If you're talking about a fifth starter, his second half last year was fantastic. And he's had a good spring. He's done nothing wrong or been outplayed by anyone to lose that spot so he should hold it.

Agreed 100%.

If you're talking about a fifth starter, his second half last year was fantastic. And he's had a good spring. He's done nothing wrong or been outplayed by anyone to lose that spot so he should hold it.

 

Fantastic is a bit of an overstatement. 4.14 era, batters hit .275 against him, and 31 BBs versus 51ks in 74 IP. Oof.

 

Hand has more upside than Koehler which is why I'd rather see him get the 5th spot.

They are shopping Turner - https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/446706246696337408

 

Would be really great if they could get Nick Franklin

Tha

They are shopping Turner - https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/446706246696337408

 

Would be really great if they could get Nick Franklin

 

That would be amazing actually.

Tha

 

 

That would be amazing actually.

 

I really, really doubt that swap would happen straight up. I would rather let Turner's value come back up a little bit and eventually trade some if those starters who get hot at the deadline.

I don't know why everyone assumes Turner is worthless via trade. We have absolutely no idea what he's worth, and if anything his value is way up with all the injuries around the league this spring. He's worth what someone is willing to pay... Only Hill/Jennings knows what that is.

I don't know why everyone assumes Turner is worthless via trade. We have absolutely no idea what he's worth, and if anything his value is way up with all the injuries around the league this spring. He's worth what someone is willing to pay... Only Hill/Jennings knows what that is.

 

Well if I was Seattle I would under no circumstances give up Franklin for Turner.

http://www.therunnersports.com/2014/03/20/miami-marlins-trade-rumors-trading-strength/

 

I was thinking along the same lines as some of you. Keep in mind, (re: Gregorius and Franklin) they won't be kept on their current teams as backups and both are blocked long term by the other guy (Owings/Miller)

I don't know why everyone assumes Turner is worthless via trade. We have absolutely no idea what he's worth, and if anything his value is way up with all the injuries around the league this spring. He's worth what someone is willing to pay... Only Hill/Jennings knows what that is.

 

We have an idea that he isn't very good right now. That's an indication, but ai hope you're right. I'd be estatic to get Franklin.

so much for that

 

Miami Marlins telling teams Jacob Turner unavailable

If Seattle gives us Franklin straight up then I'd worry there was something seriously wrong with him

If Seattle gives us Franklin straight up then I'd worry there was something seriously wrong with him

They have no use for Franklin. Just like we essentially need to trade a pitcher, they need to trade a middle infielder. Better to get some value now that they can fill a need (SP) than keep him around in AAA.

Fantastic is a bit of an overstatement. 4.14 era, batters hit .275 against him, and 31 BBs versus 51ks in 74 IP. Oof.

 

Hand has more upside than Koehler which is why I'd rather see him get the 5th spot.

Considering the average ML ERA is around 4.3, 4.1 is pretty good for a back of the rotation guy. If he could post that over a full year I'd be ecstatic.

I'd rather wait unless I get Franklin. Feed a few of this logjam of pitchers to a desperate contender at the deadline and get more value.

Assuming the Mariners were interested in Turner, who else do you guys think it would take to pry Franklin away?

 

This is all, of course, just a dream given that Adeiny is "our guy"

Considering the average ML ERA is around 4.3, 4.1 is pretty good for a back of the rotation guy. If he could post that over a full year I'd be ecstatic.

 

No that would be great, I agree, but his other stats suggest that ERA number was extremely lucky.

I'd rather wait unless I get Franklin. Feed a few of this logjam of pitchers to a desperate contender at the deadline and get more value.

I don't see there being a logjam in pitching. If you trade Turner, you are pretty much faced with putting Hand and Koehler into the rotation and neither of them are likely to have bright futures or anything like that. That is, until Heaney is ready and hopefully the Marlins don't rush him like they've been known to do in the past.

 

That's assuming that everyone stays healthy too (remember that Alvarez and Eovaldi spent some time on the DL last year) and everyone still lives up to expectations.

 

The Marlins would be foolish to trade any of the pitchers with reasonable upside at any point this season.

I don't see there being a logjam in pitching. If you trade Turner, you are pretty much faced with putting Hand and Koehler into the rotation and neither of them are likely to have bright futures or anything like that. That is, until Heaney is ready and hopefully the Marlins don't rush him like they've been known to do in the past.

 

That's assuming that everyone stays healthy too (remember that Alvarez and Eovaldi spent some time on the DL last year) and everyone still lives up to expectations.

 

The Marlins would be foolish to trade any of the pitchers with reasonable upside at any point this season.

 

By logjam he's probably referring to the other 4-6 major league ready, or near major league ready, arms that we have. Flynn, for instance, has zero left to prove in the minors.

That's not a logjam. It's called having depth, which is something that the Marlins rarely seem to have.

 

You don't move arms to make room for someone like Brian Flynn.

That's not a logjam. It's called having depth, which is something that the Marlins rarely seem to have.

 

You don't move arms to make room for someone like Brian Flynn.

Brian Flynn is pretty good. You'd be super excited about Flynn if you were a Cubs fan and he was in that system.

 

And depth is having arms throughout the system. A logjam is what we have; a lot of arms that are all about ready at once. It's a great problem, but I'd say logjam is accurate.

Being ready does not mean that those arms are serviceable and fit for the rotation. To say that Flynn is "pretty good" and "ready" after one solid season in the minors is pretty ridiculous. Small sample size, but he was lousy in the 4 starts he got in MLB last season. He's someone to keep an eye on, I suppose, but as usual you are overrating him.

 

You could easily find yourself rotating guys like Flynn, Hand, and Koehler in and out of the 5th starter spot and find out that they are all pretty bad. I don't think that the Marlins are unfortunate or anything in being unable to grant more than one of those guys a rotation spot. The Marlins would be lucky to get one serviceable 5th starter out of them.

 

Even Alvarez and Eovaldi have not thrown enough innings yet to prove their reliability.

I'm looking over the data on Flynn again (mostly pitch f/x stuff) and I see him as being AAA fodder, at least for this season. His stuff is pretty unimpressive, so I don't see why a Cubs fan would be excited about him at all.

Being ready does not mean that those arms are serviceable and fit for the rotation. To say that Flynn is "pretty good" and "ready" after one solid season in the minors is pretty ridiculous. Small sample size, but he was lousy in the 4 starts he got in MLB last season. He's someone to keep an eye on, I suppose, but as usual you are overrating him.

 

You could easily find yourself rotating guys like Flynn, Hand, and Koehler in and out of the 5th starter spot and find out that they are all pretty bad. I don't think that the Marlins are unfortunate or anything in being unable to grant more than one of those guys a rotation spot. The Marlins would be lucky to get one serviceable 5th starter out of them.

 

Even Alvarez and Eovaldi have not thrown enough innings yet to prove their reliability.

 

I'm looking over the data on Flynn again (mostly pitch f/x stuff) and I see him as being AAA fodder, at least for this season. His stuff is pretty unimpressive, so I don't see why a Cubs fan would be excited about him at all.

 

Well, it was more than solid, he was the best starting pitcher in the PCL, which is notoriously a hitters league. He was really, really good actually. His 4 starts in the majors came after 161 innings in NO, the most he had ever thrown in his life. Even the front office credited his bad finish to fatigue. He could easily be the fifth starter on this team and many others.

 

If I were a Cub fan I would be ecstatic to have Flynn start the year in the rotation. He's a top 10 prospect on almost all our organizational rankings, way ahead of Brad Hand. His stuff may have been unimpressive in September, but it's actually not. He's a 6'7 lefty with low/mid 90's velocity, a good slider and change, and can throw strikes. Those guys don't grow on trees. I would not be surprised if he was our best fifth starter this year when it's all said and done.

You are drastically overstating his stuff. He doesn't throw "low/mid 90s" but rather according to scouting reports and the Pitch F/X numbers, he's more in the high 80s/low 90s range and very rarely throws 93-94. He's basically a soft-tossing lefty, which do grow on trees. That kind of profile could conceivably excel in the PCL but it's much less likely that it translates into success at the MLB level, especially taking into account his underwhelming secondary pitches. The slider has some potential, but scouts have been down on the command of the change-up. I don't think that you or the Marlins or the FO can so easily dismiss all of his struggles in September as fatigue related. Either way, his stuff isn't good enough for anyone to be excited about really unless he can start pitching in that 94-96 MPH range outside of brief flashes.

 

I guess add him to the list of the other mediocre players that aren't nearly as good as you think they are.

I wish the best for Flynn but jesus dude, you are completely overrating him as penguino said. I'd be curious about his magical mid 90s fastball as the only thing I've ever seen and read is upper 80s/low 90s. His ceiling is a #4 pitcher that eats up innings and that's it.