I know that the entire offense seems to be floundering right now, but one thing that is really dragging out entire offense down is keeping Hanley in the 3 hole. He had one big homer yesterday, but that was a single instance of producing when there are tenfold the amount of times he has failed horribly just in the last week- hitting at least 5-6 double play balls with RISP from just two games alone (this game and Saturday against the Rays). It's not just that he's not producing, he is single-handedly killing all the rallies that Coghlan and Gaby are setting up. A #3 hitter should at least have productive outs, but Hanley is doing mostly the absolute worst things he could do in hitting double play balls, weak pop-ups, or striking out. It's not just that Hanley's poor performance is bringing down the team, in the current situation he is being far from the best he can be. Based on his brief time in 2008 as well as his natural hitting style being free, productive, but not situational, I didn't believe that he would ever be successful in the 3-hole. I was pleasantly surprised last year, and he proved me wrong, but that's not happening at all right now. Here are some numbers to illustrate:

 

 

2010 Situational Stats

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Total 63 238 35 69 14 2 10 35 31 33 12 4 .290 .374 .492 .865

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

Bases Empty 62 130 5 38 5 2 5 5 11 18 0 0 .292 .357 .477 .834

Runners On 62 108 30 31 9 0 5 30 20 15 12 4 .287 .392 .509 .902

RISP 56 62 28 13 2 0 3 23 13 12 2 0 .210 .338 .387 .725

RISP w/2 Outs 33 30 10 5 2 0 1 6 3 3 0 0 .167 .242 .333 .576

Bases Loaded 10 5 4 0 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000

 

We cannot be successful with this happening, and better yet we haven't been. We're a bad team right now and part of the problem is that we really haven't gotten legitimate production from the 3 hole. The team needs a shake-up, and there is one thing I would absolutely GUARANTEE to you. If Fredi was fired like many here seem to want, the first thing a manager charged with turning this ship around would do is take what is supposedly our best offensive player and move him into a position which would be better for himself and the team. And it would also let him use his speed, which is pretty much either dormant or not important in the 3 hole. Honestly, it seems rather silly to take a guy whose speed is one of his best assets and make that irrelevant in the 3 hole. I know you won't all agree with this assessment, but doing the exact same thing that hasn't been working is not a recipe for improving.

 

EDIT: I typoed the name in the title but you guys know what I meant.

I dont know about moving him in the lineup, but he needs a serious attitude change if he wants to become a top flight superstar.

I dont know about moving him in the lineup, but he needs a serious attitude change if he wants to become a top flight superstar.

 

 

His attitude is another story, but its probably better for a guy with Hanley's attitude to be batting leadoff.

Ever since the "incident" about a month ago, you can really tell he is playing much harder. I respect that. He made a mistake but now has fixed it and has given a better effort than before. He is running out every ground ball, running hard after balls that get away, diving for everything...etc.

I know that the entire offense seems to be floundering right now, but one thing that is really dragging out entire offense down is keeping Hanley in the 3 hole. He had one big homer yesterday, but that was a single instance of producing when there are tenfold the amount of times he has failed horribly just in the last week- hitting at least 5-6 double play balls with RISP from just two games alone (this game and Saturday against the Rays). It's not just that he's not producing, he is single-handedly killing all the rallies that Coghlan and Gaby are setting up. A #3 hitter should at least have productive outs, but Hanley is doing mostly the absolute worst things he could do in hitting double play balls, weak pop-ups, or striking out. It's not just that Hanley's poor performance is bringing down the team, in the current situation he is being far from the best he can be. Based on his brief time in 2008 as well as his natural hitting style being free, productive, but not situational, I didn't believe that he would ever be successful in the 3-hole. I was pleasantly surprised last year, and he proved me wrong, but that's not happening at all right now.

 

 

He is just in a slump the last 2 games. He hit fine in St. Petersburg. You know Hanley will turn it around.

Oh yeah, he had the biggest hit of the game yesterday.

All of the 3-7 guys have been slumping in June. Cantu is the only one who has been decent.

 

I think Hanley will be fine. Remember he just missed another home run tonight.

Honestly this would be a situation where I would inquire Hanley about if I were the manager. If he's uncomfortable at the moment maybe he needs to be hitting in a less pressure situation.

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

He's at a .902 OPS with runners on. The RISP thing is fluky. It would appear to be completely unfounded to say that he's great with no one on or a man on first, but all of a sudden he sucks once a guy gets to 2nd or 3rd. It's variance, people. It sucks, and he was in a slump, but we need to collectively relax.

I said it first, therefore I am better than you.

I know that the entire offense seems to be floundering right now, but one thing that is really dragging out entire offense down is keeping Hanley in the 3 hole. He had one big homer yesterday, but that was a single instance of producing when there are tenfold the amount of times he has failed horribly just in the last week- hitting at least 5-6 double play balls with RISP from just two games alone (this game and Saturday against the Rays). It's not just that he's not producing, he is single-handedly killing all the rallies that Coghlan and Gaby are setting up. A #3 hitter should at least have productive outs, but Hanley is doing mostly the absolute worst things he could do in hitting double play balls, weak pop-ups, or striking out. It's not just that Hanley's poor performance is bringing down the team, in the current situation he is being far from the best he can be. Based on his brief time in 2008 as well as his natural hitting style being free, productive, but not situational, I didn't believe that he would ever be successful in the 3-hole. I was pleasantly surprised last year, and he proved me wrong, but that's not happening at all right now.

 

 

He is just in a slump the last 2 games. He hit fine in St. Petersburg. You know Hanley will turn it around.

Oh yeah, he had the biggest hit of the game yesterday.

 

Not at the game I was at. He hit two doubleplay balls with runners on first and third, once he narrowly beat it out and probably got a lucky call, the other they double him up and a run scored. Its this type of tendency that causes me to say this needs a change.

Didn't he do this the first time he was in the 3 hole a couple years ago?

I said it first, therefore I am better than you.

 

 

I was gonna give you props, but now I'm glad I didn't because I hate you [because you're better than me]

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

 

 

Actually, its pretty simple who you replace him with. Jorge Cantu is not the ideal 3 hitter either but he can handle it well and did a couple years ago. He really knows how to hit situationally which is why he racks up RBI. There is no doubt in my mind that if Cantu is hitting 3rd instead of Ramirez tonight, he finds a way to be productive. Cogs can slide to second, Gaby to 5th, and move Uggla cleanup.

 

Honestly, this isn't really related to Hanley's early slump at all, it's related to how Hanley is hitting now. You can chock it down to sheer luck that Hanley is hitting poorly with RISP, just like it's sheer luck that Cantu always picks up RBI, and that Chris Coghlan ever has a good BABIP. Or you can acknowledge that Hanley just isn't doing the job of a 3-hole hitter right now because he isn't even coming close to accomplishing the primary goal of a 3-hole hitter.

Didn't he do this the first time he was in the 3 hole a couple years ago?

 

 

Yep, which is one of the things I mentioned in my first post. But this team is extremely conservative minded, so doing something that amounts to a genuine lineup shake-up is just not in the cards.

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

 

 

Actually, its pretty simple who you replace him with. Jorge Cantu is not the ideal 3 hitter either but he can handle it well and did a couple years ago. He really knows how to hit situationally which is why he racks up RBI. There is no doubt in my mind that if Cantu is hitting 3rd instead of Ramirez tonight, he finds a way to be productive. Cogs can slide to second, Gaby to 5th, and move Uggla cleanup.

 

Honestly, this isn't really related to Hanley's early slump at all, it's related to how Hanley is hitting now. You can chock it down to sheer luck that Hanley is hitting poorly with RISP, just like it's sheer luck that Cantu always picks up RBI, and that Chris Coghlan ever has a good BABIP. Or you can acknowledge that Hanley just isn't doing the job of a 3-hole hitter right now because he isn't even coming close to accomplishing the primary goal of a 3-hole hitter.

 

Coghlan's BABIP is right around expectation this year, and he has good BABIP skills; that's a horrible example.

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

 

 

Actually, its pretty simple who you replace him with. Jorge Cantu is not the ideal 3 hitter either but he can handle it well and did a couple years ago. He really knows how to hit situationally which is why he racks up RBI. There is no doubt in my mind that if Cantu is hitting 3rd instead of Ramirez tonight, he finds a way to be productive. Cogs can slide to second, Gaby to 5th, and move Uggla cleanup.

 

Honestly, this isn't really related to Hanley's early slump at all, it's related to how Hanley is hitting now. You can chock it down to sheer luck that Hanley is hitting poorly with RISP, just like it's sheer luck that Cantu always picks up RBI, and that Chris Coghlan ever has a good BABIP. Or you can acknowledge that Hanley just isn't doing the job of a 3-hole hitter right now because he isn't even coming close to accomplishing the primary goal of a 3-hole hitter.

 

Hanley Ramirez is our best hitter, period. He didn't get the job done before, but that was then. You don't move him out just because he struggled.

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

 

 

Actually, its pretty simple who you replace him with. Jorge Cantu is not the ideal 3 hitter either but he can handle it well and did a couple years ago. He really knows how to hit situationally which is why he racks up RBI. There is no doubt in my mind that if Cantu is hitting 3rd instead of Ramirez tonight, he finds a way to be productive. Cogs can slide to second, Gaby to 5th, and move Uggla cleanup.

 

Honestly, this isn't really related to Hanley's early slump at all, it's related to how Hanley is hitting now. You can chock it down to sheer luck that Hanley is hitting poorly with RISP, just like it's sheer luck that Cantu always picks up RBI, and that Chris Coghlan ever has a good BABIP. Or you can acknowledge that Hanley just isn't doing the job of a 3-hole hitter right now because he isn't even coming close to accomplishing the primary goal of a 3-hole hitter.

 

Coghlan's BABIP is right around expectation this year, and he has good BABIP skills; that's a horrible example.

 

That's my point.

 

Actually, I've been doing some digging and it turns out that in every year but last year (where he was actually a beast), Hanley's hitting was dramatically worse with RISP than in normal situations. In addition, his career OPS with RISP is almost 100 points lower than with bases empty, where he has a .935 OPS! Now in fairness, his career OPS with RISP is .843, certainly a fine number but its indisputable that Hanley has been a much more dangerous hitter over his career in other situations, which is one of my points. Also, Uggla is the only other player on this roster with a significant number of career ABs who is not better, and most players are dramatically, with RISP. So Hanley is actually an abberration in being one of our only hitters not better with RISP. And this is our 3rd batter, the guy for whom this skill is most important.

 

Please do not tell me that Hanley is getting better, out of his slump etc. Hanley is out of his slump, but his RISP continues to get worse. I use as evidence the multiple double play balls with RISP in both the last series and this one. We need an offensive spark, especially with 3 all or nothing hitters 5-7, and that spark very well could be putting Ramirez in a situation where his hitting style will work better and his poor hitting with RISP won't kill innings that both Coghlan and Gaby have been setting up nicely time and time again.

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

 

 

Actually, its pretty simple who you replace him with. Jorge Cantu is not the ideal 3 hitter either but he can handle it well and did a couple years ago. He really knows how to hit situationally which is why he racks up RBI. There is no doubt in my mind that if Cantu is hitting 3rd instead of Ramirez tonight, he finds a way to be productive. Cogs can slide to second, Gaby to 5th, and move Uggla cleanup.

 

Honestly, this isn't really related to Hanley's early slump at all, it's related to how Hanley is hitting now. You can chock it down to sheer luck that Hanley is hitting poorly with RISP, just like it's sheer luck that Cantu always picks up RBI, and that Chris Coghlan ever has a good BABIP. Or you can acknowledge that Hanley just isn't doing the job of a 3-hole hitter right now because he isn't even coming close to accomplishing the primary goal of a 3-hole hitter.

 

Hanley Ramirez is our best hitter, period. He didn't get the job done before, but that was then. You don't move him out just because he struggled.

 

Being our best hitter and being our best third batter are not the same thing.

You forgot to mention who we replace him with. Why? Because you can't. Why would you move him up in the order when Gaby and Coghlan are doing fine? And, you certainley can't move him down.

 

This is just an over reaction because Hanley Ramirez was in a huge slump. He's back and he's the last player we should be worrying about.

 

 

Actually, its pretty simple who you replace him with. Jorge Cantu is not the ideal 3 hitter either but he can handle it well and did a couple years ago. He really knows how to hit situationally which is why he racks up RBI. There is no doubt in my mind that if Cantu is hitting 3rd instead of Ramirez tonight, he finds a way to be productive. Cogs can slide to second, Gaby to 5th, and move Uggla cleanup.

 

Honestly, this isn't really related to Hanley's early slump at all, it's related to how Hanley is hitting now. You can chock it down to sheer luck that Hanley is hitting poorly with RISP, just like it's sheer luck that Cantu always picks up RBI, and that Chris Coghlan ever has a good BABIP. Or you can acknowledge that Hanley just isn't doing the job of a 3-hole hitter right now because he isn't even coming close to accomplishing the primary goal of a 3-hole hitter.

 

Hanley Ramirez is our best hitter, period. He didn't get the job done before, but that was then. You don't move him out just because he struggled.

 

Being our best hitter and being our best third batter are not the same thing.

 

That made absolutely no sense to me, at all.

So how exactly did Hanley manage to hit so well with RISP last year? How did he forget this skill?

Hanley is just in a slump, he's shown this trend throughout his career with the Marlins, they just usually aren't so prolonged.

Also someone mentioned Tampa how he hit well there, but I would beg to differ on that. The only thing he contributed in Fridays run fest was a Sac Fly other than that he was 0 for.

My suggestion is not that they move Hanley in the line-up, but that they fire Jim Presley!!!!! Now that Pinto is gone he really needs to be the new whipping boy.

I think what we should do is move cody down and stanton up. Stanton should be getting the oppurtunity to get some more ab's with runners on. nothings working right now.

I would rather have. Cogs hanley cantu uggla Ross gaby Stanton paulino

Hanley Ramirez last 3 seasons.

 

Runners On: .901 OPS

RISP: .900 OPS

Scoring position, 2 outs: .929 OPS