https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/10/marlins-outright-four-players.html

 

l'm just OK with this kind of rebuild…

 

 

What's the point of only dumping some?

 

If there's a legitimate money issue, dumping only some of them might alleviate the problem. 

 

Most of the players are still young enough where you can rebuild and keep them, too. Just a choice of which. 

 

 

Going back to the Cabrera Stanton comp; if we want to broaden the discussion perhaps Hanley Ramirez should be included.  There is an example where we held onto the player too long. 

 

 

$400 million in debt, losing another $40-70 million each season.

 

I was recently told that one way to get back all the money lost is to spend even more money. 

 

 

I was recently told that one way to get back all the money lost is to spend even more money. 

 

There's arguably no good option.  Cutting payroll just dooms the team and the fan base. Sticking to payroll Dow the team. I would venture to say moderate spending is necessary, taking a loss for 2-3 more years before cutting it down and starting over. 

 

 

$400 million in debt, losing another $40-70 million each season.

 

Teams always needed the fans that much cared their financial situation…

 

 

I think there's a 2b there... trade Stanton and another pricy veteran. Attempt to save face on the likes of Ozuna as your MVP. Less likely, but it's an option. 

 

Regardless of a fire sale, it sounds like they're going to lose money either way. So I don't think an all out fire sale is likely. I don't mean to say that losing any amount of money is the same, but rather suggest that they probably have to come up with a maximum amount of money bled. Assuming a low payroll team still fails to turn a positive. 

 

 

Loria probably sold the team because he knew that he was accruing so much debt with all of those contracts on the books all while fielding a mediocre team. He knew that the only fiscally responsible course of action would be to dismantle everything and trade Stanton, but he didn't want to have to go through that again (having done it as recently as post-2012) and face that negative PR that accompanies it, so he got the hell out of town. You can’t really blame him.

 

Can’t really blame him?

 

I place 95% of the blame on him for this shit sandwich that all Marlins fans are about to take a giant bite of. 

 

Loria NEVER had any intention of paying the expensive years of Stanton’s contract. The 13 year good faith Marlins deal was a mirage. 

 

Don’t say shit like “you can’t blame him” for anything.  Of course he sold!  That was the plan from the beginning. 

 

 

I place 95% of the blame on him for this shit sandwich that all Marlins fans are about to take a giant bite of. 

 

I hadn't packed a lunch today, I now know what I'm having. 

 

 

He mismanaged terribly, but deep down he wanted to win. Of course I blame him for everything bad that happened with this franchise, but I completely understand (ie, can't blame him) why he packed everything up and left town after he dug himself into this hole.

 

I also believe that he would have stuck around for another few seasons if Jose hadn't died and those free agent signings from the last 1-2 years hadn't started bankrupting the team.

 

OMG I absolutely agree with this. 

 

As much as we wanna punch Loria in the face for what he's done I have never believed he woke up every morning saying "How can I screw over this team, this fanbase, and this city today?" He wanted to win and tried to he was just pretty bad at it. This is also not just a hunch as I've heard several people in baseball say this same thing including players. 

 

 

He became his own worst enemy. He wanted to win so badly that he micromanaged every move. Unfortunately for him, he didn't know what the fuck he was doing and had really backwards philosophy on how to build a roster and scout for talent.

 

And now this brings up the question on how much of this micromanaging is what made Mike Hill look like such a bad GM? Can Hill be "better" if he's working with a different group of front office people both above him and below him?

 

I didn't think we were going to have to get an answer to that question but it seems like that may be the case at least for the start of the Sherman-Jeter era. 

 

 

Basically Loria was incompetent but not evil.

 

I can’t agree with that. 

 

Structuring Stanton’s contract the way he did (with zero intentions of paying the back end) is going to cripple this franchise.

 

That is evil. 

 

 

I would venture to say Loria was pretty evil during his reign as Florida Marlins owner. But with the Miami Marlins, it's two different stories with similar notes. 

 

 

Check out this quote from a Herald article after Beinfest was fired:

 

“Loria contemplated firing Beinfest a year ago, and Friday’s announcement came amid widespread reports that Loria had seized control of nearly all baseball decisions, “marginalizing” the front office in the process, sources have said.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article1955602.html#storylink=cpy

 

Not sure what “widespread reports means”.  That could just mean that the guy from the Herald, Sun Sentinel, and Post all agreed on something.  But it could mean more.  We know Loria wanted to fire Girardi after an in-game shouting match.  We know he took a personal interest in certain players like Fernandez.  Maybe he had a close personal relationship with Hill and it came at the expense of team success.  We can only speculate.  But the quote highlighted above suggests his meddling went beyond mere requests. 

 

 

So you think he should have traded Stanton instead of signing him?

 

No. Of course, no. 

 

 

Stanton is going to hurt more- the season he just had and the hope a new ownership brought people is going to crush this fan base. 

 

Cabrera was eating himself out of the NL until they traded him, and while great we got what many considered an amazing return for him. 

 

Stanton's contract is considered an albatross, and it's driving his value down- regardless of what he did on the field. In a few years, his contract will look like a bargain. Harper and Trout, are going to easily get 30MM + in a bidding war, and probably clear 350mm. Stanton is the highest paid now, but not for long. 

 

Not if TV ratings continue to slide, and more people continue to "cut the cord". This is where MLB has really dropped the ball. Not selling the game to the next generation, and going after foreign markets and seemingly "expecting the next generation to flock to watch the game when in fact they have a product that isn't even on the radar of many people below 30. It was UNTHINKAbLE just 15 years ago that any of the baseball post-season wouldn't be on one of the big 3 networks, yet here we are today with not one post-season game on one of them yet this year. 

 

Baseball, NBA and NFL money train is I think closer than anyone thinks to halting its forward motion. Now I could be wrong, because I'm sure that Jeter & Sherman might have more information than I, but I just don't see it. I must not have their total vision, and knowledge of all the revenue streams. I know that the Marlins have had trouble selling all the TV spots on their telecasts, because you saw waaaaay too many adverts, almost every commercial break for other shows on that station, or non-paid PSA type commercials. You know if they could they would not be showing those but spots for more businesses. 

 

I don't know but I'm having trouble reconciling that $1.2 billion number....unless there is some tax code stuff like a capitol gains loss or something else....I'm no tax accountant, but that is a lot of money to pay for a team that doesn't have such a great revenue stream, and potentially even less once new tv contracts are negotiated. 

 

 

$400 million in debt, losing another $40-70 million each season.

 

This is what I don't get....if the franchise is truly doing that poorly, HOW DO YOU TURN IT AROUND ? And why do you pay $1.2 billion for it.....shouldn't it be a lot cheaper.....I'm lost. No jokes here please.....explain how & why you $1,2 billion only to know you are going to lose $40 million + for the forseable future ? 

 

 

Basically Loria was incompetent but not evil.

 

No....he was 50/50 on it all. I've heard some horror stories from a friend that worked in the organization in the front office side (not an executive but much lower ranking). Said he and Samson were just horribly nasty to people they perceived as replaceable....i.e. secretaries, etc. Terribly rude, yell at you, never say thank you, or smile your way....mostly treat you as though you were invisible. Just not nice people.  

 

 

LMAO

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-jeters-hiring-and-firing-decisions-annoy-loria/

 

Loria, according to sources, suggested that Jeter keep high-ranking baseball people Mike Berger, Jeff McAvoy, Marc Delpiano and Jim Benedict, and that he let go longtime scouting director Stan Meek. Jeter has already fired the four Loria suggested he keep, and word is that Jeter is likely keeping Meek, who would have been let go by Loria.

 

 

 

Well if there's a consolation, Jeter obviously doesn't like Loria either. 

 

 

LMAO

 

https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-jeters-hiring-and-firing-decisions-annoy-loria/

 

I like this Jeter guy.

 

 

Its funny because there probably are several smart people in DelPiano McAvoy Benedict and Berger but it totally comes off as just "if Loria liked you, you need to go."

 

Then again, a new ownership is gonna hire their own people no matter how good the previous people were so maybe this was all coming no matter what. 

 

Still got a good laugh from it though. 

 

 

Loria should have told Jeter to keep Hill

 

 

I keep wondering how much of that 40 mil in losses/year can be cut off the field

 

 

I keep wondering how much of that 40 mil in losses/year can be cut off the field

 

If they cut it off the field the grounds crew would have plenty of work to do. 

 

 

 

(I'm sorry, not sorry)