Why are you quoting Rick Warren? He is part of the problem. He is the type of person who thinks that giving water and donuts to homosexual protesters means you don't hate them. Here is more of what he has said about homosexuals. So stop quoting a f***ing monster and pull your head out of your ass and smell the hate.

 

 

RICK WARREN: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.

STEVEN WALDMAN: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?

RICK WARREN: Oh I do.

 

 

 

Great guy.

 

R. WARREN: Well, if the Bible is the word of God, then I don’t have the right to change it. Policies come and go over the years. And so if I’m unpopular for certain beliefs, well, then I’m unpopular for certain beliefs. And to me, the Bible is very clear that sex is for a man and a woman in marriage only. [...]

 

 

It doesn't take a genius to see that this guy is retarded. He takes the bible as the word of god...pssst. A bunch of dudes wrote it. Also, since the bible is the word of god and must be followed accordingly, why is this sinner and future resident of hell wearing blending fabrics?

 

"Now let me say this really clearly: we support Proposition 8 -- and if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8. I never support a candidate, but on moral issues I come out very clear."

 

He then goes on Admin King and say the exact opposite. Lying...lying...is that a sin? I can't f***ing remember under the smell of all his bulls***.

 

I see no good in religion. Faith is more of a belief or complete trust in a person, thing, or god. Whatever you want to have faith in, you can. Faith exists without god just like morality exists without god. Its good when people can turn themselves around because of faith. That's awesome. What is not awesome is religion. Faith exists without religion the same way morality does. Its actually part of many treatments to completely let go and put all of your faith in "x." The "x" doesn't matter. God, your sister, mom, a statue of Hanley Ramirez, whatever.

 

Please attest to the good that comes from it. I want to show you that religion is not the base of the good you can attest to. Then, for every good deed you have seen your youth group do, I will show you 10 more pure evil deeds the Church has done, commanded its weak minded followers to do with threat of violence, or facilitated using god. You clearly do not know what Christianity is. Go and read the bible.

 

The quote itself is what I was getting at not so much who Rick Warren is as a person.

 

His quote basically answers "this" dilemma, if you will.

 

All you're doing is attacking him you're not really backing anything up you believe. It just seems like your bitter from Christians being hypocritical, and I get that I see it a lot. Do you not think I've been treated poorly by fellow Christians and had to challenge my own thinking because of how they acted? I got a lot of relief from his quote though, I've had debates with Christians who let their pride dictate their beliefs, basically they say "Well I'm at a farther point in my walk so you obviously aren't following Christ, because in fact I know what I believe and that I am right." but thats an issue for another day.

 

I don't really see whats wrong with what he said about the marriage aspect, anything that isn't traditional marriage is different and he's a minister so obviously we know what his beliefs are. Gay marriage shouldn't be put above anything else that isn't traditional marriage, I guess our beliefs differ in that though. What is it about what he said that bothers you?

 

Faith in God as it pertains to the Christian religion, is what I was getting at. The belief that we don't have to be a prisoner of sin in our lives. The challenge and answer of the basic question "What is the meaning of life?" What is the point of me going to college, of getting a job, of making money, just to go through life and then die? I have a hard time believing that there is no point in living life, other than to be born and then die, which is what one would be left to believe without an explanation of Christianity. Sure it's a faith thing to believe in any religions, there is a lot of religions so I mean who's to say Christians are right? Religion opens up questions that the critical thinker has to have, it's an abundance and a gain in intelligence and faith and I believe it's more appropriate than not questioning anything. I would honestly probably not be alive right now if I didn't know Christ, I mean that in itself should tell you a lot, without getting into to much detail. I have hope that I wouldn't have outside of knowing Christ, it basically puts the atheism theory to rest. The agnostic stance is indifferent and does not present itself on faith.

 

I hope this somewhat makes sense, it probably doesn't but it does for me.

Sure he did,

 

I like Chick-fil-a quite a lot, and my wife has now sworn them off since the president of the company recently came out and stated (basically) that their company is against gay marriage.

 

 

"claimed CFA was taking shots at gays which they weren't"

 

Oh, really?

I know this might offend some people the way I word this bit I guess you can say I support gay marriage but I could careless if gay marriage was legal but I'm so absolutely sick about hearing about gay marriage and hearing it dominating over more universally important topics that I wish they would just legalize it.

 

 

Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous. So much time is devoted to something that is so useless. Gay people being married or not - ultimately for better or for worse the outcome of legalizing it is something that doesn't do anything. What I mean by that is... life will go on as it did before. I dunno if you guys follow what I'm saying or not... but basically... it's a much bigger issue than it should be.

 

It's a big deal to many gay couples, like my brother and his late partner. Even though they were together for more than 15 years, they were forced to spend Mario's last days apart. Mario's family, extremely conservative Catholic's would not permit my brother to see him in the hospice.

 

It was mean, sad and heartbreaking to watch. He loved Mario with all of his heart, and these people, who had contact with Mario every couple of years at holidays legally forced Jimmy out of the room.

 

That doesn't happen if they are allowed to marry or even have a Civil Union. Both are outlawed in Florida.

 

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.

 

It's ridiculous that it still goes on. That we are fighting such a fight. That it's not obvious that gay people should just have their rights.

 

Do not be mistaken, I am very pro-gay marriage.

This whole thing started when the OP did not actually know what happened and claimed CFA was taking shots at gays which they weren't. Terrible journalism.

 

Nothing was said here against gays nor was it implied, stop being ignorant and do research if you're going to post something.

 

 

lol, wow. what?

 

apparently everyone else got the point of the original post except for you. i'll be sure to word it more carefully next time so as not to upset you.

Living in the United States gives us freedom of speech and opinion, there is nothing wrong with what he said and to add to that it's biblical. Thats all that really needs to be said. Plus he probably unknowingly gave his company one of the largest profit days ever by saying what he said.

 

 

What are you trying to say? That anything "biblical" is beyond reproach?

 

Personally I'm tired of religion and really look forward to the day when humanity can come out of its infancy and drop it all together like a bad habit.

There is no need for reproach, and yes I'm a christian. If he wasn't a christian and said what he said I would still be backing it up, you act like there is something wrong with what he said because it pertains to biblical faith.

 

The man agrees with the biblical form of marriage a man and a woman.

 

Religion will never go away, nor will people defending what they believe, it's our right in fact.

 

Like I said, beyond reproach. And I do believe religion will vanish entirely, when that will happen? who knows... sooner than later I hope.

This whole thing started when the OP did not actually know what happened and claimed CFA was taking shots at gays which they weren't. Terrible journalism.

 

Nothing was said here against gays nor was it implied, stop being ignorant and do research if you're going to post something.

 

 

lol, wow. what?

 

apparently everyone else got the point of the original post except for you. i'll be sure to word it more carefully next time so as not to upset you.

You posted something that didn't happen though, which is also why you put "basically" in parentheses and yes I'm offended when the truth of what happens gets twisted and is posted for truth and leads others to believe that Don Cathy made anti-gay comments.

 

Just like I would be disappointed if Squall wrongly said that Albert Pujols was coming to Miami.

Living in the United States gives us freedom of speech and opinion, there is nothing wrong with what he said and to add to that it's biblical. Thats all that really needs to be said. Plus he probably unknowingly gave his company one of the largest profit days ever by saying what he said.

 

 

What are you trying to say? That anything "biblical" is beyond reproach?

 

Personally I'm tired of religion and really look forward to the day when humanity can come out of its infancy and drop it all together like a bad habit.

There is no need for reproach, and yes I'm a christian. If he wasn't a christian and said what he said I would still be backing it up, you act like there is something wrong with what he said because it pertains to biblical faith.

 

The man agrees with the biblical form of marriage a man and a woman.

 

Religion will never go away, nor will people defending what they believe, it's our right in fact.

 

Like I said, beyond reproach. And I do believe religion will vanish entirely, when that will happen? who knows... sooner than later I hope.

 

It's called freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Anyone can believe anything they want.

 

For example I wouldn't care if you believed that traditional marriage meant a man and a man, but that won't change what I believe.

 

Obviously Christians are really not beyond reproach (see Dan Cathy and the aforementioned Rick Warren).

Belief isn't the main problem. Its activity trying to limit the rights of others because of that belief.

 

 

Well I agree with that, but in this case thats not what happened. To further explain the situation CFA donated money to the Marriage and Family Legacy Fund and Exodus International. One is a fund, one is a ministry, neither are anti-gay organizations. They simply act on their beliefs and provide relief for those who acknowledge their gay desires as a sin in accordance with the Bible. It's optional and no one is required to seek help.

 

There is no anti-gay group support in this, just ministries.

Belief isn't the main problem. Its activity trying to limit the rights of others because of that belief.

 

 

Well I agree with that, but in this case thats not what happened. To further explain the situation CFA donated money to the Marriage and Family Legacy Fund and Exodus International. One is a fund, one is a ministry, neither are anti-gay organizations. They simply act on their beliefs and provide relief for those who acknowledge their gay desires as a sin in accordance with the Bible. It's optional and no one is required to seek help.

 

There is no anti-gay group support in this, just ministries.

 

It's all sugar-coating, again. You can believe what you'd like, and that's cool. When it comes to morals and whatnot, what you believe is not necessarily right or wrong sometimes. If you don't believe two gay people should be married, that's a belief. That's fine. It's insensitive and unfair, but it's a belief - nothing more, nothing less.

 

However... if you believe the Earth is only 5,000 years old... if you believe homosexuality is some type of learned behavior or 'reversible' or can be 'treated' as though it's some illness... well... you're just wrong. There's proof for that. If you can't see that and accept that, then it's not worth having this conversation.

 

side note: nice to see the jerks who ruined the voting system get shown up, ... and Ema2R. Bigots. Cowards. At the very least there are some individuals here willing to stand up and debate.

The reason I bring that up is because those groups that are 'offering treatment' are doing something that's simply inaccurate for their own belief. You can't 'reverse' homosexuality. If I were to tell you that you could be 'cured' of your nationality, what would you say to that? We can delete all history of it ever existing, and fake wherever your new identity is from, but in the end you're still from the same place, regardless of what we do.

 

Gays do not tell Christians not to be Christians, nor do they try and heal them. Nor is there a fund set up to treat people for 'religion'. Does that not sound incredibly insulting to you, as a Christian? I am going to treat your religion. How would you like that? Sure, you might not be tempted, but what if other Christians were getting treated for religion at a fund donated by all of the other fast-food companies? What would you say?

It's all sugar-coating, again. You can believe what you'd like, and that's cool. When it comes to morals and whatnot, what you believe is not necessarily right or wrong sometimes. If you don't believe two gay people should be married, that's a belief. That's fine. It's insensitive and unfair, but it's a belief - nothing more, nothing less.

 

However... if you believe the Earth is only 5,000 years old... if you believe homosexuality is some type of learned behavior or 'reversible' or can be 'treated' as though it's some illness... well... you're just wrong. There's proof for that. If you can't see that and accept that, then it's not worth having this conversation.

 

side note: nice to see the jerks who ruined the voting system get shown up, ... and Ema2R. Bigots. Cowards. At the very least there are some individuals here willing to stand up and debate.

 

 

But how is it sugar-coating, I've provided you actual facts all you have done and all anyone has done is say, CFA supported this, and Don Cathy did that, without giving facts to back up what they believe happened. They let the media decide what happened.

 

Right, anyone is allowed to believe anything they want without having to be told or proven wrong by anyone else. A gay man can get married but that goes against what I believe, it's not insensitive it's my conviction. The Bible is what I base my convictions off of along with faith and my own understanding based on logic. The Bible talks about a man not being with another man Leviticus 18:22, to even delve further into this (and I don't know how much you know or care to know) but that also goes against Genesis 1:28 which basically says to be fruitful and multiply, you cannot create life with a man having sex with another man. Not to mention the effect a man and a man getting married has on a possible adopted child, it effects more than just those involved with it. That is insensitive. The eventual outcome of this is humanity cutting off all life and it resulting in the end of civilization.

 

Regardless if you were "born" with those desires or you "created" them it doesn't matter based on what I have provided above from my beliefs and own understanding.

 

Yes I believe in young earth creationism, yes I believe that the Earth was created in six literal days. The reason I believe this is because that is what is understood from the word of God. There was evening and morning-the first day, therefore the Earth cannot be considered over millions of years old. Add to that scientific data if the Earth is slowing down one second per year, than the idea of the Earth being billions of years old is impossible considering the Earth would have been spinning so fast that there would be a distortion in the shape of the Earth. Or the fact that the sun is shrinking at a rate of about five feet per hour, then assuming that rate has been constant, the Sun would have been too hot for life to be sustained just 1 million years ago, let alone many millions of years ago.

 

I disagree that you can't reverse homosexuality, if you were gay and came to know the Lord and realized it was wrong and not healthy and not fair to those you may adopt as your child if it goes that far, you could have enough sense to change how you act, it's not an impossible fix. I know Christians who struggle with homosexuality and have overcome it so to say that isn't true. You're just assuming it's something you're born with, which may be possible but, it is also possible that someone could have been raised poorly or maybe they were in fact just attracted to the same sex. Even with that you still have the option of seeking help or fixing it on your own. It's a sin like anything else and it has an effect on people like anything else.

 

Having feelings for a member of the same sex is not wrong but acting on it or choosing to live that way or get married is against what the Bible states as post salvation to sanctification solution. That may not be what you believe but because I am Christian and that is what the Bible says I will choose to believe that, not to mention other reasons for which I have stated above.

 

Christians don't tell gays not to be gays (I don't) I simply have a different set of convictions and what I believe does not constitute being gay. It's understood from a Christian standpoint as a sin to choose to live in homosexuality.

 

Christians and even non christians have counseling and therapy clinics to help those with problems, it's a choice whether or not one uses them.

 

Religion is a choice no one is forcing you to believe something, thats why there is no "treatment" centers for religion.

 

Who's getting shown up? I know I'm not.

 

What did ... and Ema2R do, is it wrong that they agree with my posts?

FYI my earlier comments in this thread were directed not mainly toward Cathy's comments, but the gay marriage debate in general. And no, I don't believe the gluttony comments are a ridiculous. The Bible says that EVERYONE is a sinner, and EVERYONE falls short of the perfection of Christ. It's okay to believe that AN ACT is wrong. But unless you can prove that is detrimental to society without saying "Because that's what I believe", then your belief really has no right to interfere with the independent actions of other human beings. It's all very silly. Its like saying "I believe listening to Justin Bieber is wrong, therefore listening to his music is illegal". (Hell, his music is probably worse for society than gay marriage).

 

Just remember, the Bible says you are only saved by the grace of God. Too many of arrogant people out there look down upon gays as if they are above them. You're not.

the Earth would have been spinning so fast that there would be a distortion in the shape of the Earth.

 

The circumference of the earth at the equator is 24,901.55 miles (40,075.16 kilometers).

 

But, if you measure the earth through the poles the circumference is a bit shorter - 24,859.82 miles (40,008 km).

 

sun is shrinking at a rate of about five feet per hour

 

http://blog.drwile.com/?p=4204

 

Wrong and wrong.

 

The Bible is what I base my convictions off of along with faith and my own understanding based on logic. The Bible talks about a man not being with another man Leviticus 18:22

 

See, here's my issue; why is this the part you base your convictions on, but not, say, stoning adulturers? Or forcing a woman who was raped in the field to marry the man who did it?

 

What about this:

 

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

 

Why aren't you pushing to have a constitutional amendment against cross dressing?

 

You don't get to deny a group of people their rights as citizens (Which is what banning gay marriage does) because of your conviction if you aren't going to be consistent in it.

But how is it sugar-coating, I've provided you actual facts all you have done and all anyone has done is say, CFA supported this, and Don Cathy did that, without giving facts to back up what they believe happened. They let the media decide what happened.

 

How? Because how they're going about using their words isn't necessarily what their objective is. It's hypocritical action and they're not 'loving' people at those organizations. They're hating people, and they're bigots.

 

Right, anyone is allowed to believe anything they want without having to be told or proven wrong by anyone else. A gay man can get married but that goes against what I believe, it's not insensitive it's my conviction. The Bible is what I base my convictions off of along with faith and my own understanding based on logic. The Bible talks about a man not being with another man Leviticus 18:22, to even delve further into this (and I don't know how much you know or care to know) but that also goes against Genesis 1:28 which basically says to be fruitful and multiply, you cannot create life with a man having sex with another man. Not to mention the effect a man and a man getting married has on a possible adopted child, it effects more than just those involved with it. That is insensitive. The eventual outcome of this is humanity cutting off all life and it resulting in the end of civilization.

 

You're contradicting yourself! Anyone is allowed to believe what they want. It may not be insensitive from your point of view, but when you're in someone else's shoes, it is. When two people love each other and they want to be treated like everyone else, you're not allowing them. Because of your beliefs, not because of their beliefs.

 

I know what the bible says, my friend. You don't need to quote it to me. I'm 100% okay with you living your life by the bible, but if you think your logic is telling you this, your logic is broken. If you want to ignore your logic and intuition and believe the bible, that's legitimate. But if your logic and intuition is telling you that being gay is somehow wrong or immoral, your brain is messed up.

 

And I really hope you didn't just suggest that gay marriage and gay adoption would result in the end of the world because gay people can't reproduce. Homosexuality is not contagious. Kids to homosexual parents do not have any more chance of being gay than kids to straight parents. You know that, right? Gay people are born to straight parents, after all. It takes a straight couple to produce a gay child. I'm shocked that you'd suggest something as illogical as that.

 

 

 

Yes I believe in young earth creationism, yes I believe that the Earth was created in six literal days. The reason I believe this is because that is what is understood from the word of God. There was evening and morning-the first day, therefore the Earth cannot be considered over millions of years old. Add to that scientific data if the Earth is slowing down one second per year then the idea of the Earth being billion of years old is impossible considering the Earth would have been spinning so fast that there would be a distortion in the shape of the Earth. Or the fact that the sun is shrinking at a rate of about five feet per hour, then assuming that rate has been constant, the Sun would have been too hot for life to be sustained just 1 million years ago, let alone many millions of years ago.

 

Okay, so you were serious. You actually believe this. I don't know what to say. Well... if it makes you think any bit better... the bible doesn't have to be wrong to be misinterpreted. God did not write the bible. Man did. God did not publish the bible. Man did. God did not pass the bible down from hand to hand. Man did. God did not print the bible. Man did. God did not translate the bible having much lost in translation over the thousands of years of its existence. Man did. God did not chose to re-write certain testaments to fit his political and social beliefs. Man did.

 

Please do not talk to me about Astronomy. I do not grant you that right. You know and understand nothing of my field. You sound very stupid. I'm not going to bother to actually respond to them, but just know that your knowledge is very inaccurate and what you've said is absolutely wrong. P.S., fwiw, the sun does not represent the age of the universe.

 

 

I disagree that you can't reverse homosexuality, if you were gay and came to know the Lord and realized it was wrong and not healthy and not fair to those you may adopt as your child if it goes that far, you could have enough sense to change how you act, it's not an impossible fix. I know Christians who struggle with homosexuality and have overcome it so to say that isn't true. You're just assuming it's something you're born with, which may be possible but, it is also possible that someone could have been raised poorly or maybe they were in fact just attracted to the same sex. Even with that you still have the option of seeking help or fixing it on your own. It's a sin like anything else and it has an effect on people like anything else.

 

Listen man, I'm more than willing to accept your case about gay adoption. That's it. For reasons other than you'd say, at least. Other than that here... no. You know Christians who are brainwashed. Who lose their mind, and believe they're 'cured'. They're repressed. It's a forced, hidden emotion. They're not the same. I'm not 'assuming' it's something you're born with. I know it's something you're born with. It has nothing to do with a poor raising. That's a crap argument.

 

homosexuality might be a sin to you, but have you ever stopped to think about it? I respect that it's a sin to you. That's fine. But have you ever thought about the other things that the bible considers a sin? How many worse sins are there out there that are committed on a daily basis that are worse than homosexuality? How much emphasis does the bible have on homosexuality as opposed to something along the lines of greed, selfishness, and the sort? How many of these sins do you commit? Why isn't there a ministry set up for stopping gluttonous, fat people? Why isn't there a ministry for greedy people? Why isn't there a ministry for adulterers? Why isn't there a ministry for all of these sinners? Why are the gays targeted by Christians? Why isn't there a ministry for people of other religions, who are therefore sinning and going to hell? Why are Hindi people not targeted by Christians and not allowed to practice their religion here in this country? Does gayism have to be labeled a religion for Christians to be okay with it?

 

 

 

 

Religion is a choice no one is forcing you to believe something, thats why there is no "treatment" centers for religion.

You'd be pretty insulted if I tried to treat you for religion. Or if I tried to treat your brother or your child for religion.

 

But sh*t... nobody is forcing you to believe that homosexuality is okay. Why are there treatment centers for it?

What did ... and Ema2R do, is it wrong that they agree with my posts?

 

 

Contrary, they both just liked every post they agreed with and disliked every post they disagreed with, hiding behind an anonymous system and not actually participating in the thread. This led to the voting system being removed for abuse of the system and trolling. They're cowards.

What did ... and Ema2R do, is it wrong that they agree with my posts?

 

Contrary, they both just liked every post they agreed with and disliked every post they disagreed with, hiding behind an anonymous system and not actually participating in the thread. This led to the voting system being removed for abuse of the system and trolling. They're cowards.

:lol

 

The board has (had) a voting system. I voted.

 

Have you suddenly developed a great disdain for voting or is it just that you dislike how I voted?

 

Never mind, that was rhetorical.

 

As for the substance, I've been watching this sh!t go on for over 40 years. I was at the University of Minnesota in 1970 when Jack Baker tried to marry his boyfriend.

 

The Clerk of Court denied them a license. They sued and lost in MN District Court. They appealed and lost in the MN Supreme Court. An appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court was dismissed thusly, and I quote: “Appeal from Sup. Ct. Minn. dismissed for want of a substantial federal question.�

 

That's the entirety of the opinion. It's binding on lower courts in cases with similar facts, as it was a decision on the merits. The U.S. Supreme Court review was mandatory under 28 USC 1257 as it was an appeal from a state court decision sustaining a state law against a charge of federal unconstitutionality, and was not merely a denial of certiorari. See Baker v. Nelson 409 U.S. 810, 93 S. Ct. 37, 34 L. Ed. 2d 65 (1972.)

 

Minnesota has been a very liberal state for many decades (see Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, Eugene McCarthy, the goofy socialist Paul Wellstone to name but a few,) and I knew when it first started that I would never hear the end of it, and I was quite obviously right.

 

This is a game liberals play -- undermining the social fabric at every opportunity. It's been going on at a relatively low level since about 1900 with a succession of "progressives" into the '30s and accelerated in the '60s with the Vietnam war protests by a bunch of leftist guys who didn't want to get drafted. I watched them, firsthand.

 

Now, I'm no Christian, but rather an agnostic -- far be it from me or anyone else to know what resulted in 100+ billion galaxies with about 100 billion stars each, all of which dates from maybe 13 billion years ago. But, nonetheless, religious "texts" that are 2,000 years old serve the purpose of holding tried and true principles of society together.

 

I don't give two sh!ts what one guy does with another in the privacy of their home, but please don't get in my face about it.

 

The original post said "I like Chick-fil-a quite a lot, and my wife has now sworn them off since the president of the company recently came out and stated (basically) that their company is against gay marriage."

 

Cathy said nothing of the sort. He runs his business according to his religious principles. They close on Sundays. They support the traditional (and obvious) definition of marriage and family and contribute to organizations that support those things. That's his right.

 

They don't discriminate against anyone, employee or customer.

 

What's the problem? Liberals can't stand the fact that someone else might have a different opinion and the balls to actually express it. In an interview in an obscure publication.

 

There have also been a lot of comments to the effect that religion should just "go away." Well, 40 years ago, I might have said the same thing, for some of the same reasons. Not a good idea. When traditional religion is banished, something else is substituted and you get the Soviet Union or China or Cuba or North Korea -- the state replaces religion as something to be worshiped. Why? Most people feel the need to worship something, and that urge is easily put to work.

 

Would you rather that the religious urge be put to work to exhort people to "do unto others as you would do unto yourself" or to glorify the state and grind up anyone who dissents?

 

Religions have been pretty good at slaughtering people over the last 2,000 years, but they can't hold a candle to the hundred million plus done in by religion-free totalitarian governments in the last 95 years.

 

Oh, and by the way, I only discovered the existence of this sub-forum in the last 48 hours.

Supporting traditional marriage = against gay marriage. I don't see why this is so hard.

 

And when the Court says there is no "substantial Federal question," that does NOT mean that the question is necessarily insubstantial in the conventional use of the word; to imply such is misleading.

So would you guys be for allowing Muslims to force you into Sharia Law? After all, that's what some of them believe in. Also, we should allow honor killings, because their religion allows for it.

 

Trying to justify nonsensical traditions out of belief is not only a philosophical no-no, its also dangerous. "Because we've always done it this way" is also not a valid reason for doing anything. Just remember how you want to be treated when the possibility arises one day that Christians are no longer the majority opinion in this country.

This is a game liberals play -- undermining the social fabric at every opportunity. It's been going on at a relatively low level since about 1900 with a succession of "progressives" into the '30s and accelerated in the '60s with the Vietnam war protests by a bunch of leftist guys who didn't want to get drafted. I watched them, firsthand.

 

And undermine that social fabric they have! After all, things are clearly worse now than when blacks were slaves and women were second-class citizens, both without the right to participate in civic society.

Supporting traditional marriage = against gay marriage.

 

Absolutely right.

 

Marriage is what is has been for thousands of years. One man, one woman, not too complicated. Procreate, carry on the species while transmitting basic values to the offspring of the marriage.

 

Gay "marriage" is an oxymoron. There are no offspring to whom to whom anything can be transmitted.

 

Civil unions? OK. You want the usual assortment of legal rights to inherit, etc.? I have no problem with that, seems fair enough.

 

If that's where it ends.

 

But, as you know, the assault on anything and everything basic to our society and social fabric never ends.

So would you guys be for allowing Muslims to force you into Sharia Law? After all, that's what some of them believe in. Also, we should allow honor killings, because their religion allows for it.

 

:lol

 

They kill gays at the drop of a hat and don't think twice about it. Been known to throw them off of 10-story buildings.

 

They kill their own (female) family members at the drop of a hat because they have "disgraced" the family by having a boyfriend, "acting Westernized" or being raped through no fault of their own.

 

I have no truck with religion, particularly not Islam, but as I have said, in it's beneficent forms, it has a place in preserving values that are at the heart of our society.

This is a game liberals play -- undermining the social fabric at every opportunity. It's been going on at a relatively low level since about 1900 with a succession of "progressives" into the '30s and accelerated in the '60s with the Vietnam war protests by a bunch of leftist guys who didn't want to get drafted. I watched them, firsthand.

 

 

And undermine that social fabric they have! After all, things are clearly worse now than when blacks were slaves and women were second-class citizens, both without the right to participate in civic society.

 

I thought that you were smarter than to try to slay 100 or 150 year-old straw-men.

 

As you admit, our social fabric has been undermined. Mainly in the last 50 years.

 

Consider this. No "gay marriage" proposal put to a vote has ever been approved by any state.

 

Why do you think that is?

Gay "marriage" is an oxymoron. There are no offspring to whom to whom anything can be transmitted.

 

 

Infertile couples should also be limited to civil unions then, rather than be allowed to marry, no?

Do you think homosexuals don't have the right to voice their opinions and fight for their rights?

 

Of course not. Nobody, including me ever said that anyone doesn't have the right to voice their opinions. You're entitled to any opinion you care to have. So am I.

 

However, you don't seem to have any idea of what a "right" is.

 

It's certainly not in the Constitution. The Supreme Court has already decided that there is no such "right" and no state electorate has ever voted for said dispensation.

 

Whether some state's electorate may vote for it in the future remains to be seen. Get back to me when it happens.

Infertile couples should also be limited to civil unions then, rather than be allowed to marry, no?

 

Well, Bob, unfortunately for you, by your infantile logic, ALL gay couples should be limited to civil union, procreation being physiologically impossible.

 

Thanks for your support.