Is it possible that Freddi was set up for his removal ?

 

We know that Loria and others had talks with Bobby V in the last off-season. So the gem may have been planted at that time.

 

Loria with his "expectations" of the playoffs, and the FO doing ZILCH to improve the team - is it possible it was all in an effort by Loria & the FO to make it easier to get Freddi out ? It would seem to make some sense.

Is it possible that Freddi was set up for his removal ?

 

We know that Loria and others had talks with Bobby V in the last off-season. So the gem may have been planted at that time.

 

Loria with his "expectations" of the playoffs, and the FO doing ZILCH to improve the team - is it possible it was all in an effort by Loria & the FO to make it easier to get Freddi out ? It would seem to make some sense.

 

 

I don't think they would sabotage a season just to get Valentine in. Team goes down hill less people attend the games less $ brought in. They had an opportunity in the postseason to make the move, but different. I think it must made it easier because Valentine was still available, the team has played very inconsistently year, and the talk about Freddi potentially going to Atlanta after this season hasn't stopped in the media. And Loria has flipped/flopped on what type of managers he wants. It appears a "yes man" wasn't what he wants. I'm wondering what happens when Valentine, if he is hired, says NO to his friend, Loria. Friendship may end quickly.

Is it possible that Freddi was set up for his removal ?

 

We know that Loria and others had talks with Bobby V in the last off-season. So the gem may have been planted at that time.

 

Loria with his "expectations" of the playoffs, and the FO doing ZILCH to improve the team - is it possible it was all in an effort by Loria & the FO to make it easier to get Freddi out ? It would seem to make some sense.

 

 

I don't think they would sabotage a season just to get Valentine in. Team goes down hill less people attend the games less $ brought in. They had an opportunity in the postseason to make the move, but different. I think it must made it easier because Valentine was still available, the team has played very inconsistently year, and the talk about Freddi potentially going to Atlanta after this season hasn't stopped in the media. And Loria has flipped/flopped on what type of managers he wants. It appears a "yes man" wasn't what he wants. I'm wondering what happens when Valentine, if he is hired, says NO to his friend, Loria. Friendship may end quickly.

 

I would hope they wouldn't but with Loria anything is possible. I am just seeing this team become the next Pittsburgh Pirates. A new stadium hasn't solved their problems, and we look to be headed in that same direction.

This is ridiculous.

Is it possible that Freddi was set up for his removal ?

 

We know that Loria and others had talks with Bobby V in the last off-season. So the gem may have been planted at that time.

 

Loria with his "expectations" of the playoffs, and the FO doing ZILCH to improve the team - is it possible it was all in an effort by Loria & the FO to make it easier to get Freddi out ? It would seem to make some sense.

 

 

I don't think they would sabotage a season just to get Valentine in. Team goes down hill less people attend the games less $ brought in. They had an opportunity in the postseason to make the move, but different. I think it must made it easier because Valentine was still available, the team has played very inconsistently year, and the talk about Freddi potentially going to Atlanta after this season hasn't stopped in the media. And Loria has flipped/flopped on what type of managers he wants. It appears a "yes man" wasn't what he wants. I'm wondering what happens when Valentine, if he is hired, says NO to his friend, Loria. Friendship may end quickly.

 

I would hope they wouldn't but with Loria anything is possible. I am just seeing this team become the next Pittsburgh Pirates. A new stadium hasn't solved their problems, and we look to be headed in that same direction.

 

I don't think Loria is that stupid; it affects the bottom line.

This is ridiculous.

 

 

Not as ridiculous as you might think. This owner and FO are quite Machievellian.

Is it possible that Freddi was set up for his removal ?

 

We know that Loria and others had talks with Bobby V in the last off-season. So the gem may have been planted at that time.

 

Loria with his "expectations" of the playoffs, and the FO doing ZILCH to improve the team - is it possible it was all in an effort by Loria & the FO to make it easier to get Freddi out ? It would seem to make some sense.

 

 

I don't think they would sabotage a season just to get Valentine in. Team goes down hill less people attend the games less $ brought in. They had an opportunity in the postseason to make the move, but different. I think it must made it easier because Valentine was still available, the team has played very inconsistently year, and the talk about Freddi potentially going to Atlanta after this season hasn't stopped in the media. And Loria has flipped/flopped on what type of managers he wants. It appears a "yes man" wasn't what he wants. I'm wondering what happens when Valentine, if he is hired, says NO to his friend, Loria. Friendship may end quickly.

 

I would hope they wouldn't but with Loria anything is possible. I am just seeing this team become the next Pittsburgh Pirates. A new stadium hasn't solved their problems, and we look to be headed in that same direction.

 

I don't think Loria is that stupid; it affects the bottom line.

 

Does it really ? I am beginning to believe the critics, that So. Fla no matter what will ever support this team. Even when we have been playing well, attendance doesn't seem to increase.

This is ridiculous.

 

 

Not as ridiculous as you might think. This owner and FO are quite Machievellian.

No, it's absolutely as ridiculous as I think, especially because Loria could have fired Fredi in the offseason, when all the rumors were around and nobody would have been surprised.

 

 

I think you need to take the tinfoil hat off.

This is ridiculous.

 

 

Not as ridiculous as you might think. This owner and FO are quite Machievellian.

 

Machievellian isn't a painting style so he may not know it. Although he would know the time period.

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

 

 

And if Loria wanted to before the season and had talked to Valentine then, it is baffling to me he would start this year with Freddi knowing there was a good chance Freddi would go to Atlanta next year. All signs seemed to point for Freddi moving on. I wonder who talked him out of it

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

 

 

Well that is the million dollar question isn't it ?

 

This whole thing just doesn't seem to be making any sense. That is why I am trying to grab at straws, anything to make sense of it.

 

Why did they fire Freddi when they did when its been obvious they didn't have anyone in place to come right in ? The timing is just screwed up and its all making the Marlins FO and Loria look even more Mickey Mouse than they already are percieved. I don't know if you relize it, most MLB fans accross the country think our team and especially owner are a joke.

 

How also does this messy situation play out this close to the new stadium being opened ? The team doesn't seem to have any distinct plan for 2012. Its not like its a big deal to them, other than it will produce more revenue (supposedly).

This is ridiculous.

 

 

Not as ridiculous as you might think. This owner and FO are quite Machievellian.

No, it's absolutely as ridiculous as I think, especially because Loria could have fired Fredi in the offseason, when all the rumors were around and nobody would have been surprised.

 

 

I think you need to take the tinfoil hat off.

 

But then what will protect us against the aliens? :|

This is ridiculous.

 

 

Not as ridiculous as you might think. This owner and FO are quite Machievellian.

No, it's absolutely as ridiculous as I think, especially because Loria could have fired Fredi in the offseason, when all the rumors were around and nobody would have been surprised.

 

 

I think you need to take the tinfoil hat off.

 

But then what will protect us against the aliens? :|

 

:notworthy

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

 

 

Well that is the million dollar question isn't it ?

 

This whole thing just doesn't seem to be making any sense. That is why I am trying to grab at straws, anything to make sense of it.

 

Why did they fire Freddi when they did when its been obvious they didn't have anyone in place to come right in ? The timing is just screwed up and its all making the Marlins FO and Loria look even more Mickey Mouse than they already are percieved. I don't know if you relize it, most MLB fans accross the country think our team and especially owner are a joke.

 

How also does this messy situation play out this close to the new stadium being opened ? The team doesn't seem to have any distinct plan for 2012. Its not like its a big deal to them, other than it will produce more revenue (supposedly).

 

Sorry, I think you are grabbing at the wrong straws. It would be interesting to know though.

Yes, It's all a giant conspiracy. Loria had to go through all that because the Marlins are so beloved and covered well by the media and he didn't wanna come off as a douche bag by simply firing him.

This is ridiculous.

 

 

+1

 

I am not a Loria fan but I am sure that he does not sabotage his own team.

I don't understand how any of this makes sense.

 

If Loria wanted Valentine, why wouldn't he just fire Fredi when he wanted Bobby? Why does sabotage need to be involved?

 

Why does Loria need the team to be tanking horribly just to fire Fredi?

The simple explanation is that Loria is competive and thinks that this team should be doing better than it is. I agree, even though the bullpen sucks.

 

Firing Fredi makes sense from that perspective, even though I don't really think it's mainly Fredi's fault.

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

 

 

Well that is the million dollar question isn't it ?

 

This whole thing just doesn't seem to be making any sense. That is why I am trying to grab at straws, anything to make sense of it.

 

Why did they fire Freddi when they did when its been obvious they didn't have anyone in place to come right in ? The timing is just screwed up and its all making the Marlins FO and Loria look even more Mickey Mouse than they already are percieved. I don't know if you relize it, most MLB fans accross the country think our team and especially owner are a joke.

 

How also does this messy situation play out this close to the new stadium being opened ? The team doesn't seem to have any distinct plan for 2012. Its not like its a big deal to them, other than it will produce more revenue (supposedly).

 

Did it ever occur to you that Loria actually wants to win? The team was 34-36 after an 87 win season. Loria might not spend much money, but the fact he's at almost every home game makes you think he cares, somewhat. You're making a big deal about this for no reason. Who cares? He got rid of Fredi Gonzalez, not Josh Johnson.

As far as I can see Fredi is a mediator type manager.

He does not spark the team but he does not let it go down.

He always delivers what the team is capable of doing.

In Atlanta he will be able to constantly lead them to 1st or 2nd place in the division but there will be hiatus in WS championships.

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

 

 

Well that is the million dollar question isn't it ?

 

This whole thing just doesn't seem to be making any sense. That is why I am trying to grab at straws, anything to make sense of it.

 

Why did they fire Freddi when they did when its been obvious they didn't have anyone in place to come right in ? The timing is just screwed up and its all making the Marlins FO and Loria look even more Mickey Mouse than they already are percieved. I don't know if you relize it, most MLB fans accross the country think our team and especially owner are a joke.

 

How also does this messy situation play out this close to the new stadium being opened ? The team doesn't seem to have any distinct plan for 2012. Its not like its a big deal to them, other than it will produce more revenue (supposedly).

 

Did it ever occur to you that Loria actually wants to win? The team was 34-36 after an 87 win season. Loria might not spend much money, but the fact he's at almost every home game makes you think he cares, somewhat. You're making a big deal about this for no reason. Who cares? He got rid of Fredi Gonzalez, not Josh Johnson.

 

Its a known fact Loria wanted Freddi out after last season. He talked to Valentine about it, and that is well known as well.

 

If Loria had fired Freddi after an 87 win season, it would have been a sh*tstorm worse than after firing Girardi. He couldn't do that, as MLB would start getting involved. They do have a stake in what goes on in every one of their franchises. Not a monetary one, but they don't wish it to be a total sh*thole (Pittsburgh is an exception I guess). So perhaps they set Freddi up in the expectations that this team would tank, and then getting rid of Freddi doesn't look so bad.

 

Not saying this is what happened, but just speculating it could have happened. Just a theory, just like the theory that Loria wants to win, we hear about it all the time, yet haven't seen proof of it for years now. :shifty

This thread is really stupid.

 

 

People also thought the Titanic was unsinkable - now that was really stupid. :thumbup

Why wouldn't they just fire him in the offseason?

 

 

Well that is the million dollar question isn't it ?

 

This whole thing just doesn't seem to be making any sense. That is why I am trying to grab at straws, anything to make sense of it.

 

Why did they fire Freddi when they did when its been obvious they didn't have anyone in place to come right in ? The timing is just screwed up and its all making the Marlins FO and Loria look even more Mickey Mouse than they already are percieved. I don't know if you relize it, most MLB fans accross the country think our team and especially owner are a joke.

 

How also does this messy situation play out this close to the new stadium being opened ? The team doesn't seem to have any distinct plan for 2012. Its not like its a big deal to them, other than it will produce more revenue (supposedly).

 

Did it ever occur to you that Loria actually wants to win? The team was 34-36 after an 87 win season. Loria might not spend much money, but the fact he's at almost every home game makes you think he cares, somewhat. You're making a big deal about this for no reason. Who cares? He got rid of Fredi Gonzalez, not Josh Johnson.

 

Its a known fact Loria wanted Freddi out after last season. He talked to Valentine about it, and that is well known as well.

 

If Loria had fired Freddi after an 87 win season, it would have been a sh*tstorm worse than after firing Girardi. He couldn't do that, as MLB would start getting involved. They do have a stake in what goes on in every one of their franchises. Not a monetary one, but they don't wish it to be a total sh*thole (Pittsburgh is an exception I guess). So perhaps they set Freddi up in the expectations that this team would tank, and then getting rid of Freddi doesn't look so bad.

 

Not saying this is what happened, but just speculating it could have happened. Just a theory, just like the theory that Loria wants to win, we hear about it all the time, yet haven't seen proof of it for years now. :shifty

 

If he really wanted Fredi out last season he would have been out. So much is the power of the owner. He showed with Girardi he don't care at all what the media says about his firings. MLB wouldn't have gotten involved with anything, owners have been firing managers for shaky reasons since the beginning of time.

For better or for worse, I think Loria is a fan of baseball and passionate about the Marlins. This means from time to time he makes brash decisions that the FO has to talk him out of (apparently firing Fredi in the off-season, for one). I don't think he is a James Bond villain holding the team hostage, but rather somewhat torn between pushing his team into the playoffs (and getting "respect") and looking at the bottom dollar and trying to make it work.

 

I can say he is a poor man's Steinbrenner, but I don't think he is widely riveled like him (and again, Steinbrenner, for better or for worse, eventually turned the Average Yankees of the 80s into the powerhouse of the 90s and today).