, you have to pitch to him. Walking Dunn would've put the game winning run up to bat instead of it just being the tying run in Dunn.

 

Also, Fredi put in Dan Meyer specifically to face Dunn because of the lefty-lefty matchup (he uses Meyer as a LOOGY).

 

 

I didn't watch the game, but from the highlights.

I thought Dunn got the go ahead home run.

 

my bad my bad. It was tied 4-4. Now that means you walk Dunn to put the go ahead run in scoring position with only 1 out.

One thing about yesterday's loss....why not walk Adam Dunn with the score 4-4 and face Elijah Dukes?

 

 

 

There wasn't really an empty base,man on 1st and 1 out, you have to pitch to him. Walking Dunn would've put the game winning run up to bat instead of it just being the tying run in Dunn.

 

Also, Fredi put in Dan Meyer specifically to face Dunn because of the lefty-lefty matchup (he uses Meyer as a LOOGY).

 

 

I didn't watch the game, but from the highlights.

I thought Dunn got the go ahead home run.

 

my bad my bad. It was tied 4-4. Now that means you walk Dunn to put the go ahead run in scoring position with only 1 out.

It does not matter. We can not change what already happened.

i think every manager in the majors would have kept JJ in for the 8th inning. the guy was pitching maybe his best game this season. he was on a roll retiring 20 straight batters. why would you want to replace JJ with a bullpen guy and disrupt the rhythm of not only our pitching but their hitting. the best situation for the Nations was taking out JJ.

 

the other reason why you dont take him out was his competitive nature at a high successful rate. players hate being taken out of a game. players want to hit or pitch themselves out of poor situations that they put themselves and the team into. like to redeem themselves. even though JJ was struggling giving up 3 base hits, he has a strong competitive nature that wants to retire the 4th batter and get out of the inning without giving up too many runs. pitch out of the jam so he can build confidence within himself and with his teammates. If fredi takes JJ out too early JJ would be pissed off. JJ wnats the opportunity to pitch out of the jam that he got himself into. he wants to keep competing and doing it successfully.