December 21, 200322 yr I'd love to be talked out of my pessimism, but every move we've made has made us a weaker team ... Choi< Lee Castro/Redman< Pudge Benitez< Urbina No one< Redman No one< Encarnacion No one< Looper I know it's early, but we need a big time rally
December 21, 200322 yr well obviously we're weaker this year than last year... i don't think anyone was expecting our payroll to balloon to $90 million. i'm still optimistic about this coming season though... i don't have any trouble believing we will have one of our best three seasons of all time.
December 21, 200322 yr Author I'm not sure we've saved that much either, especially when you consider the holes we have to fill. I'd love to know what we offered Penny and Pavano
December 21, 200322 yr ur forgetting that players breakout u know... cabrera will be better and we will have willis for a full yr... conine is better than enc and we can have him for a full yr too.. who knowsw what choi can do. he could be better than lee. and beckett is healthy and pavano should be better. who know what penny can do also. and castro production should be more rbi and more hr than pudge. we are not weeker .
December 21, 200322 yr I'd love to be talked out of my pessimism, but every move we've made has made us a weaker team ... Choi< Lee Castro/Redman< Pudge Benitez< Urbina No one< Redman No one< Encarnacion No one< Looper I know it's early, but we need a big time rally Choi vs. Lee. No doubt, Lee is a loss. I'm not sure why everyone is so down on Choi though. Last year he was one of the top 5 offensive prospects in all of baseball. He was having a pretty good rookie year until the injury, and that was with Dusty Baker messing around with his playing time. He won't be D-Lee defensively, but the guy can flat out hit. He's done it at every level. I think he'll produce around 20 HR this year with 75-80 RBI with a decent batting average. Plus you know he'll get on base. Castro/Redmond vs. Pudge. Well, Pudge is a Hall of Famer, and you won't be able to replace what he did defensively. Castro/Redmond, may, however be able to replace Pudge's production. Castro should get the majority of the playing time. He'll mostly likely hit more HR than Pudge and hopefully drive in around what Pudge did. To me, Pudge is the hardest to replace, but who knows, Castro deserves the opportunity, provided he's not in prison. Benitez vs. Urbina. I personally like Benitez. I think a lot of the negativity surrounding him was a product of the NY media. Look at his numbers, he's been one of the elite closers in baseball. He struggled a little bit on a terrible Mets team and he took a lot of the blame. He pitched well with both the Yankees and Mariners. I think that Urbina was not re-signed for a reason. He would have commanded the same amount of $$ as Benitez, but if you paid close attention during his stint with the Marlins you saw some warning signs. He pitched great most of his time here, but his velocity was down, a lot of times in the 88-92 range. I could be wrong, but he used to be consistently in the mid 90's. He relied a lot on off speed stuff and he was hit pretty hard in the post season, even if it didn't result in giving up a lot of runs. By the end he wasn't really fooling anyone. You say no one replaced those guys, but you have Cabrera in place of Encarnacion, Burnett in place of Redman, and Fox replacing Looper. Cabrera is already a better hitter than Encarnacion, not to mention about $4 million cheaper, and he's only going to get better. I don't think you lose much if anything defensively in RF. Burnett will be back in May or June, and you'd think that they are looking at short term #5 starters. They will probably look at El Duque and maybe bring back Redman. Fox replacing Looper is, to me, at worst a wash. Fox is a better pure pitcher, with just as live an arm. If he can stay healthy, he'll be one of the best set-up men in the league. There is still some work to be done. The obvious needs are a lefty out of the pen and another starter until AJ returns. I'd also like to see 1 more set-up guy in the pen, although they may be hoping that either Neal or Neu steps up into that role. That would be Spooney's role, but I think he's pretty much done for the year. The bench could use another bat or two, but there will be no shortage of 4th or 5th OF's on the market. I guess the conclusion is that while the team took some hits in the offseason, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to contend for a post season spot again, and that's pretty much all you can ask. Will this group win the WS again? Who knows, but I bet you didn't think they could last year at this time either.
December 21, 200322 yr Weaker? Maybe in that December name recognition type way. I actually think we're stronger. Choi and Miggy are unknowns to most, but fared well showing much promise in their first years in the bigs. It's not a stretch to say they along with Conine can match Enc, Hollandsworthless and Lee. Castro/Redmond bothers me greatly, but if Castro is still with the club I think any loss in production will be matched by a healthy Lowell and Castillo. Pitching? Sheesh! Replacing Redman with atleast 4 months of Burnett is an upgrade. Willis may not perform great, but he'd do well enough. The bullpen looks shaky, but it looks better than anything the club had before last July.
December 21, 200322 yr I'd love to be talked out of my pessimism, but every move we've made has made us a weaker team ... Choi< Lee Castro/Redman< Pudge Benitez< Urbina No one< Redman No one< Encarnacion No one< Looper I know it's early, but we need a big time rally Ok ... Lee is nothing to rave about offensively other than his occasionally meaningful contributions. Fudge?No one was more clutch than Pudge in the playoff but what he accomplish in the regular season is not out the reach of Castro/Redman combo. Benitez era is not bad and he was just affected by the crowd and never snap out of it.I think he will do well in south florida. Redman?No one?How about AJ Burnett and don't rule out bringing back Redman. Encarnancion?No one? Cabrera is no one? Looper?No one?Chad Fox?Neu? This team is not any weaker than last year in fact it might better as you expect the young player to improve.
December 21, 200322 yr Our team is weaker but our pitching is not. Pitching is the key, if you want to win. With Castillo and Pierre at top, im sure Lowell and possibly Vlad can drive them in.
December 21, 200322 yr I'd love to be talked out of my pessimism, but every move we've made has made us a weaker team ... Choi< Lee Castro/Redman< Pudge Benitez< Urbina No one< Redman No one< Encarnacion No one< Looper I know it's early, but we need a big time rally If Choi comes into his own, don't consider the trade off too large a drop. If Castro lives up to the hype, he could/should be more productive than Ivan in 2003. Benitez is one of the best closers in the game. AJ Burnett is no one!? He's only our best pitcher, and I'd rather have him than Mark Redman. Miguel Cabrera is going to be more productive than Juan Encarnacion, I can tell you that. He is certainly not "no one." And we're going to get a non-tender or two or even three for the bullpen, and one of them is probably going to be as good as Looper. Not to mention that Looper is still in the picture to be re-signed. I don't know what you're talking about, but it looks to me like we're fine.
December 21, 200322 yr Pierre + Castillo at the top of the order. Besides pitching, that was the main reason we made it to the playoffs.
December 21, 200322 yr well...we dont have so much $$$ to keep all of our players... getting rid of lee and getting choi was a good move-you cant blame them for that-they just dont have enough money and pudge=he wanted 10 mill. a year for 4 or 5 years-that is way to much...you cant blame them for not signing him either-and castro and redmond should be able to do the job...even though they havent really proved themselves yet... but when you dont have so much $$$ you shouldnt be mad about getting worse...we should be happy that were not doing what we did after 97...and next year the marlins are gonna be a good team... GO MARLINS!!!
December 21, 200322 yr Pierre + Castillo at the top of the order. Besides pitching, that was the main reason we made it to the playoffs. i love that combination...
December 21, 200322 yr Actually, it seems most here agree that the Marlins are better right now than some think. Last year I thought we would win 90 games - this year, I think we may not but we will be very close. There are a couple of X factors, and everyone has hit upon them. I dont think we are done dealing yet, and even if we were, I am prepared to say we will be in contention, but we may have to get lucky to actually get back to the playoffs. I like Choi, by the way. This guy is going to be an excellent hitter.
December 21, 200322 yr this team will still be very good. weaker in some spots. stronger in others. thats life.
December 21, 200322 yr this team will still be very good. weaker in some spots. stronger in others. thats life. EXACTLY Especially when you don't have so much money... If we were the Yankee's and we got weaker than it would be bad...but there is nothing that we could do about it...if the players dont want to sign with us even though they would be much happier here than its not our fault...they go after the money...
December 21, 200322 yr You know what, change is good for championship teams... Example, everyones favorite Disney team the Angels... I actually think that we have a slight drop off defensively at first and possibly right field since both players are still adjusting to the Major Leagues at there positions.... I think our hitting is better since Cabs>Encarnacion and Choi (If he pans out)>Lee Offensively Choi
December 21, 200322 yr I think it's easy to look at the lineup and think we're weaker than we were last year, but we need to remember that this team is built as a pitching team. Look at Oakland in the AL....every year, it looks like they get weaker and weaker offensively, yet every year, they end up winning more games than almost everyone else in the majors. Hell, in 2001, they lost the AL MVP (!) in Jason Giambi, and they still came back the next year and won the AL West. The only constants are the big 3 - Mulder, Hudson, Zito. That's what the Marlins are looking to accomplish, and i think that if Burnett comes back, we will once again have one of the most impressive rotations, 1-5, in all of baseball, and it's been proven time and time again that's more than enough to win.
December 21, 200322 yr I think it's easy to look at the lineup and think we're weaker than we were last year, but we need to remember that this team is built as a pitching team. Look at Oakland in the AL....every year, it looks like they get weaker and weaker offensively, yet every year, they end up winning more games than almost everyone else in the majors. Hell, in 2001, they lost the AL MVP (!) in Jason Giambi, and they still came back the next year and won the AL West. The only constants are the big 3 - Mulder, Hudson, Zito. That's what the Marlins are looking to accomplish, and i think that if Burnett comes back, we will once again have one of the most impressive rotations, 1-5, in all of baseball, and it's been proven time and time again that's more than enough to win. Yup-Pitching wins you ballgames... Thats why we should concentrate on pitching first...
December 21, 200322 yr Of course the Fish are a little weaker now.... This is the other shoe dropping - You knew that the Marlins were going to have to pay the piper for their one-year contracts strategy last off-season. But there are alot of decent FA's out there, and a lot of time left to sign them. And the East is weaker this year. All in all, the FO did a great job diminishing the possible fallout and turnover that could of been.
December 21, 200322 yr Choi (If he pans out)>Lee i would be thrilled and shocked if we'd see that this year
December 21, 200322 yr Choi (If he pans out)>Lee i would be thrilled and shocked if we'd see that this year same here...but it COULD happen...
December 21, 200322 yr And the East is weaker this year. Yes and no. The Phillies got stronger, the Braves got much weaker. It's between us and Philly IMHO.
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