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Are the baseball gods punishing the Marlins...


heat84
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For the Posey incident? Or is it just a coincidence that the Marlins fell off a cliff after that happened?

 

 

The flaws in Loria/Beinfest's way of building a team became apparent...

 

On a different note:

 

Compare the 2003 team versus this year's team...

 

2003 - Young team but they each had MORE than 2 years of MLB experience (Lowell, Castillo, D. Lee, Sea Bass, Juan P., Encarnacion)... Brought up kids Dontrelle and Cabs to mix in with experienced players

 

2011 - Young team with LESS than 2 years of experience ( Stanton, Gaby, Logan, Cogz would just be over 2 years if he wasn't injured last year)...and they are expected to carry the load... Bringing up more kids like Matt D. would only add to more inexperience at the MLB level

 

2003 - Team went out and got a big name free agent, who could still contribute in Pudge, a master of throwing out baserunners and hitting behind the runner to right field

 

2011 - Team got an expensive washed-up pitcher (Vazquez) and a mediocre catcher living off of one ASG appearance (Buck)

 

2003 - The Bench: Redmond, Banks, Andy Fox, Mordecai, Hollandsworth, Lenny Harris

 

2011 - The Bench: Boner, The professional Wes Helms, Dobbs, Hayes (underused compared to so-so Buck), Cousins.... This is a weaker bench in comparison, yet we have to play a bunch of these guys every day... total lack of depth

 

There are more comparisons I am sure... but it really brings out what everyone has been saying... lack of experienced players to help the kids and reclamation projects that don't work...

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For the Posey incident? Or is it just a coincidence that the Marlins fell off a cliff after that happened?

 

 

Did You ever think, that maybe, just maybe, After the posey freaking incident that SOMEONE told the Marlins Not to do well or else!....hmmmm

 

Does San Fran Have a Mafiia???? You what what im trying to get at....

 

:whistle

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Personally I blame Rab and his "Two months down, Fish on pace for 95 wins" thread :thumbup

Seriously though, the old saying is Every team wins fifty, every team loses fifty and its what they do with the rest, always helps me through a looong season, I doubt God has time to control a baseball teams fortunes.

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Personally I blame Rab and his "Two months down, Fish on pace for 95 wins" thread :thumbup

Seriously though, the old saying is Every team wins fifty, every team loses fifty and its what they do with the rest, always helps me through a looong season, I doubt God has time to control a baseball teams fortunes.

 

 

He would if it meant pissing me off

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2003 - Team went out and got a big name free agent, who could still contribute in Pudge, a master of throwing out baserunners and hitting behind the runner to right field

 

2011 - Team got an expensive washed-up pitcher (Vazquez) and a mediocre catcher living off of one ASG appearance (Buck)

 

Getting a catcher coming off 3 injury riddled seasons that nobody in the league wanted > Getting a pitcher coming off one bad season that was offered multiple two years contracts?

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2003 - Team went out and got a big name free agent, who could still contribute in Pudge, a master of throwing out baserunners and hitting behind the runner to right field

 

2011 - Team got an expensive washed-up pitcher (Vazquez) and a mediocre catcher living off of one ASG appearance (Buck)

 

Getting a catcher coming off 3 injury riddled seasons that nobody in the league wanted > Getting a pitcher coming off one bad season that was offered multiple two years contracts?

 

Pudge: 2001 - .308 avg 25 HRs, 2002 - .314 avg 19 HRs (they aren't among his best years of 1999 and 2000)...but not exactly hurting there with the productivity either... I doubt teams passed on him because of his skill, it was probably the $10M a year that was the sticking point for some teams

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this team has just evened out and has become what they really are. no surprise. we started off with a bang but in the end we were overachieving. all things must even out in the end

 

 

 

BS, BS, followed by more BS. With a side of bs. Marlins are still in it, just need to win more and get Hanley back and then JJ. And maybe have Loria make a ''good'' move.

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this team has just evened out and has become what they really are. no surprise. we started off with a bang but in the end we were overachieving. all things must even out in the end

 

 

 

BS, BS, followed by more BS. With a side of bs. Marlins are still in it, just need to win more and get Hanley back and then JJ. And maybe have Loria make a ''good'' move.

 

i never said the marlins weren't in it or they can't be. I'm merely saying they aren't that great of a team they started out being. We're now seeing what time is doing to this team and we can see they can't hold up for an entire season playing they way they were. I will be happy when JJ returns. But hanley hasn't proved he can even help this team when things were going good. So i won't hold my breath waiting for him to return. he needs to prove he can still help this team

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Pudge: 2001 - .308 avg 25 HRs, 2002 - .314 avg 19 HRs (they aren't among his best years of 1999 and 2000)...but not exactly hurting there with the productivity either... I doubt teams passed on him because of his skill, it was probably the $10M a year that was the sticking point for some teams

 

 

It was, 100%, based on the perception that he was no longer capable of being a full time starting catcher, and yet still wanted to be paid like a full time starting catcher. He played 103 games on average the three seasons prior.

 

To portray that move, retroactively, as some sort of slam dunk, is to play the result, just like you are doing with Vazquez. There was a lot more interest in Vazquez this offseason than there was in Pudge that year, and a few teams were willing to make an even bigger mistake than the Marlins did.

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Pudge: 2001 - .308 avg 25 HRs, 2002 - .314 avg 19 HRs (they aren't among his best years of 1999 and 2000)...but not exactly hurting there with the productivity either... I doubt teams passed on him because of his skill, it was probably the $10M a year that was the sticking point for some teams

 

 

It was, 100%, based on the perception that he was no longer capable of being a full time starting catcher, and yet still wanted to be paid like a full time starting catcher. He played 103 games on average the three seasons prior.

 

To portray that move, retroactively, as some sort of slam dunk, is to play the result, just like you are doing with Vazquez. There was a lot more interest in Vazquez this offseason than there was in Pudge that year, and a few teams were willing to make an even bigger mistake than the Marlins did.

 

The reality is that while Pudge may not have been an incredibly hot commodity, he was still one of the few guys in the league capable of providing standout offensive production along with GG defense at a defensive position. While starting pitching is always a got commodity, it's not as if Vazquez is one of just a handful of starters out there who could potentially provide it.

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Pudge: 2001 - .308 avg 25 HRs, 2002 - .314 avg 19 HRs (they aren't among his best years of 1999 and 2000)...but not exactly hurting there with the productivity either... I doubt teams passed on him because of his skill, it was probably the $10M a year that was the sticking point for some teams

 

 

It was, 100%, based on the perception that he was no longer capable of being a full time starting catcher, and yet still wanted to be paid like a full time starting catcher. He played 103 games on average the three seasons prior.

 

To portray that move, retroactively, as some sort of slam dunk, is to play the result, just like you are doing with Vazquez. There was a lot more interest in Vazquez this offseason than there was in Pudge that year, and a few teams were willing to make an even bigger mistake than the Marlins did.

 

The reality is that while Pudge may not have been an incredibly hot commodity, he was still one of the few guys in the league capable of providing standout offensive production along with GG defense at a defensive position. While starting pitching is always a got commodity, it's not as if Vazquez is one of just a handful of starters out there who could potentially provide it.

 

Vazquez was perceived to be one of the top pitchers on the market beyond Cliff Lee. He was offered a two year contract by at least two team's and was likely offered more than we gave him by a few teams. No, he was not considered to be one of the top pitchers in baseball, but the market for him, nonetheless, was stronger than the market for pudge.

 

And ive never said anything about pudge's production at the time. The concern was that he was no longer capable of staying healthy over the course of a season. He proved everyone wrong, and that's great, and it worked out well for us, but that move was just as big a question mark as Javy; remember, there weren't that many people who were against the Javy signing. Sometimes these one year veteran bounceback deals work out and sometimes they don't.

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Pudge: 2001 - .308 avg 25 HRs, 2002 - .314 avg 19 HRs (they aren't among his best years of 1999 and 2000)...but not exactly hurting there with the productivity either... I doubt teams passed on him because of his skill, it was probably the $10M a year that was the sticking point for some teams

 

 

It was, 100%, based on the perception that he was no longer capable of being a full time starting catcher, and yet still wanted to be paid like a full time starting catcher. He played 103 games on average the three seasons prior.

 

To portray that move, retroactively, as some sort of slam dunk, is to play the result, just like you are doing with Vazquez. There was a lot more interest in Vazquez this offseason than there was in Pudge that year, and a few teams were willing to make an even bigger mistake than the Marlins did.

 

The reality is that while Pudge may not have been an incredibly hot commodity, he was still one of the few guys in the league capable of providing standout offensive production along with GG defense at a defensive position. While starting pitching is always a got commodity, it's not as if Vazquez is one of just a handful of starters out there who could potentially provide it.

 

Vazquez was perceived to be one of the top pitchers on the market beyond Cliff Lee. He was offered a two year contract by at least two team's and was likely offered more than we gave him by a few teams. No, he was not considered to be one of the top pitchers in baseball, but the market for him, nonetheless, was stronger than the market for pudge.

 

And ive never said anything about pudge's production at the time. The concern was that he was no longer capable of staying healthy over the course of a season. He proved everyone wrong, and that's great, and it worked out well for us, but that move was just as big a question mark as Javy; remember, there weren't that many people who were against the Javy signing. Sometimes these one year veteran bounceback deals work out and sometimes they don't.

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Pudge: 2001 - .308 avg 25 HRs, 2002 - .314 avg 19 HRs (they aren't among his best years of 1999 and 2000)...but not exactly hurting there with the productivity either... I doubt teams passed on him because of his skill, it was probably the $10M a year that was the sticking point for some teams

 

 

It was, 100%, based on the perception that he was no longer capable of being a full time starting catcher, and yet still wanted to be paid like a full time starting catcher. He played 103 games on average the three seasons prior.

 

To portray that move, retroactively, as some sort of slam dunk, is to play the result, just like you are doing with Vazquez. There was a lot more interest in Vazquez this offseason than there was in Pudge that year, and a few teams were willing to make an even bigger mistake than the Marlins did.

 

The reality is that while Pudge may not have been an incredibly hot commodity, he was still one of the few guys in the league capable of providing standout offensive production along with GG defense at a defensive position. While starting pitching is always a got commodity, it's not as if Vazquez is one of just a handful of starters out there who could potentially provide it.

 

Vazquez was perceived to be one of the top pitchers on the market beyond Cliff Lee. He was offered a two year contract by at least two team's and was likely offered more than we gave him by a few teams. No, he was not considered to be one of the top pitchers in baseball, but the market for him, nonetheless, was stronger than the market for pudge.

 

And ive never said anything about pudge's production at the time. The concern was that he was no longer capable of staying healthy over the course of a season. He proved everyone wrong, and that's great, and it worked out well for us, but that move was just as big a question mark as Javy; remember, there weren't that many people who were against the Javy signing. Sometimes these one year veteran bounceback deals work out and sometimes they don't.

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