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How boneheaded is this Front Office?


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There seems to be a lot of talk lately about the Marlins FO, and justifiably a lot of criticism regarding their decision making. I think when judging this FO, though, it's important to look at more than trades and contracts, which can, on occasion, be susceptible to hindsight (such as the oft mentioned Cabrera/Willis deal). Though this team has certainly given out some immediately questionable contracts and pulled the trigger on mixed trades over the last two seasons.

 

I want to talk a little bit about how this team scouts and handles players. Three scenarios immediately come to mind which I think are indicative of the boneheadedness that defines this FO.

 

1. Bonifacio (2009). I don't really want to get into it, as enough has been said, but they chose to stick with this guy and his negative WAR for 500 PA, potentially costing us a playoff run. This when a presumably productive Gaby Sanchez was waiting in New Orleans.

 

2. Dominguez (2011). They expected him to assume the starting role when all sense and reason said it was exceedingly unlikely he was ready. Then when they realized their error, they had no choice but to throw the starting 3B job at Murphy, having failed to plan for any other contingency. Luckily, Dobbs bailed them out for the first couple months of the season with his .400 BABIP.

 

3. Bell (2012). Yeah. This thing. Perhaps it wasn't entirely their doing, but they gave him that contract. If it was Ozzie insisting on using Bell over and over and over and over, I refuse to believe they weren't capable of stepping in and making sure he wasn't used in leverage situations.

 

I don't know how many wins these three scenarios ultimately cost us. Then there's the futility of the Carlos Lee trade because "he's an RBI guy", their unfounded faith in Coghlan for 100 PA of .400 OPS, the Ozzie Guillen hiring (10 million dollars and prospects for a backward thinking gimmicky manager who seems to judge his success by how many people disagree with him), the constant shuffling of players between New Orleans and unnecessary demotions (followed by pointless and short stints), their over-reliance on scouting, and their apparent obliviousness to sabermetrics and alternate sources of information.

 

Despite their penchant for pulling off a clever trade every now and then, this FO has demonstrated a level of incompetence that I find hard to wrap my head around. Count me among those who think its time for Beinfest/Hill to go, and for this organization to radically reassess it's approach to decision making.

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There seems to be a lot of talk lately about the Marlins FO, and justifiably a lot of criticism regarding their decision making. I think when judging this FO, though, it's important to look at more than trades and contracts, which can, on occasion, be susceptible to hindsight (such as the oft mentioned Cabrera/Willis deal). Though this team has certainly given out some immediately questionable contracts and pulled the trigger on mixed trades over the last two seasons.

 

I want to talk a little bit about how this team scouts and handles players. Three scenarios immediately come to mind which I think are indicative of the boneheadedness that defines this FO.

 

1. Bonifacio (2009). I don't really want to get into it, as enough has been said, but they chose to stick with this guy and his negative WAR for 500 PA, potentially costing us a playoff run. This when a presumably productive Gaby Sanchez was waiting in New Orleans.

 

2. Dominguez (2011). They expected him to assume the starting role when all sense and reason said it was exceedingly unlikely he was ready. Then when they realized their error, they had no choice but to throw the starting 3B job at Murphy, having failed to plan for any other contingency. Luckily, Dobbs bailed them out for the first couple months of the season with his .400 BABIP.

 

3. Bell (2012). Yeah. This thing. Perhaps it wasn't entirely their doing, but they gave him that contract. If it was Ozzie insisting on using Bell over and over and over and over, I refuse to believe they weren't capable of stepping in and making sure he wasn't used in leverage situations.

 

I don't know how many wins these three scenarios ultimately cost us. Then there's the futility of the Carlos Lee trade because "he's an RBI guy", their unfounded faith in Coghlan for 100 PA of .400 OPS, the Ozzie Guillen hiring (10 million dollars and prospects for a backward thinking gimmicky manager who seems to judge his success by how many people disagree with him), the constant shuffling of players between New Orleans and unnecessary demotions (followed by pointless and short stints), their over-reliance on scouting, and their apparent obliviousness to sabermetrics and alternate sources of information.

 

Despite their penchant for pulling off a clever trade every now and then, this FO has demonstrated a level of incompetence that I find hard to wrap my head around. Count me among those who think its time for Beinfest/Hill to go, and for this organization to radically reassess it's approach to decision making.

 

 

Yeah man, because Ozzie Martinez and Jhan Marinez for Ozzie Guillen was a horrible deal for the Miami Marlins- especially when Jack Mckeon announced he was retiring, Bobby Valentine was off the table, and we were headign to a new ballpark and needed a big splash heading into the offseason.

 

Your right. We should have never given up on Martinez and Marinez- we'd be playoff bound and would have clinched the division already.

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There seems to be a lot of talk lately about the Marlins FO, and justifiably a lot of criticism regarding their decision making. I think when judging this FO, though, it's important to look at more than trades and contracts, which can, on occasion, be susceptible to hindsight (such as the oft mentioned Cabrera/Willis deal). Though this team has certainly given out some immediately questionable contracts and pulled the trigger on mixed trades over the last two seasons.

 

I want to talk a little bit about how this team scouts and handles players. Three scenarios immediately come to mind which I think are indicative of the boneheadedness that defines this FO.

 

1. Bonifacio (2009). I don't really want to get into it, as enough has been said, but they chose to stick with this guy and his negative WAR for 500 PA, potentially costing us a playoff run. This when a presumably productive Gaby Sanchez was waiting in New Orleans.

 

2. Dominguez (2011). They expected him to assume the starting role when all sense and reason said it was exceedingly unlikely he was ready. Then when they realized their error, they had no choice but to throw the starting 3B job at Murphy, having failed to plan for any other contingency. Luckily, Dobbs bailed them out for the first couple months of the season with his .400 BABIP.

 

3. Bell (2012). Yeah. This thing. Perhaps it wasn't entirely their doing, but they gave him that contract. If it was Ozzie insisting on using Bell over and over and over and over, I refuse to believe they weren't capable of stepping in and making sure he wasn't used in leverage situations.

 

I don't know how many wins these three scenarios ultimately cost us. Then there's the futility of the Carlos Lee trade because "he's an RBI guy", their unfounded faith in Coghlan for 100 PA of .400 OPS, the Ozzie Guillen hiring (10 million dollars and prospects for a backward thinking gimmicky manager who seems to judge his success by how many people disagree with him), the constant shuffling of players between New Orleans and unnecessary demotions (followed by pointless and short stints), their over-reliance on scouting, and their apparent obliviousness to sabermetrics and alternate sources of information.

 

Despite their penchant for pulling off a clever trade every now and then, this FO has demonstrated a level of incompetence that I find hard to wrap my head around. Count me among those who think its time for Beinfest/Hill to go, and for this organization to radically reassess it's approach to decision making.

 

 

Yeah man, because Ozzie Martinez and Jhan Marinez for Ozzie Guillen was a horrible deal for the Miami Marlins- especially when Jack Mckeon announced he was retiring, Bobby Valentine was off the table, and we were headign to a new ballpark and needed a big splash heading into the offseason.

 

Your right. We should have never given up on Martinez and Marinez- we'd be playoff bound and would have clinched the division already.

 

Yes, it was a horrible deal. You don't win games by "making a big splash". Where did I say we would be playoff bound with those two? You don't give up assets for a manager, especially a mediocre one. Not to mention the money they could have invested in other parts of the team.

 

And by the way, Marinez is having a pretty solid year in AAA (1.12 WHIP, 55K, in 50 innings). I'd rather have him than Gaudin right now.

 

This team needs to be more concerned about winning games than making media-pleasing moves.

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I don't believe this thread really makes any compelling points, but if one really wants to be critical of the management of our team, one only has to look at our record for the last five seasons or so.

 

 

And the fact that they haven't made the playoffs in 8 years, soon to be 9.

 

Since 2004 the only NL teams to not make the playoffs are the Pirates, Nationals, and the Marlins; and the the Pirates and Nationals both have pretty decent chances at making the playoffs this year. The clock is definitely ticking for the Marlins FO. Considering the bad contracts, the bad trade, and the lack of farm system depth, if the Marlins fail to make the playoffs in the next couple of years I see no reason why this FO deserves to keep their jobs.

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I need attention, so I'll start my own thread. Look at meeeeeeee!!!!!

 

Also, the things you focused on aren't necessarily wrong, yet this is some solid cherry picking. And Gaby has proven to suck, anyway.

 

 

That cuts deep, bro. Hard as it may be to believe, I didn't start this thread for attention. If there was another thread dealing with Beinfest/Hill, I'm pretty sure it didn't go into judging them by their handling of players, which I feel warrants it's own discussion. I don't spend every waking moment here monitoring threads beyond the first page. My bad dude.

 

Can you show me where I was cherry picking? As far as Gaby, I was talking about 2009 before he tailed off this year. He was solid from 10-11, and was clearly a better option than Bonifacio at the time.

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Ozzie Martinez was traded but giving up marinez was pretty tough. We knew he had a great arm.

 

 

He definitely had his control issues at the time, but his stuff was raw. He's still walking guys at a good (albeit reduced) rate, but his stuff is resulting in a solid season this year.

 

The point is you just shouldn't give up anything remotely or potentially valuable for a manager who doesn't seem to bring anything to the table.

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There seems to be a lot of talk lately about the Marlins FO, and justifiably a lot of criticism regarding their decision making. I think when judging this FO, though, it's important to look at more than trades and contracts, which can, on occasion, be susceptible to hindsight (such as the oft mentioned Cabrera/Willis deal). Though this team has certainly given out some immediately questionable contracts and pulled the trigger on mixed trades over the last two seasons.

 

I want to talk a little bit about how this team scouts and handles players. Three scenarios immediately come to mind which I think are indicative of the boneheadedness that defines this FO.

 

1. Bonifacio (2009). I don't really want to get into it, as enough has been said, but they chose to stick with this guy and his negative WAR for 500 PA, potentially costing us a playoff run. This when a presumably productive Gaby Sanchez was waiting in New Orleans.

 

2. Dominguez (2011). They expected him to assume the starting role when all sense and reason said it was exceedingly unlikely he was ready. Then when they realized their error, they had no choice but to throw the starting 3B job at Murphy, having failed to plan for any other contingency. Luckily, Dobbs bailed them out for the first couple months of the season with his .400 BABIP.

 

3. Bell (2012). Yeah. This thing. Perhaps it wasn't entirely their doing, but they gave him that contract. If it was Ozzie insisting on using Bell over and over and over and over, I refuse to believe they weren't capable of stepping in and making sure he wasn't used in leverage situations.

 

I don't know how many wins these three scenarios ultimately cost us. Then there's the futility of the Carlos Lee trade because "he's an RBI guy", their unfounded faith in Coghlan for 100 PA of .400 OPS, the Ozzie Guillen hiring (10 million dollars and prospects for a backward thinking gimmicky manager who seems to judge his success by how many people disagree with him), the constant shuffling of players between New Orleans and unnecessary demotions (followed by pointless and short stints), their over-reliance on scouting, and their apparent obliviousness to sabermetrics and alternate sources of information.

 

Despite their penchant for pulling off a clever trade every now and then, this FO has demonstrated a level of incompetence that I find hard to wrap my head around. Count me among those who think its time for Beinfest/Hill to go, and for this organization to radically reassess it's approach to decision making.

 

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 man, but I wouldn't blame Beinfest for too many of the problems of the last few years, remember many of these issues never would have arrived if we had the alleged budget of this year in the past. Beinfest did the best he could with limited resources and bad ownership. At least pick the right battles, Boni has been great the past 2 years, he has turned out way better than I thought he would after 2009, so i'd say they scouted him pretty well. As for the Dominguez thing last year, I think it was pretty obvious that ownership didn't care to make a run until this year, so there really was no urgency to have a starting caliber 3b or have a suitable back up plan.

 

Sure the Bell thing didn't work out, but everyone misses on FAs sometimes. If you really wanna split hairs on a poor decision by the FO, I think you should really start with the John Buck signing, I threw up in my mouth when I saw that! Oh well, i'm glad the FO has the cajones to admit this team didn't have the chemistry it needed and was willing to blow it up sooner than later. You know what they say, if at first you don't succeed try try and try again...

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If I must blame the organization for anything, it is for the fact that the Marlins have never kept players around for long...which is part of the reason this team has struggled with getting fans to come to the games. A lot of the more casual fans like to have players who they can see grow and develop with the team, and whose careers they can follow for years. We never really had that with the Marlins, with the exception of Hanley (which doesn't say much for us.)

 

I'm the kind of Marlins fan who would still buy Marlins gear and go to games even if they got rid of everyone and replaced them with AA players...but that's only because I am so hooked on this team that I don't ever see myself rooting for any other. However, there is a large portion of the population who isn't like that, and the front office has never done a good job attracting them.

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Can you show me where I was cherry picking? As far as Gaby, I was talking about 2009 before he tailed off this year. He was solid from 10-11, and was clearly a better option than Bonifacio at the time.

 

 

In 2009, Gaby was in AAA because he wasn't ready. You missed the real complaint. The FO put all their hopes in Gaby going into ST that year, and then he failed. Big time. He never was really great with his glove and that year he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat at this level. They had to move Cantu over there for the season, and Boni won the 3B job by default. He really wasn't ready either (it was obvious to everyone after that first week), but we were basically left with no other choice. It was poor planning by the FO in that regard. They put all their apples in one basket and when it was obvious that wasn't panning out, they were left scrambling for an answer. Their answer was fill the holes the best they could while sending Gaby down to work out a few things.

 

Fast forward one season. The guy that came advertised as our 1B of the future because he was GG caliber was fighting it out with Gaby for the position in ST. Gaby had the far better bat that time around and won the job. Offensively speaking, deservedly won the job. So why isn't anyone complaining about that? Basically it's the same thing.

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Seriously, 9 years is not that long of a drought for the playoffs. I don't care if every other team has made the postseason since we have, there were some years where we had a better record than some teams who made the playoffs [san Diego was 82-80 is 2005!]

 

Since 1995, 4 teams from each league have made it each year. From here-on out it'll be 5 from each league [if you wanna count that little play-in game]. When you have that, 15 teams making it before you make it again isn't that bad in a 10 year stretch. Some teams get lucky [see: Rockies (twice), Padres in 05, Cardinals in 06, Giants in 2010] due to sudden hot surge or weakness of division. Some teams have been only since since we've been. The Mets and Reds for instance. The Astros made it twice [back to back years] and haven't really been relevant since then.

 

A 9 year playoff drought is not that bad even if all 15 other teams in the league have been in since we've been in. Would I like to be in the playoffs again? Sure! But let's not overreact here.

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This ownership is to blame. They are full of sh*t and they deserve to have this team taken away from them.

They have no money for a stadium: yet they are one of the most profitable teams in baseball

The want to win with pitching and defense: Let's start the season with 3 players playing out of the natural positions Bonifacio in center, LoMo in left, Hanley at 3rd and then surround them with mediocre defensive pieces

They trade away some expensive players, yet its not a fire sale

 

This organization is a joke

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"Forward thinking" Stadium designer---> Loria and Co. (why build a cheap stadium when I can get an expensive one for nothing)

Construction--->Tax payer

Maintenence and electricity--->Tax Payer

Revenue from tickets/concessions-->Loria and Co.

 

***Capitalism***

 

All the Fidel haters out there support this.

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I don't believe this thread really makes any compelling points, but if one really wants to be critical of the management of our team, one only has to look at our record for the last five seasons or so.

 

 

And the fact that they haven't made the playoffs in 8 years, soon to be 9.

 

Since 2004 the only NL teams to not make the playoffs are the Pirates, Nationals, and the Marlins; and the the Pirates and Nationals both have pretty decent chances at making the playoffs this year. The clock is definitely ticking for the Marlins FO. Considering the bad contracts, the bad trade, and the lack of farm system depth, if the Marlins fail to make the playoffs in the next couple of years I see no reason why this FO deserves to keep their jobs.

I'm not as harsh about the FO as I once was but yea I agree 100% enough of this, win or get new people.

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