This ownership is to blame. They are full of sh*t and they deserve to have this team taken away from them.

They have no money for a stadium: yet they are one of the most profitable teams in baseball

The want to win with pitching and defense: Let's start the season with 3 players playing out of the natural positions Bonifacio in center, LoMo in left, Hanley at 3rd and then surround them with mediocre defensive pieces

They trade away some expensive players, yet its not a fire sale

 

This organization is a joke

 

 

I do think the ownership group is very much to blame, if only for the fact that they have stuck with this front office group for too long. Then again, it's probably the ownership dictating the shots, which is probably why they keep the only guys with too little fortitude to do anything else.

There seems to be a lot of talk lately about the Marlins FO, and justifiably a lot of criticism regarding their decision making. I think when judging this FO, though, it's important to look at more than trades and contracts, which can, on occasion, be susceptible to hindsight (such as the oft mentioned Cabrera/Willis deal). Though this team has certainly given out some immediately questionable contracts and pulled the trigger on mixed trades over the last two seasons.

 

I want to talk a little bit about how this team scouts and handles players. Three scenarios immediately come to mind which I think are indicative of the boneheadedness that defines this FO.

 

1. Bonifacio (2009). I don't really want to get into it, as enough has been said, but they chose to stick with this guy and his negative WAR for 500 PA, potentially costing us a playoff run. This when a presumably productive Gaby Sanchez was waiting in New Orleans.

 

2. Dominguez (2011). They expected him to assume the starting role when all sense and reason said it was exceedingly unlikely he was ready. Then when they realized their error, they had no choice but to throw the starting 3B job at Murphy, having failed to plan for any other contingency. Luckily, Dobbs bailed them out for the first couple months of the season with his .400 BABIP.

 

3. Bell (2012). Yeah. This thing. Perhaps it wasn't entirely their doing, but they gave him that contract. If it was Ozzie insisting on using Bell over and over and over and over, I refuse to believe they weren't capable of stepping in and making sure he wasn't used in leverage situations.

 

I don't know how many wins these three scenarios ultimately cost us. Then there's the futility of the Carlos Lee trade because "he's an RBI guy", their unfounded faith in Coghlan for 100 PA of .400 OPS, the Ozzie Guillen hiring (10 million dollars and prospects for a backward thinking gimmicky manager who seems to judge his success by how many people disagree with him), the constant shuffling of players between New Orleans and unnecessary demotions (followed by pointless and short stints), their over-reliance on scouting, and their apparent obliviousness to sabermetrics and alternate sources of information.

 

Despite their penchant for pulling off a clever trade every now and then, this FO has demonstrated a level of incompetence that I find hard to wrap my head around. Count me among those who think its time for Beinfest/Hill to go, and for this organization to radically reassess it's approach to decision making.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of talk lately about the Marlins FO, and justifiably a lot of criticism regarding their decision making. I think when judging this FO, though, it's important to look at more than trades and contracts, which can, on occasion, be susceptible to hindsight (such as the oft mentioned Cabrera/Willis deal). Though this team has certainly given out some immediately questionable contracts and pulled the trigger on mixed trades over the last two seasons.

 

I want to talk a little bit about how this team scouts and handles players. Three scenarios immediately come to mind which I think are indicative of the boneheadedness that defines this FO.

 

1. Bonifacio (2009). I don't really want to get into it, as enough has been said, but they chose to stick with this guy and his negative WAR for 500 PA, potentially costing us a playoff run. This when a presumably productive Gaby Sanchez was waiting in New Orleans.

 

2. Dominguez (2011). They expected him to assume the starting role when all sense and reason said it was exceedingly unlikely he was ready. Then when they realized their error, they had no choice but to throw the starting 3B job at Murphy, having failed to plan for any other contingency. Luckily, Dobbs bailed them out for the first couple months of the season with his .400 BABIP.

 

3. Bell (2012). Yeah. This thing. Perhaps it wasn't entirely their doing, but they gave him that contract. If it was Ozzie insisting on using Bell over and over and over and over, I refuse to believe they weren't capable of stepping in and making sure he wasn't used in leverage situations.

 

I don't know how many wins these three scenarios ultimately cost us. Then there's the futility of the Carlos Lee trade because "he's an RBI guy", their unfounded faith in Coghlan for 100 PA of .400 OPS, the Ozzie Guillen hiring (10 million dollars and prospects for a backward thinking gimmicky manager who seems to judge his success by how many people disagree with him), the constant shuffling of players between New Orleans and unnecessary demotions (followed by pointless and short stints), their over-reliance on scouting, and their apparent obliviousness to sabermetrics and alternate sources of information.

 

Despite their penchant for pulling off a clever trade every now and then, this FO has demonstrated a level of incompetence that I find hard to wrap my head around. Count me among those who think its time for Beinfest/Hill to go, and for this organization to radically reassess it's approach to decision making.

 

 

 

You know this season sucks when the threads get crabs

at least we are not the pirates. 20 years no playoffs. 20 years no winning record. I have friends that are pirates fans, and the general opinion is playoffs or no playoffs, a winning record would be nice. This is a sign that the fans have given up all hope. When a fan base expects to be below average no matter what team they put on the field that team has been bad for too long. Until our craziest fan's give up, we have not been out of the playoffs too long.

I don't blame the FO for not getting Pujols, Fielder, Cespedes, etc. during the offseason because they were simply demanding too much money-but looking back now I kinda wish they would put down the money-even if that meant giving Pujols 300MM. This season would have been very different had the Marlins actually won any of those huge FA battles.

Can you show me where I was cherry picking? As far as Gaby, I was talking about 2009 before he tailed off this year. He was solid from 10-11, and was clearly a better option than Bonifacio at the time.

 

 

In 2009, Gaby was in AAA because he wasn't ready. You missed the real complaint. The FO put all their hopes in Gaby going into ST that year, and then he failed. Big time. He never was really great with his glove and that year he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat at this level. They had to move Cantu over there for the season, and Boni won the 3B job by default. He really wasn't ready either (it was obvious to everyone after that first week), but we were basically left with no other choice. It was poor planning by the FO in that regard. They put all their apples in one basket and when it was obvious that wasn't panning out, they were left scrambling for an answer. Their answer was fill the holes the best they could while sending Gaby down to work out a few things.

 

Fast forward one season. The guy that came advertised as our 1B of the future because he was GG caliber was fighting it out with Gaby for the position in ST. Gaby had the far better bat that time around and won the job. Offensively speaking, deservedly won the job. So why isn't anyone complaining about that? Basically it's the same thing.

 

Gaby went on to post .289/.374/.475 in New Orleans in 2009, followed by two solid seasons from 10-11. There's a reason you don't put much stock into spring training stats. And fine, they could have tried it out for 1 or 2 months, but they stuck with Bonifacio and his horrendous production for 500 PA in the last season where we came close to sniffing the playoffs.

 

It's pretty retarded to say we had no choice when Gaby was having a solid season in AAA. Anything was a better alternative than continuing to giving arguably the worst player in baseball massive amounts of playing time because you inexplicably like him.

 

Your second paragraph makes no sense to me.

9 years is too long.

"a nine year playoff drought is not that bad even if all 15 other teams have been in since weve Been in."

I mean did you read the sentence you wrote?

It doesnt matter, fans will continue being happy eating there hot dogs. Ownership will be happy eating there spotted dick.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about the Matt Dominguez stuff. I'm pretty sure the guy just sucks offensively for reasons having nothing to do with Hill/Beinfest. There were serious concerns with his swing and low expectations for his bat before 2011.

 

I don't think he was much of a future, but they probably should have held on to him anyway for depth purposes. You have to imagine that the Marlins FO was already contemplating trading Hanley when that Carlos Lee trade was made.

 

 

I was speaking more to the futility of the trade. They got a washed up name, when it would have been a good time to move Morrison to 1B and maximize Ruggiano's playing time. Just stupid.

 

For the 2011 stuff, that was my point. They shouldn't have arbitrarily hoped he would be ready with Donnie Murphy as their only insurance. Things could have been a lot worse those first few months if Dobbs didn't post that sexually pleasing BABIP at 3B. I wasn't faulting the FO for Dominguez's offense; it was for the way they handled him.

 

And yes, I would have liked to keep Dominguez around until at least the end of the season for depth purposes. He was off to a pretty decent start for Houston's AAA.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about the Matt Dominguez stuff. I'm pretty sure the guy just sucks offensively for reasons having nothing to do with Hill/Beinfest. There were serious concerns with his swing and low expectations for his bat before 2011.

 

I don't think he was much of a future, but they probably should have held on to him anyway for depth purposes. You have to imagine that the Marlins FO was already contemplating trading Hanley when that Carlos Lee trade was made.

 

 

I was speaking more to the futility of the trade. They got a washed up name, when it would have been a good time to move Morrison to 1B and maximize Ruggiano's playing time. Just stupid.

 

For the 2011 stuff, that was my point. They shouldn't have arbitrarily hoped he would be ready with Donnie Murphy as their only insurance. Things could have been a lot worse those first few months if Dobbs didn't post that sexually pleasing BABIP at 3B. I wasn't faulting the FO for Dominguez's offense; it was for the way they handled him.

 

And yes, I would have liked to keep Dominguez around until at least the end of the season for depth purposes. He was off to a pretty decent start for Houston's AAA.

I definitely agree with this. I was actually one of the few people here opposed to the Lee trade when it happened.

 

It's sort of silly that they had to trade away more talent (Mujica) just to get back someone of Dominguez's caliber. Cox might have a little bit more upside of the two, but I highly doubt that he amounts to much with that horrid defense.

 

Pretty much. I'm not convinced they were seriously contemplating trading Hanley at the time the Lee trade was made, but that doesn't help the cause of the trade much. I also think they incorrectly valued Lee based on the perception of him being an "RBI guy" and being a name.

 

I agree about Mujica. At this point, I would probably rather have Dominguez. And netted value for Mujica elsewhere or even retained him for next year. 2.5 or 3 million is not terrible for a solid reliever if you're planning on being in contention. Particularly if you're happy to throw 27 million at aging closers.

I basically agree with all of this because I basically hated the Lee deal at the time, too.

 

To be fair, at least they made the deal for Cox. Mujica's value is a lot of nothing. Easily replaceable. So there's that, at least. If anything, I wish the Lee trade never happened and we still made the Mujica-Cox deal for depth at 3B. That would've been nice. Relying on two guys, hoping one pans out.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about the Matt Dominguez stuff. I'm pretty sure the guy just sucks offensively for reasons having nothing to do with Hill/Beinfest. There were serious concerns with his swing and low expectations for his bat before 2011.

 

I don't think he was much of a future, but they probably should have held on to him anyway for depth purposes. You have to imagine that the Marlins FO was already contemplating trading Hanley when that Carlos Lee trade was made.

 

 

I was speaking more to the futility of the trade. They got a washed up name, when it would have been a good time to move Morrison to 1B and maximize Ruggiano's playing time. Just stupid.

 

For the 2011 stuff, that was my point. They shouldn't have arbitrarily hoped he would be ready with Donnie Murphy as their only insurance. Things could have been a lot worse those first few months if Dobbs didn't post that sexually pleasing BABIP at 3B. I wasn't faulting the FO for Dominguez's offense; it was for the way they handled him.

 

And yes, I would have liked to keep Dominguez around until at least the end of the season for depth purposes. He was off to a pretty decent start for Houston's AAA.

I definitely agree with this. I was actually one of the few people here opposed to the Lee trade when it happened.

 

It's sort of silly that they had to trade away more talent (Mujica) just to get back someone of Dominguez's caliber. Cox might have a little bit more upside of the two, but I highly doubt that he amounts to much with that horrid defense.

 

Pretty much. I'm not convinced they were seriously contemplating trading Hanley at the time the Lee trade was made, but that doesn't help the cause of the trade much. I also think they incorrectly valued Lee based on the perception of him being an "RBI guy" and being a name.

 

I agree about Mujica. At this point, I would probably rather have Dominguez. And netted value for Mujica elsewhere or even retained him for next year. 2.5 or 3 million is not terrible for a solid reliever if you're planning on being in contention. Particularly if you're happy to throw 27 million at aging closers.

 

They based Lee on him being better than Sanchez and available for cheap.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about the Matt Dominguez stuff. I'm pretty sure the guy just sucks offensively for reasons having nothing to do with Hill/Beinfest. There were serious concerns with his swing and low expectations for his bat before 2011.

 

I don't think he was much of a future, but they probably should have held on to him anyway for depth purposes. You have to imagine that the Marlins FO was already contemplating trading Hanley when that Carlos Lee trade was made.

 

 

I was speaking more to the futility of the trade. They got a washed up name, when it would have been a good time to move Morrison to 1B and maximize Ruggiano's playing time. Just stupid.

 

For the 2011 stuff, that was my point. They shouldn't have arbitrarily hoped he would be ready with Donnie Murphy as their only insurance. Things could have been a lot worse those first few months if Dobbs didn't post that sexually pleasing BABIP at 3B. I wasn't faulting the FO for Dominguez's offense; it was for the way they handled him.

 

And yes, I would have liked to keep Dominguez around until at least the end of the season for depth purposes. He was off to a pretty decent start for Houston's AAA.

I definitely agree with this. I was actually one of the few people here opposed to the Lee trade when it happened.

 

It's sort of silly that they had to trade away more talent (Mujica) just to get back someone of Dominguez's caliber. Cox might have a little bit more upside of the two, but I highly doubt that he amounts to much with that horrid defense.

 

Pretty much. I'm not convinced they were seriously contemplating trading Hanley at the time the Lee trade was made, but that doesn't help the cause of the trade much. I also think they incorrectly valued Lee based on the perception of him being an "RBI guy" and being a name.

 

I agree about Mujica. At this point, I would probably rather have Dominguez. And netted value for Mujica elsewhere or even retained him for next year. 2.5 or 3 million is not terrible for a solid reliever if you're planning on being in contention. Particularly if you're happy to throw 27 million at aging closers.

 

They based Lee on him being better than Sanchez and available for cheap.

 

This team wasn't a Carlos Lee type bat away from making the playoffs.

This team wasn't a Carlos Lee type bat away from making the playoffs.

 

 

The Team was "Wake the F up or were trading you" away from the playoffs. They did what they could to give them a hand and jump start them. Didn't work.

 

No one knew some of those bats would OD on Sleeping Pills and stay asleep. Gaby, Hanley, Morrison, Buck- No team can compete with some of your best bats hitting .200 on the year. That easily should have been our 3rd, 5th,6th and 8th hitters all slumping to the point they are as useless as a condom in a whorehouse.