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I just posted my thoughts on another thread, but the more I think about it, the more I think its true. There are essentially 4 parties in this country. A "Christian Conservative" "Business" "Labor" and "Liberal." The two parties, Republicans and Democrats, split those among themselves, an act the Republicans have as of '94 been much better at. Purely academically, I wonder if everyone would be better served by a split. The creation of coalition governments would get all the issues out. Primarily because everyone would have to work with at least one other party, and thus cut down the hatred between the two parties (and this bring everyone closer to center). Just my opinion.

The challenge that faces the DNC is how to unite the party. The republicans have done an excellent job mixing the "Christian Conservatives" and the businessmen. The DNC has the 'true' liberals and then labor. They have NOT been able to reconcile those two when the Republican machine attacks, because it is not a natural union. But what they should try is get out of the big cities and the northeast. Look for leaders more popular with Labor, and less with the liberals. The idea is that no way would a true liberal ever vote republican, and could in turn take away some votes from midwest states.

I live in Gainesville so let me give my 2 cents. Most people around here are screaming for Spurrier. But I don't think he'll be offered the job, a job I believe he covets. But there is another name in the mix. He may not be available, but there are whispers of Butch Davis. If he is fired, or even allowed to interview at the end of the season, I think he may be tempted to coming back to college. Of that list only Meyer is a strong possibility.

I'm not a huge Dolphins fan. Baseball, and Hockey are my big sports. But this is getting ridiculous. Fire Speilman now. Hire Randy Mueller. We got no chance at Pirolo, and this is the next best man. Best of all he's available now. But we keep dave until the end of the year. Let Mueller pick his own man. Anyway Wayne doesn't like firing anybody, and firing 2 people (dave and the interim) would be a lot to ask.

You basic premise is incorrect. Loria did not "ruin" his previous franchise. The blame squarely falls on the shoulders of the (previous) ownership group who, to a man, ran the team as if it was broken toy, thrown in the back of a kid's closet. And like a child, when they didn't get what they wanted they pouted and blamed everyone but themselves. 602169[/snapback] I'm not critizing what Loria has done here, I think he's the best owner we have ever had (not much competition). But I'll trust the Expos fans that they know when it all went downhill. They blame Loria.

Two men who ruin their former franchises, get a presidential pardon by Mr Selig. Henry takes over one of the most valuable franchises in the game after ruining the Marlins. Loria for no reason other than being one of "Selig's Boys" gets the Marlins. Even in our sorry state we were a vast improvement over Montreal. Now both will have World Series rings with their new teams. Hmm...

Why don't people understand that in baseball you can't fall in love with anyone? As soon as you start declining you are history. 595347[/snapback] The fans certainly can fall and do "in love" with a player. Thats happened throughout baseball history. FO can't, but should value popular players regardless of production. Also remember that we don't play a game until april. So during this time when most of the season tickets are sold, winning doesn't matter, only PR.

Take it with a grain of salt. I don't doubt the basics, but Beradino has a nasty tendency to over dramatize everything, As far as being the Expos south, yeah we became that when all of Henry's people were fired and Loria's people brought over. But don't doubt they haven't learned from their mistakes. We've had two pretty good seasons after all. Only problem, is we are stuck in a bottom-third market, with no stadium. I said it in a previous post, that if I was a betting man I would bet against us getting the stadium done this year. No way the State will pay $30M with so much hurricane damage to pay for. Loria and Samson have got to know the same thing.

If we lose Beni as most of us are predicting, what's to keep us doing a closer by committee. We have at least 3 players that can take the role, at least part time, but all three have had battles with inconsitency. Koch of course depends on him being resigned, and Spooney on his injury recovery. Regardless, it could work. What do you think?

This is a basic lineup. Their are some holes to fill, none are big ones though. I kind of like the idea of bringing back some of the guys we developed for the bench and bullpen spots. Guys like Meadows, Dunwoody (Japan last I heard), et al. Don't know their availability though so I didn't fill it out. I think we should trade Pierre if we feel that his loss wouldn't kill morale. He's very overrated in my opinion. Total Cost 90 Million C: Lo Duca 1st: Cabrera 2nd: Castillo 3rd: Lowell SS: Sea Bass RF: Enc (at a fair salary) CF: Beltran LF: SP1: Pavs SP2: Beckett SP3: Burnett SP4: Willis SP5: CL: Beni SU1: Mota SU2: Spooney MR1: MR2: MR3: LR: Bench: Conine Bench: Easley Bench: Mordi Bench: Bench:

What makes anybody think we can unload him for even as much as we got last year (almost nothing). He had a bad year, and has a monster salary. I'm reading all these threads on how we should trade him or this guy or another. Reality is that if we can get a minor leaguer and not take on a major salary we will be very forunate. My opinion is that he'll be in RF opening day next year.

With Mike I really believe its not all about the money. But by playing this year with the fish he might still become a FA next year. 3years for 24M or equally 2 years at 16M might not be on the table then. He knows were he is at physically, and then the family issues that we really can't guess on. I want him to be a fish for life (except for the few with the Yanks). He deserves a bit of a premium, even if we really cant afford to give it to him.

Peter? Who's Peter? Never heard of him :dork . Just in case you have a good evening too Jon.

I was talking to my aunt who works at the state capitol. Basically, she said that the hurricane's have and will continue to drain our economy. Both by decreased revenues (tourism) and increased costs (cleanup). The sum of it is that the Legislature is unlikely to pay the $30M gap this year. Unfortunately there isn't much more to report on this front. It would be nice to see a story on this in one of the local papers.

Don't be so fast to dismiss Cheney. I think Edwards will win, but Cheney is the calm confident politican, if he can rile Edwards with some half-turth, Edwards will go full scale trial lawyer on him. That doesn't look as good in a presidential debate as it does in a courtroom.

I don't like the fact that he's annoyed, but I don't blame him either. It won't effect the fans. The people who might listen are players who may want out, or may not seriously consider us as a FA. He's hurting the team, and last time I checked you are not supposed to do that.

Its not AJ's fault, this team would sell out in most MLB cities. Few baseball players understand the socioeconomic factors surrounding towns. But I've said it before and I'll say it again. To get great (25k+) and sustained attendance numbers, you need to have an economy where business wants to buy season tickets, as 'encouragement' for customers. Few cities have the dedicated base that fans want to go to 81 games a year, let alone can afford them. Adding insult to injury we are one of the (3rd but don't quote me) poorest median income of major league cities. We don't have the business, we don't have the fan base, and we don't have the money to give this team what it deserves. But we can sustain a longterm Major League presence (unlike Milwaukee, ugh). Back in 1993 and '94 when Tropicana was vacant I was telling my friends that we should play half our games there. Of course that is now mout but if only someone listened to me two teams (us and Tampa Bay, which wouldn't exist) could be sparred such small income.

As the great optimist I am, at least we still got the Dolphins and Panthers. :lol

Well The Cubs have officailly Pissed me off about them not wanting to come down on Sept. 20th is compeltly stupid they are soooo Greedy they just want to have all 6 Games at their Home Wrigley Field and Mckean Knows it 543564[/snapback] The way I understand it they will be coming down the 20th, for a doubleheader, just a straight one not split. I don't blame them for this. But MLB won't let them come down on the 4th. Now for not coming down on Thursday is a completely different story. They should have come.

Here is a better Article Chicago Tribune By Paul Sullivan Tribune staff reporter September 4, 2004, 9:35 PM CDT After postponing Sunday's finale of the Cubs series because of Hurricane Frances, the Florida Marlins are likely to play a home game at Wrigley Field on Friday as part of a rescheduled doubleheader. The other two games of the postponed series are likely to be played as a doubleheader Sept. 20 in Miami, the only shared off day the two teams have the rest of the season. An official announcement is expected Sunday, as both teams and Major League Baseball negotiate details. "We have no definitive schedule on when those [three games] might be," Cubs President Andy MacPhail said Saturday. "A lot of scenarios have been bounced back and forth. I can't tell you for certain which one it's going to be because there are a lot of people who have some voice in this issue, least of all the visiting club." Cubs players will agree to accept playing a doubleheader Sept. 20 in Miami, according to player representative Mark Prior. Players from both teams are allowed to vote on it because of a stipulation in the collective bargaining agreement with Major League Baseball preventing teams from playing on more than 20 consecutive days. "Under normal circumstances, I don't think there would be any way guys would agree to that," Prior said. "But given the season and the way our schedule and their schedule is ? I think [the Marlins] might have it even tougher. It's kind of a give and take. They're going to be put in a tough situation, and we're going to be put in a tough situation." Cubs players, however, would not accept a split doubleheader in Miami that would allow the Marlins to have two gates. The Cubs are concerned about unnecessary time between games because they have a night game Sept. 21 in Pittsburgh. "That would definitely be something, as players, we would balk at," Prior said. "We're going to be coming from Cincinnati. We have no intention of spending 12 hours down there to play a 1 o'clock game and a 6 o'clock game. "Especially since I would expect those games to be tight, we can go to extra innings in one of those ballgames, and that could make for a long trip. I don't expect us to play a split doubleheader, based on time." The Marlins have a doubleheader against Montreal on Sept. 14, so if doubleheaders are rescheduled for Sept. 10 and 20, that would give them two in five days (seven games overall) and three in 11 days (14 games). MacPhail agreed such a scenario would be "onerous under any circumstances." Playing a twin bill on Sept. 20 would give the Cubs four games in three cities in three days, so it won't be easy for either team. "It's not ideal," MacPhail said. "It's not great, but then again, you don't have great choices available to you." Though Florida general manager Admin Beinfest said Friday the Marlins would not play a rescheduled home game on the road, Commissioner Bud Selig is expected to invoke the "best interests of the game" clause in the agreement if the Marlins balk. Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said the final decision is MLB's to make, not the Cubs' or Marlins'. "Jim Hendry and Admin Beinfest, in the end, probably won't have a whole lot to say about it," Hendry said. MLB would decide whether the Marlins will have the final at-bat in any rescheduled game at Wrigley, though MacPhail and Prior agreed the Marlins should bat last in a "home" game at Wrigley. "Fair is fair," MacPhail said. In a rescheduled game Aug. 18 in San Francisco,, Montreal not only gave up a home game but was forced to bat first in a ruling by MLB, which owns the franchise. That gave the Giants 82 home games and a slight advantage in the five-team wild-card chase, though they split the doubleheader that included that game. The idea of rescheduling two games and waiting for the end of the regular season to play the third game on Oct. 4, if necessary, apparently was shot down by MLB, which already is looking at potential tiebreaking scenarios for the wild wild-card scramble. "I'm sure they're going to jealously guard the Oct. 4 open date because we now have five teams within 2? games of one postseason berth," MacPhail said. The tentative doubleheader in Wrigley Field would be a "straight" doubleheader in which fans get two games for the price of one. Prior, who lost the locally infamous Game 6 of the National League Championship Series to Florida last October, is likely to get the first crack against the Marlins in starting Game 1 of the doubleheader. The rematch of the NLCS is one of the more anticipated series of the season. "It's almost kind of a benefit to the fans," Prior said. "They get a free ballgame if you have tickets." Copyright ? 2004, The Chicago Tribune

It's 30 games in just 27 days BY CLARK SPENCER Count the Florida Marlins among those who wished Hurricane Frances never happened. The storm demolished a crucial weekend showdown with the Chicago Cubs at Pro Player Stadium, and it cast doubts on the Marlins' late-season scramble to make it back to the playoffs and defend their World Series title. By forcing the postponement of today's game with the Cubs to make it a clean sweep of the scheduled three-game series, Frances left the Marlins in a tough predicament as they try to make up the 2 ?-game gap with front-running Chicago in the National League wild-card race. The Marlins are now confronted with the imposing task of playing 30 games, including three doubleheaders, over the final 27 days of the regular season. ''It pales in comparison to the devastation that this hurricane has had,'' said Marlins president David Samson on Saturday after the storm knocked out the power in his home. ``It was a situation that no one could control. You can't argue against Mother Nature, or get upset about it.'' While no make-up dates for the lost Chicago series have been announced, it is expected the Marlins will make up one of their ''home'' games in a Friday doubleheader at Wrigley Field when they head to the Windy City for a four-game series next weekend. MAKE-UP GAMES According to sources, the other two make-up games would be played Sept. 20 at Pro Player as part of a doubleheader and require the Cubs to make a quick, one-day excursion to South Florida in the midst of a three-city trip to Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and New York. The Marlins would prefer to play a split, day-night doubleheader. The Cubs are opposed to that idea, saying they want the games to be played back-to-back. ''A split would be something as players that we would balk to,'' Cubs pitcher and team player representative Mark Prior told reporters in Chicago on Saturday. ``We have no intention of spending 12 hours down there, playing a 1 o'clock game and a 6 o'clock game. I would expect those games to be tight, and they could go extra innings. That could make for a long trip.'' The Marlins already have a Sept. 14 doubleheader scheduled with the Montreal Expos to make up for a rainout earlier in the season. ''We'll get through it,'' said Marlins manager Jack McKeon while trying to remain upbeat. ``We won't even think about it. We'll pick it right up.'' The Marlins were riding a seven-game winning streak when Frances rolled in. But the hurricane has forced McKeon's hand with regard to his starting pitching rotation. While bunkered down inside Pro Player Stadium on Saturday after being forced to evacuate his Hallandale Beach condo, McKeon said he'll have to turn to a sixth starter to get through the schedule. The candidates could include Nate Bump, Justin Wayne and Michael Tejera. ''It's all right,'' McKeon said. ``It'll work out.'' RIDING OUT STORM McKeon has spent the past two days riding out the hurricane inside the Marlins clubhouse at Pro Player Stadium, as have coaches Bill Robinson and Doug Davis and pitchers Josh Beckett, Armando Benitez, Rudy Seanez and Ben Howard. All were forced to evacuate their beachfront residences. ''We're all a happy family down here, living it up, watching TV,'' McKeon joked. ``We've even got the [clubhouse] cook here.'' McKeon said he and the players have made makeshift beds out of clubhouse sofas and training room examination tables. 'I called my wife [in North Carolina] last night and she said `I guess you're a happy man,' '' McKeon said. 'I said why? She said because `you finally get to sleep in the clubhouse. You spend all your time there anyway.' '' McKeon said he is hoping to gather the rest of the Marlins, who haven't played since Thursday and are scheduled to open a three-game series at home Tuesday with the Mets, for a Monday workout. ''We'd like to if we can round everybody up,'' McKeon said. The hurricane made it impossible to play any games. The Marlins were hoping to squeeze in one game. But those plans went out the door when the storm stalled east of Palm Beach County instead of passing quickly. Samson spent the day on the phone conferring with Cubs president Andy MacPhail and Major League Baseball officials to work out a solution. Samson's power went out as he was talking to MacPhail. ''Our obvious preference would have been to play all our games at Pro Player,'' Samson said of future make-up games. ``But when the hurricane slowed down, Mother Nature gave us no choice. This is a devastating weather event that is causing a ton of damage. So the fact that we lost three home games, or that we have to play them later, or even play them at Wrigley Field, pales in comparison to everyone else.'' Looks like the Marlins won't get a choice in the matter.

Just bite your tongue while rooting. Its less painful :lol

He'll be on the team next year, hopefully he will get back to his career averages. He will always be overpriced but he should be productive. This has been a very bad year for him, and a change of scenery wasn't enough, an offseason might be.

It certainly would help him take over the world :lol

Ok Conine has been on recently, I was venting my frustration with him and the team in general. I don't see how Enc can be moved, Conine can (although I really would rather see him retire here). As for Jack, last year he inherited a hungry team. He just made them believe they could win. He's been very good at this throughout his career. But what he has rarely done is create that hunger, and get the team fired up. I don't know if replacing him is the real answer, but I do think it is a legit criticism of his managing. It should at least trigger an off-season evaluation by Beinfest and Samson. On all the boards I read a lot of talk about last year we won with this or that. But I don't think it's simply recreating the team we had last year. We won playing Small Ball, with a relatively low OBP from our Leadoff hitters. The middle of the lineup almost always seemed to drive in the runs that were sitting on base. These are conditions that are difficult to recreate, even before considering the personnel changes. We need to tweak the formula, move away from an over-reliance of Pierre and Castillo and find more players who can drive in runs. Maybe LoDuca is the answer, but I don't think he is. In my opinion there is a reason most teams stockpile homerun guys, and it isn't the fans fascination with the HR either. Fans rather win, and homerun guys give hope. Even when a homerun isn't hit, late in the game when we are down the presence of a 40HR player makes everybody a little more on edge, maybe believe a little more. That?s also why I suggested RF or 1st base as potential changes. Production wise SS is a bigger liability but getting a SS with power is a premium compared to 1st or OF.