Oliver sucks. No way we should have paid that guy $500K, let alone $750K. I like Beinfest, but this deal reeks. What was he thinking when he made this deal???

Oliver can hit, by the way. Redman couldn't even bunt. Yes on this one the Marlins totally got the better of it.

Not to pick on you Repeatin04, but I love how everyone is so quick to point out that Oliver hits better than Redman, using that in their reasoning for why we got the better deal. He isn't getting paid to hit, folks. He may get 50 AB's this year if he's lucky. I don't see the big deal here. hey, if dude goes 10/50 then I'm happy as hell. Especially if some of those hits are rbi's and he wins the game for us. Yeah, 10 for 50, I'm happy too, but that's still really not a great reason to be included for why we got Oliver. After he gets his 4 or 5 starts til' Burnett comes back, he'll have even less chances to get that game-winning RBI. gee, if you think pitchers can't help their cause at the plate, you are greatly mistaken. Dontrelle's bat helped him get a few wins. Obviously, Oliver was signed for his pitching. My point correctly notes Oliver provides what Redman did, for much less money. Fact that Oliver can help the team with his bat too is a plus. So really I'm not sure what your point is. Redman faded miserably and the fact remains, when AJ is ready, Redman wouldn't have cracked the rotation of Josh, Brad, Pav, D Train and AJ. So Oliver is clearly a smart signing. :hat The champ

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver, who is just as good and far less money.

 

I guess that's why the A's took Redman over an available Darren Oliver for almost $3 million more for the year. Maybe there's a career for you as GM of the A's because clearly you have a better handle on baseball talent than Billy Beane does.

 

 

lol :thumbdown in this case, yes, it's not me who has a better handle on things than Billy Beane. It's Admin Beinfest. The Marlins get a productive lefty, just as productive as Redman. Oliver can hit, by the way. Redman couldn't even bunt. Yes on this one the Marlins totally got the better of it. Give me Darren Oliver over Mark Redman right now for the dollars spent. By the way, getting rid of Redman allowed Marlins to keep Burnett too. So think of it, Marlins get Burnett/Oliver for 3.250 mil. Redman signs for 3.9. Brilliant moves by Beinfest. Maybe Billy Beane should think more like the Marlins GM. Then he may actually figure out how to win in the playoffs.

Try as you will to weasel out of what you said, let me quote you "Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver, who is just as good and far less money.

 

The operative phrase is "just as good" , and nothing could be farther from the truth. Comparing Redman's relative value to Oliver's based on price would be like saying five day old fish are "just as good" as fresh fish because one cost $6.00 per lb and other 25 cents per pound.

 

Beinfest didn't sign Oliver because he was "just as good" as Redman but cheaper. He got him because he was still available and cheap and could eat up innings. And without a sizable investment at risk, he could dump him and move on if the guy didn't produce.

 

You can try and throw an AJ into the mix to disguise your misstatement, you can amplify on your comments until they are virtually unrecognizable, but the fact is you're wrong about comparing Redman to Oliver, just as you wrong to suggest Admin Beinfest out-smarted Billy Beane by picking up this guy. For his career, Oliver has more than Redman. Oliver has more starts than Redman. Sorry, but I have clearly proven my point. The numbers speak for themselves. And yes, Beinfest outmastered Beane, who way overspent on Redman, a fluke last year who flopped in the second half. Oliver is just as good, if not better based on a higher career winning percentage. Give me the wins, baby. I'm with Trader Jack on that one. Billy Beane is in for a huge fall. His moneyball theories are blowing up. Sorry, I win this one AGAIN. :hat The champ

OK alot of people think that tejera and oliver suck...well let's see what happens after this season

Oliver has an 84-76 or something lifetime record. He throws 180 innings. Makes 33 starts last year. That is hardly sucky. You fools need to get a grip and an understanding of baseball. It's thoughts and posts like yours that reflect why Marlins fans are among the worst in history Agreed.

So Wild, I assume by your post you believe that "Marlins fans are among the worst in history" ?

 

And I assume you agree what Repeatin said about Fishfan25 and people here in general "You fools need to get a grip and an understanding of baseball" ?

 

Good to know what you really think of everyone here and what you think about fans generally. It clears up alot when it comes to your posts.

 

Nice company you're keeping. :thumbdown what makes you an authority? Marlins fans aren't very good. We don't have many fans. It's an area that is in need of improvement. I hope the Marlins fans become better educated and more rapid. They aren't at this point. That's what message boards are about to educate and inform and entertain and discuss the game in a civil manner, which I always strive to do. :hat The champ

We have a much better squad than we did last April, and a lot of young players with huge upsides. I think we got a pretty good shot to repeat.

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver

Redman was one of the best pitchers on your staff while Darren Oliver is a 5 ERA innings eater. That was the worst trade the Marlins made during the off-season in my honest opinion.

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver

Redman was one of the best pitchers on your staff while Darren Oliver is a 5 ERA innings eater. That was the worst trade the Marlins made during the off-season in my honest opinion. Redman wouldn't start in the rotation when AJ returns. Redman couldn't beat out AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano or D Train :hat The champ.

OK alot of people think that tejera and oliver suck...well let's see what happens after this season

Oliver has an 84-76 or something lifetime record. He throws 180 innings. Makes 33 starts last year. That is hardly sucky. You fools need to get a grip and an understanding of baseball. It's thoughts and posts like yours that reflect why Marlins fans are among the worst in history Agreed.

So Wild, I assume by your post you believe that "Marlins fans are among the worst in history" ?

 

And I assume you agree what Repeatin said about Fishfan25 and people here in general "You fools need to get a grip and an understanding of baseball" ?

 

Good to know what you really think of everyone here and what you think about fans generally. It clears up alot when it comes to your posts.

 

Nice company you're keeping. :thumbdown what makes you an authority? Marlins fans aren't very good. We don't have many fans. It's an area that is in need of improvement. I hope the Marlins fans become better educated and more rapid. They aren't at this point. That's what message boards are about to educate and inform and entertain and discuss the game in a civil manner, which I always strive to do. :hat The champ

 

"...discuss the game in a civil manner, which I always strive to do."

 

lololololol

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver

Redman was one of the best pitchers on your staff while Darren Oliver is a 5 ERA innings eater. That was the worst trade the Marlins made during the off-season in my honest opinion. Redman wouldn't start in the rotation when AJ returns. Redman couldn't beat out AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano or D Train :hat The champ. carl milano? he is MOST definitely better than CARL PAVANO!!!

 

He was your second best pitcher last year, better than Penny and Pavano (possibly D Train because he's more proven.) Trading him was an act of lunacy.

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver

Redman was one of the best pitchers on your staff while Darren Oliver is a 5 ERA innings eater. That was the worst trade the Marlins made during the off-season in my honest opinion. Redman wouldn't start in the rotation when AJ returns. Redman couldn't beat out AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano or D Train :hat The champ. carl milano? he is MOST definitely better than CARL PAVANO!!!

 

He was your second best pitcher last year, better than Penny and Pavano (possibly D Train because he's more proven.) Trading him was an act of lunacy. Marlins prefer Carl Milano over Redman. Carl is a superior pitcher to Redman. If you watched the playoffs, you clearly would have seen that. Also if you paid attention to the second half numbers. The FO had a chance to keep or trade Carl Milano and Red. They paid Milano 3.8 mil and made a steal of a trade, unloading Red for Neu. then with the total dollars, signed AJ and added Oliver, a brilliant move. Go Marlins. :hat The champ

Hey reaptin04 its Carl Pavano in case you didnt get the message.

Hey reaptin04 its Carl Pavano in case you didnt get the message.

when Carl marries Alyssa, it will be Carl Milano, Mensa Child. Out of the kindness of my heart, I inform you not only of the baseball facts, but of the dating habits of the players as well. You are welcome in advance of my kindness to share my vast knowledge and insights. :hat The champ

Hey reaptin04 its Carl Pavano in case you didnt get the message.

when Carl marries Alyssa, it will be Carl Milano, Mensa Child. Out of the kindness of my heart, I inform you not only of the baseball facts, but of the dating habits of the players as well. You are welcome in advance of my kindness to share my vast knowledge and insights. :hat The champ

Hey reaptin04 its Carl Pavano in case you didnt get the message.

when Carl marries Alyssa, it will be Carl Milano, Mensa Child. Out of the kindness of my heart, I inform you not only of the baseball facts, but of the dating habits of the players as well. You are welcome in advance of my kindness to share my vast knowledge and insights. :hat The champ

Actually if Alyssa Milano married Carl Pavano she become...Alyssa Milano Pavano.

Guys, PAvano/Milano/madeupname-ano is not as good as redman. you can't take one postseason and say he's better than an obviously superior pitcher.

 

Would you want sterling hitchcock on your team? He's a postseason god.

Hey reaptin04 its Carl Pavano in case you didnt get the message.

when Carl marries Alyssa, it will be Carl Milano, Mensa Child. Out of the kindness of my heart, I inform you not only of the baseball facts, but of the dating habits of the players as well. You are welcome in advance of my kindness to share my vast knowledge and insights. :hat The champ

Actually if Alyssa Milano married Carl Pavano she become...Alyssa Milano Pavano. I think hes a little thickheaded to realize when hes wrong.

 

just a tad...

Guys, PAvano/Milano/madeupname-ano is not as good as redman. you can't take one postseason and say he's better than an obviously superior pitcher.

 

Would you want sterling hitchcock on your team? He's a postseason god.

I think your overrating Redman just a bit. Hes never had a era under 4 until this year and in the 2nd half he did terrible. Hes career era is 4.27 with a whip of 1.34 and Baa of .265.

 

I think we can afford to lose him especially when Burnett comes back we shouldnt be missing him that much. From all the people we lost hes probably the least signficant from Lee, Pudge, and him.

Guys, PAvano/Milano/madeupname-ano is not as good as redman. you can't take one postseason and say he's better than an obviously superior pitcher.

If you think that Redman is "an obviously superior pitcher" to Carl Pavano. you OBVIOUSLY do not watch the marlins on a regular basis. Carl is more consistant. and has better stuff. mark Redman was helped tremendously by Pro Player this season, and most scouts have him declining this year because of his move to Oakland, despite the fact that the A's have obviously have a pitchers park as well.

 

Carl Pavano is better than mark Redman, not the other way around.

Yeah, 10 for 50, I'm happy too, but that's still really not a great reason to be included for why we got Oliver. After he gets his 4 or 5 starts til' Burnett comes back, he'll have even less chances to get that game-winning RBI.

gee, if you think pitchers can't help their cause at the plate, you are greatly mistaken. Dontrelle's bat helped him get a few wins. Obviously, Oliver was signed for his pitching. My point correctly notes Oliver provides what Redman did, for much less money. Fact that Oliver can help the team with his bat too is a plus. So really I'm not sure what your point is. Redman faded miserably and the fact remains, when AJ is ready, Redman wouldn't have cracked the rotation of Josh, Brad, Pav, D Train and AJ. So Oliver is clearly a smart signing. :hat The champ I never said pitchers CAN'T help their cause, and I never said Oliver wasn't a smart signing, but just because they may go 1-4 in a game doesn't really justify that Oliver is THAT much better than Redman. When comparing pitchers, compare their PITCHING stats. Their hitting stats shouldn't be compared, because that's not generally a big component of their repetoire. Mike Hampton is one of the only pitchers I can think of that you could make a point about their hitting being a strength. Oliver may hit .150 as compared to Redman's .029, but that's only about 6 hits difference.

Yeah, 10 for 50, I'm happy too, but that's still really not a great reason to be included for why we got Oliver.? After he gets his 4 or 5 starts til' Burnett comes back, he'll have even less chances to get that game-winning RBI.

gee, if you think pitchers can't help their cause at the plate, you are greatly mistaken. Dontrelle's bat helped him get a few wins. Obviously, Oliver was signed for his pitching. My point correctly notes Oliver provides what Redman did, for much less money. Fact that Oliver can help the team with his bat too is a plus. So really I'm not sure what your point is. Redman faded miserably and the fact remains, when AJ is ready, Redman wouldn't have cracked the rotation of Josh, Brad, Pav, D Train and AJ. So Oliver is clearly a smart signing. :hat The champ I never said pitchers CAN'T help their cause, and I never said Oliver wasn't a smart signing, but just because they may go 1-4 in a game doesn't really justify that Oliver is THAT much better than Redman. When comparing pitchers, compare their PITCHING stats. Their hitting stats shouldn't be compared, because that's not generally a big component of their repetoire. Mike Hampton is one of the only pitchers I can think of that you could make a point about their hitting being a strength. Oliver may hit .150 as compared to Redman's .029, but that's only about 6 hits difference. I never said Oliver is THAT much better than Redman. I am defending the move and saying Oliver is a nice tradeoff for Redman, who isn't as good as Carl Milano (and yes, if they marry, Carl will be known as Milano not Alyssa as a Pavano, she's the bigger star with more $$$$). I like the thinking of the front office. Instead of paying Redman 3.9, they keep Pav-lano, then with Red's cash they sign, AJ, Oliver and bring in Neu. Three pitchers all for about the same 3.9 mil Red is getting in Oakland. Plus, I still maintain that Red wouldn't crack a rotation of AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano and D Train. :hat The champ

Guys, PAvano/Milano/madeupname-ano is not as good as redman.? you can't take one postseason and say he's better than an obviously superior pitcher.

 

Would you want sterling hitchcock on your team?? He's a postseason god.

I think your overrating Redman just a bit. Hes never had a era under 4 until this year and in the 2nd half he did terrible. Hes career era is 4.27 with a whip of 1.34 and Baa of .265.

 

I think we can afford to lose him especially when Burnett comes back we shouldnt be missing him that much. From all the people we lost hes probably the least signficant from Lee, Pudge, and him. Carl PAvano career era 4.59 and era+ 93

133K 2.7 K/BB 19 HR 1.26 Whip

era last season 4.30 (era+ 94) 6.2 innings per start

12-13 WL

 

Mark Redman career era 4.29 and era+ 104

151K 12.5 K/BB 16 HR 1.22 Whip

era last season 3.59 (era+ 112) 6.6 innings per start

14-9 WL

 

I repeat, Redman IS the superior pitcher when compared to Pavano. I see this has a 100% fact, Redman has Pavano beat in EVERY catagory besides K/BB, and the difference there really isn't that much greater.. That's hard to do.

 

Give Redman the respect he deserves. Without him, you would of never won wildcard.

 

Redman after all star break: 3.94 era 7-5

Pavano after all star break: 4.14 6-3

 

Again, Redman was ALWAYS better.

I never said Redman sucked and that we would have won the world series without him. But the point I make is that Redman isnt that good and like wild card said he was helped by pro player a lot. Redman is nothing more than a fourth starter and probably Pavano is the same thing but Pavano clearly has better stuff. Pavanos only problem was staying healthy and he showed last year he can and post up nice numbers.

 

Also it helps that this was Pavano's first year healthy and he had a nice year. The last three months of the season he posted a 3.87 era and a 2.00 something era in the playoffs. While Redman posted a 4.21 era and a who knows huge era in the playoffs.

 

Pavano is also yougner at 28 while Redman is 30.

I never said Redman sucked and that we would have won the world series without him. But the point I make is that Redman isnt that good and like wild card said he was helped by pro player a lot. Redman is nothing more than a fourth starter and probably Pavano is the same thing but Pavano clearly has better stuff. Pavanos only problem was staying healthy and he showed last year he can and post up nice numbers.

 

Also it helps that this was Pavano's first year healthy and he had a nice year. The last three months of the season he posted a 3.87 era and a 2.00 something era in the playoffs. While Redman posted a 4.21 era and a who knows huge era in the playoffs.

 

Pavano is also yougner at 28 while Redman is 30.

DUDE LISTEN!

 

Pavano's numbers were worse. He's only years younger. His NUMBERS WERE ALWAYS WORSE and HE WAS EQUALLY helped by proplayers...he even gave up more HOMERS than Redman.

 

Redman is a good 3 starter. Pavano is 4 or 5.

 

PAvano's era after the all start break was 4.14!!! Redman was 3.94! Redman was better in the second half. There is no doubt in my mind that Redman was, is, and always WILL BE a better pitcher than PAvano. Nothing you can say can indicate otherwise, besides post season numbers. Unless they prove themselves over several postseasons like River or Hitchcock, that post season is irrelevant.

repeatin04, in words of stewie griffin "who in the hell do u think u are??" u come in here with the knowledge u think u have and expect everyone to listen to you cause u thought u predicted where pudge would go .i think i speak for most of us on these boards when we tell u to shut the hell up and go back where u came from... :hat the chump

Guys, PAvano/Milano/madeupname-ano is not as good as redman.? you can't take one postseason and say he's better than an obviously superior pitcher.

 

Would you want sterling hitchcock on your team?? He's a postseason god.

I think your overrating Redman just a bit. Hes never had a era under 4 until this year and in the 2nd half he did terrible. Hes career era is 4.27 with a whip of 1.34 and Baa of .265.

 

I think we can afford to lose him especially when Burnett comes back we shouldnt be missing him that much. From all the people we lost hes probably the least signficant from Lee, Pudge, and him. Carl PAvano career era 4.59 and era+ 93

133K 2.7 K/BB 19 HR 1.26 Whip

era last season 4.30 (era+ 94) 6.2 innings per start

12-13 WL

 

Mark Redman career era 4.29 and era+ 104

151K 12.5 K/BB 16 HR 1.22 Whip

era last season 3.59 (era+ 112) 6.6 innings per start

14-9 WL

 

I repeat, Redman IS the superior pitcher when compared to Pavano. I see this has a 100% fact, Redman has Pavano beat in EVERY catagory besides K/BB, and the difference there really isn't that much greater.. That's hard to do.

 

Give Redman the respect he deserves. Without him, you would of never won wildcard.

 

Redman after all star break: 3.94 era 7-5

Pavano after all star break: 4.14 6-3

 

Again, Redman was ALWAYS better. Redman isn't better than Carl Milano. The team feels Milano is about to become the pitcher he was supposed to be. Last year he was injury free for the first time. Great things are expected. Two years in a row, Redman had deadarm late. Face it Marlins aren't World champs without Milano stepping up at SF in Game 2 of that series. Milano dominated the Yankees in Game 4 and would have beaten Rocket had Urbina not choked. Redman had one career year. Power pitchers are more important than finesse guys. Redman was as good as he is going to be last year. Marlins front office knows that Milano is better that's why they dealt Redman. Team decided which of the two to keep, they kept Milano. Smart move. Sorry, but you are proven wrong by me and the front office. When you put together a world series title team, you can dispute the front office. Until then, your opinion is groundless. Clear decision on this argument to the front office over you. Milano over Red. :hat The champ