Hammerhead Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 He's 8 for his last 60 (.133) with 7 walks and 10 Ks and he has a 23% CS% which is below league average. I know we're paying the guy more but come on. When does Hayes get more starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 .160 BABIP over the last 60 ABs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Leads the league in starts by a catcher. Some of his struggles can probably be attributed to lack of rest. I think he's a bit better than what he's at right now, as we saw at the beginning of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erick Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Wow, I just looked at his stats and it made me more optimistic. 9.6 BB%, 20.0 K% is a huge improvement for him. Weird...I knew he was walking more this year, but didn't realize it was actually a respectable number. He just needs to start showing the power he showed last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMagnus Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I was pretty shocked that Buck played the day after that long extra innings game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. I'm not claiming they are good. Olivo is about on par with Buck this season; Torrealba is worse, but will probably pick it up. I think I would have either over Buck, mainly due to cost. All three suck for the most part, but Buck is getting paid a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Wow, I just looked at his stats and it made me more optimistic. 9.6 BB%, 20.0 K% is a huge improvement for him. Weird...I knew he was walking more this year, but didn't realize it was actually a respectable number. He just needs to start showing the power he showed last year. Buck has walked more times so far this year than he did all of last year in Toronto. To put things in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoFishGoMs628 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Wow, I just looked at his stats and it made me more optimistic. 9.6 BB%, 20.0 K% is a huge improvement for him. Weird...I knew he was walking more this year, but didn't realize it was actually a respectable number. He just needs to start showing the power he showed last year. Buck's Career #'s HR/Per Year: 12.85 BA: .241 OBP: .300 SLG: .417 Buck in 2010 (looking at it as a career best) HR: 20 BA: .281 OBP: .341 SLG: .489 Buck in 2011 (so far) HR: 5 BA: .213 OBP: .292 SLG: .363 Buck in 2011 final numbers (Projected by ZiPS updated) HR: 15 BA: .231 OBP: .299 SLG: 398 Looking at all this, Buck is on track to have a pretty average year for his terms. If he ended up with 15 HR which ZiPS is calculating that would be above his average. Batting average would be 10 points short. On base percentage will be about his average. SLG percentage would be the biggest decline at 54 points. I think Buck has been slightly underperforming and as fans we don't want to see that, but he's not going to give us much more than what we have seen, but yes I agree with Erick it would be nice to see more power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. I'm not claiming they are good. Olivo is about on par with Buck this season; Torrealba is worse, but will probably pick it up. I think I would have either over Buck, mainly due to cost. All three suck for the most part, but Buck is getting paid a lot more. Buck is making $4.5 million this year. Torrealba $3 million and Olivo about $2.5 million. Not really a large discrepancy and there is a nice talent gap between Buck, Olivo and Torrealba. And just speaking historically, if a person remembers Olivo's first stint with the Fish, I cant fathom why anyone would want to bring him back for any price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. I'm not claiming they are good. Olivo is about on par with Buck this season; Torrealba is worse, but will probably pick it up. I think I would have either over Buck, mainly due to cost. All three suck for the most part, but Buck is getting paid a lot more. Buck is making $4.5 million this year. Torrealba $3 million and Olivo about $2.5 million. Not really a large discrepancy and there is a nice talent gap between Buck, Olivo and Torrealba. And just speaking historically, if a person remembers Olivo's first stint with the Fish, I cant fathom why anyone would want to bring him back for any price. Is this a joke? You aren't going to even mention the other two years on Buck's contract? Buck: $16.5MM over 3 years Torrealba: $6.25MM over 2 years Olivo: $8.75MM over 3 years That is a huge discrepancy in money, and I disagree that there is a huge gap between Buck's talent. Your bias against Olivo is known, but talent-wise he's not much worse than Buck. It's probably about equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. I'm not claiming they are good. Olivo is about on par with Buck this season; Torrealba is worse, but will probably pick it up. I think I would have either over Buck, mainly due to cost. All three suck for the most part, but Buck is getting paid a lot more. Olivo is almost the same exact player as Buck this year, on the field. Olivo: .243 .304 .355 .659 Buck: .207 .286 .354 .639 Buck has walked a bit more as Erick pointed out but so has Olivo. Buck's at a 9.6% BB%. Olivo's at an 8.7%. I'd gladly give up that .9 BB% and a few less Ks for a guy with similar power production, arguably a better arm, and similar game calling skills who costs us half the cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hey, you pays your money, you takes your chances. They did this back in November, one day after the Uggla trade was final. They had 12 mill a year burning a hole in their pocket and they spent essentially 5.5. No way were they going to go around the Olivo block again. Buck was coming off a great year, so they might have overpaid a little, but they were determined to fix the starting catcher problem, and they did. Decisively. He's playing more than he has historically, so he'll probably soon get a day off more often. That'll give him more time to watch video of himself and fix what he's doing at the plate. He previously mentioned that he had been neglecting his hitting while he was on a crash program to help various pitchers. I like the guy. He seems to be deeply immersed in his job and the pitchers all love him. It's not like they coughed up 10 mill a year. Or 12 mill+ a year for 5 years for a big-bat guy doing worse than Buck at the plate across the board, as did Atlanta. See ball, hit ball. Now, there's a philosophy. :lol Fact is, Buck has replaced Uggla's pitiful '11 production all by himself. The time to applaud or trash the Buck deal will be after he's been around for an entire year, and the result may not even be clear at that point. Not to mention that he's likely to be here the full three years, regardless. Even if he turns out to be a bad signing after all is said and done, it's a very minor error compared to the 30 mill hosing Detroit took on Willis or the 40 mill NY took on Pavano. Other than a young club-controlled guy (which we don't have) you're gonna pay 2-3 mill for any catcher, no matter how marginal, so 5.5 is no big deal one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchoftheday Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. thank you. that's it, end of story. who would even want Olivo back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Maybe we overpaid but Buck is fine, and will be fine. I'm not the biggest fan of his contract either but he said something in the offseason that made enough sense to sell me on him. He was asked about how 2010 may have been a career year and he's never had numbers that good and what if he doesn't have those numbers again... and he something to the extent that while his numbers were never that good, he also never got the chance to play as consistently as the Blue Jays let him play. He said that he could have had those numbers or close if he didn't have to platoon with Olivo in KC the year or two before. Basically saying that his numbers were that good because of the opportunity he had... an opportunity that the Marlins are also going to give him. I'm not 100% agreeing with him, but it made enough sense to me, I'm buying it, and I dont think Buck is as big of an issue for this ballclub right now. Whle he may not repeate 2010, he should be more than fine in the long run. In a lot of ways, offensively, we're lucky to have the catcher we have. Plenty of teams would swap their backstop for Buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricWiener Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 He is also very good at running the game, I do think he has a very positive impact on our pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystikol87 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I do feel like he drops some balls, and occasionally does a poor job a framing, which might cost the pitchers some strike calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammerhead Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. thank you. that's it, end of story. who would even want Olivo back If Olivo is awful this year, what is Buck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 As was said by many at the time the move was made, we overpaid the guy because we desperately needed a catcher. Always knew this contract would suck, though. Olivo and Torrealba were both on the market still when the Marlins signed Buck and they ended up getting deals for much less. Torrealba and Olivo are both awful. thank you. that's it, end of story. who would even want Olivo back If Olivo is awful this year, what is Buck? Unlucky. Miguel Olivo has a .306 BABIP. John Buck has a .228 BABIP. One of those is normal, the other is bad luck and should regress to the mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherman shill Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I have such a mixed opinion on the guy...I really hated the contract at first as I know they overpaid, as did just about every other team out there, but the guy DOES manage the game well, or seems to anyway, and yes, the pitchers seem to have responded very well to him and that alone has likely won us a couple extra games to this point although that would be a very hard to prove stat. he seems snakebit with the balls hit into play much like Hanley is at this point so hopefully it will at least get to the major league average. as far as the rate at which he throws out runners we also have to keep in mind our pitchers are notorious for long deliveries to the plate and that certainly hampers any catchers ability to throw people out. overally he's been the best catcher we've had since Pudge and he does seem like a great team guy which we know pleases the front office to no end (see: Wes Helms). he's earned a little bit longer of a stretch before we start berating him and loathing the ground he walks on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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