JJ Out for Season

[hovertical]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/4293/josh-johnson

 

Apologies if this has been posted already.

 

 

Now the question here is do the fish quietly start poking around for potential trade offers in the offseason as this is the second time he's missed most of an entire season in his still young career. He's also had other stints along the way where he wore down. Would it be an incredibly unpopular move to trade him? Yes and casual fish fans would scream bloody murder. He clearly has #1 stuff for any teams rosters but can he stay healthy or will he end up going the way of a Mark Prior?

[h2r09]

JJ is great, but he along with the rest of the marlins organization's pitchers will never be able to pitch deep into ball games and stay healthy as long as we keep coddling our pitchers. these guys are professionals, i dont care if they are young and in the minors, they need to be pushed.

 

anytime we need a spot start from any one of our prospects they are incapable of going more than 5 innings.

[Admin]

JJ is great, but he along with the rest of the marlins organization's pitchers will never be able to pitch deep into ball games and stay healthy as long as we keep coddling our pitchers. these guys are professionals, i dont care if they are young and in the minors, they need to be pushed.

 

anytime we need a spot start from any one of our prospects they are incapable of going more than 5 innings.

 

You think that it's usually expected for a prospect making a spot start to go more than 5 innings?

[gizmo]

Big surprise there...

 

I really hope he can stay healthy next season

[h2r09]

JJ is great, but he along with the rest of the marlins organization's pitchers will never be able to pitch deep into ball games and stay healthy as long as we keep coddling our pitchers. these guys are professionals, i dont care if they are young and in the minors, they need to be pushed.

 

anytime we need a spot start from any one of our prospects they are incapable of going more than 5 innings.

 

You think that it's usually expected for a prospect making a spot start to go more than 5 innings?

no, because it is not expected that the pitchers go more then 6 innings in the minors.

 

here are brad hands inning totals in his last 10 starts in the minors: 4, 7, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, 5, 6, 6.1, 5, 5.2

here are chad james' last 10: 6, 6, 6, 5, 6, 6, 5, 6, 4, 5

here are rob rasmussen, he is a little better, but still, not deep into games: 6,3,5, 6,6,6,7,7,7,6

 

As an organization we dont allow our young guys in the minors to go deep into ballgames, and as a result we see our young guys every year either not be able to go deep into ball games or be shut down at the end of the year because they dont have the arm strength to complete a full year. It is this way across many organizations, but we never allow our young pitchers to go deep, and that is why you see guys like Sean West, Volstad, Hand, and others over the years.

 

WE need to push our younger talent. Not to mention the minor league seasons are shorter, so if we dont push them there, then we are setting them up not to be able to make it through september when they are in the big leagues.

[floridafly]

Sadly, I think most of us saw this coming after that horrible June in which we fell from the 4th best record in the MLB to out of contention and then he didn't return after the All-Star break like scheduled...

 

I'll say the same thing I said last year after he was shut down last year.

 

Get well JJ and kick some ass next year!

[floridafly]

And it would be a horrible idea to trade JJ this offseason for a few reasons.

1) We would lose one of the faces of our franchise right before moving in to the new stadium in which he's already filmed commercials for. Horrible PR move and the jokes would not stop coming.

2) We signed him to a long(ish) term contract and it's relatively team friendly for a pitcher of his caliber.

3) His value is probably at an all-time low right now. Who would be willing to offer anything that would generate enough incentive to trade him after seeing the way he broke down the past 2 seasons?

 

We just stick this out and hope for the best. But that shoulder is a nagging problem :/

[h2r09]

absolutely you dont trade jj. no reason to. you dont get value back for him after injuries and when he is healthy he is dominant and an ace type that the staff needs.

[Dr Beinfest]

You don't trade him of course... you still hold onto him. But if it's the same sh*t next season, in my books, he officially 'can't stay healthy'. You still don't trade him, unless you can get a killer deal.

[Admin]

JJ is great, but he along with the rest of the marlins organization's pitchers will never be able to pitch deep into ball games and stay healthy as long as we keep coddling our pitchers. these guys are professionals, i dont care if they are young and in the minors, they need to be pushed. anytime we need a spot start from any one of our prospects they are incapable of going more than 5 innings.

You think that it's usually expected for a prospect making a spot start to go more than 5 innings? no, because it is not expected that the pitchers go more then 6 innings in the minors. here are brad hands inning totals in his last 10 starts in the minors: 4, 7, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, 5, 6, 6.1, 5, 5.2 here are chad james' last 10: 6, 6, 6, 5, 6, 6, 5, 6, 4, 5 here are rob rasmussen, he is a little better, but still, not deep into games: 6,3,5, 6,6,6,7,7,7,6 As an organization we dont allow our young guys in the minors to go deep into ballgames, and as a result we see our young guys every year either not be able to go deep into ball games or be shut down at the end of the year because they dont have the arm strength to complete a full year. It is this way across many organizations, but we never allow our young pitchers to go deep, and that is why you see guys like Sean West, Volstad, Hand, and others over the years. WE need to push our younger talent. Not to mention the minor league seasons are shorter, so if we dont push them there, then we are setting them up not to be able to make it through september when they are in the big leagues.

It's a terrible idea to over-exert young pitchers. Where are you getting this idea from that they need to be "pushed" to throw more innings?

 

Most trainers and coaches typically agree that IP should be gradually increased on yearly basis to prevent injury. I believe the typical number is something like 30 IP per year. Otherwise guys will start having all sorts of arm troubles.

[h2r09]

JJ is great, but he along with the rest of the marlins organization's pitchers will never be able to pitch deep into ball games and stay healthy as long as we keep coddling our pitchers. these guys are professionals, i dont care if they are young and in the minors, they need to be pushed. anytime we need a spot start from any one of our prospects they are incapable of going more than 5 innings.

You think that it's usually expected for a prospect making a spot start to go more than 5 innings? no, because it is not expected that the pitchers go more then 6 innings in the minors. here are brad hands inning totals in his last 10 starts in the minors: 4, 7, 4.2, 5.2, 6.2, 5, 6, 6.1, 5, 5.2 here are chad james' last 10: 6, 6, 6, 5, 6, 6, 5, 6, 4, 5 here are rob rasmussen, he is a little better, but still, not deep into games: 6,3,5, 6,6,6,7,7,7,6 As an organization we dont allow our young guys in the minors to go deep into ballgames, and as a result we see our young guys every year either not be able to go deep into ball games or be shut down at the end of the year because they dont have the arm strength to complete a full year. It is this way across many organizations, but we never allow our young pitchers to go deep, and that is why you see guys like Sean West, Volstad, Hand, and others over the years. WE need to push our younger talent. Not to mention the minor league seasons are shorter, so if we dont push them there, then we are setting them up not to be able to make it through september when they are in the big leagues.

It's a terrible idea to over-exert young pitchers. Where are you getting this idea from that they need to be "pushed" to throw more innings?

 

Most trainers and coaches typically agree that IP should be gradually increased on yearly basis to prevent injury. I believe the typical number is something like 30 IP per year. Otherwise guys will start having all sorts of arm troubles.

well then they arent being pushed enough if these guys are in a+ and aa and still going 5-6 innings per start.

[Erick]

Vacation!

[Admin]

How so?

 

Hand threw almost 150 innings last year in the minors. That's a lot overall, but still averaging less than 6 IP per start. You really don't want him throwing more than 170 IP or so this season.

[GoFishGoMs628]

Sad day, hopefully he's 100% come next year!

[Dr Beinfest]

Vacation!

 

 

When are we going golfing?

 

 

(with the Panthers)

[AnonymousAnomaly]

He went from mild shoulder soreness to out for the season. I don't know who I am more irritated with: JJ, for being as durable as a wet paper bag or the organization for misleading everyone into thinking it wasn't a serious problem.

[GoFishGoMs628]

He went from mild shoulder soreness to out for the season. I don't know who I am more irritated with: JJ, for being as durable as a wet paper bag or the organization for misleading everyone into thinking it wasn't a serious problem.

 

 

The thing is, it's not a serious problem (or?) he's not going to have surgery on his shoulder, and nothing needs to be done, rotoworld has him at 100% by spring training for next year. It just looks like one of those unfortunate deals where it takes longer than expected, perhaps only JJ knew how long his injury would put him out. I don't like the tease though, seems to go with the motto of this season though.

 

Catch our tease.

[canada-marlin24]

how surprising. as if after the first setback it wasnt already clear that it would come down to this.

 

next thing well find out is he needs shoulder surgery.

[...]

He went from mild shoulder soreness to out for the season. I don't know who I am more irritated with: JJ, for being as durable as a wet paper bag or the organization for misleading everyone into thinking it wasn't a serious problem.

 

Why does anyone assume that any medical situation is cut and dried?

 

Unfortunately, JJ tried to pitch through it. He finally admitted that his shoulder was sore and stiff and was placed on the DL with shoulder inflammation on 5-21, retroactive to 5-16.

 

Expected to rest 10 days, resume throwing and return on 6-1.

 

Shoulder remained sore during June, no progress, so on 6-29 he saw Dr. Andrews for an MRI. No structural damage, just inflammation. Got cortisone shot. Rest for two weeks and resume throwing, except it's still sore and he hasn't resumed any throwing at all to this day.

 

Sometimes injuries don't respond as expected and the prognosis changes. Nothing is automatic when it comes to the human body.

 

Except for JJ, nobody misled anyone about anything.

 

Now, it will take him most of August to get back in form if he started throwing next week. For what? Maybe 4 or 5 starts in September? With the associated greater risk of a recurrence?

 

Better to shut him down and have him at 100% for next year.

[Schnellders]

If he can't stay healthy in the future, he would at least make for a killer closer....

[AnonymousAnomaly]

He went from mild shoulder soreness to out for the season. I don't know who I am more irritated with: JJ, for being as durable as a wet paper bag or the organization for misleading everyone into thinking it wasn't a serious problem.

 

Why does anyone assume that any medical situation is cut and dried?

 

Unfortunately, JJ tried to pitch through it. He finally admitted that his shoulder was sore and stiff and was placed on the DL with shoulder inflammation on 5-21, retroactive to 5-16.

 

Expected to rest 10 days, resume throwing and return on 6-1.

 

Shoulder remained sore during June, no progress, so on 6-29 he saw Dr. Andrews for an MRI. No structural damage, just inflammation. Got cortisone shot. Rest for two weeks and resume throwing, except it's still sore and he hasn't resumed any throwing at all to this day.

 

Sometimes injuries don't respond as expected and the prognosis changes. Nothing is automatic when it comes to the human body.

 

Except for JJ, nobody misled anyone about anything.

 

Now, it will take him most of August to get back in form if he started throwing next week. For what? Maybe 4 or 5 starts in September? With the associated greater risk of a recurrence?

 

Better to shut him down and have him at 100% for next year.

 

They either misled everyone or they're incompetent. Take your pick. Again, MILD shoulder soreness to out for the season. That doesn't make sense either way you slice it.

[Lurker344]

Dude is overrated.

[hovertical]

exactly right about the "mild shoulder soreness" does not equal a season ending injury. I'd almost be willing to bet that he'll pitch next season for a few games and then, as someone suggested above, find out he needs shoulder surgery of some form and be gone another season. I have a feeling JJ is going to be one of the all time greatest teases. This is why I suggested kicking the tires on some trade offers. I'd put the chances at a trade happening at 99.9% no because that would be a PR nightmare for moving into the new park next season because the casual fan goes on name recognition a lot of times rather than looking at the big picture. I was just throwing this out there to see what some other people think about it and it looks like a good majority of you also see it from my perspective.

[Sirspud]

We're gonna have to get a new vaginal conditioning coach next year.

[...]

They either misled everyone or they're incompetent.

 

:lol

 

"But you never know with these things," Johnson said. "It's going to tell me. Just got to make sure we get it out of there, that it goes away."

 

Johnson said he has felt discomfort in the shoulder "pretty much the whole year," but was always able to work out the stiffness in his warm-up tosses. Such wasn't the case on Thursday, though, when he threw in his normal, between-starts bullpen session. After that, he decided to go to the coaching staff and let them in on the problem for the first time.

 

"I felt fine," he said. "Everything was coming out the same. Once I get loose it's loose. But it's been taking forever (recently). I just knew that it didn't feel right. it was really sore. It was actually my last bullpen where i started getting really sore. i woke up the net morning and I was like, 'Man, doesn't feel great.'"

 

Doesn't sound "mild" to me.

 

In any case, from the beginning, not even JJ had ANY idea how long it might take to recover.

 

This is like Baker (TJ surgery,) who late last season was just sure that he would be ready to go for spring training and said so on-air with Rich and Tommy. The FO was estimating maybe May or June. Now months past all predictions and he's still nowhere near ready to come back. Clearly, someone is incompetent or outright lying, right?

 

Neither case is a matter of incompetence or deception, it's simply a matter of the human body being unpredictable despite the best efforts of everyone involved.