HawkFan

If the Rays want to be successful in the TB area, they'll need to move to fairground area of Tampa. Then they can get more of the Orlando area fans and still draw the Tampa/St. Pete fans. I know taking that extra 45-60 minutes off of the drive and traffic would greatly increase my willingness to attend Rays games (at least ones not played by the Marlins or Red Sox). I'm there with you on that, buddy.

I haven't tried Sir Pizza yet, but square slices and crumbled pepperoni sounds a lot like that the "pizza" (and I use that term loosely) they used to serve in the school cafeteria back in the day. The cheese was like plastic and I'm sure it was pumped full of presvatives and artificial flavoring, but damn they were delicious.

You could have stopped right there. There's no need for empirical data, the current brand was obviously a total failure. Loria proved it by winning a WS and then spending money he didn't have to try to win again. Result? Crummy attendance and a salary dump. I have no doubt that somewhere along the line, maybe many times, he spent a few bucks on surveys of what people think about the Marlins, but they probably didn't tell him anything he didn't already know. It's not at all surprising that they are going all-out for a totally new start. The old model didn't work and had no chance of working in the future. That leaves no good business reason to retain any aspect AT ALL of the old Marlin's failed business model. Well, perhaps Billy, although I wouldn't be surprised if he's history. It's almost a certainty that the stupid fat guys are gone. Maybe the stupid cheerleaders, too. People can and will bitch about this, that or the other thing. I applaud Loria for figuring out the existential problem and doing something big about it. Sit on your hands and you die in any business. Baseball isn't immune. So you're saying the Marlins are a failed brand because of their identity? Really? The chronic losing, salary dumps, frequent rainouts and poor baseball venue had absolutely nothing to do with the Marlins past failures? I applaud Loria and co. for succeeding where Wayne and Henry failed: securing the Marlins long-term survival in South Florida with a new ballpark. However, the Marlins' existential problem (a self-perpetuated cycle of low revenue, low payroll and parting with our young players before they get too expensive, losing because of the cosntant rebooting of the roster and low attendance leading to low revenue) theoretically will be solved in the new ballpark WITHOUT a rebranding. Look, I understand the DESIRE on Loria's part for a rebrand, I just question the NEED for it. If the brand itself was a failure, the team would have rebranded long before now (as the Rays have done twice already). If no one liked the Marlins current identity, no one would buy ther merchandise, the stores wouldn't stock it and no one would wear it. Is that happening now? Absolutely not, not even all the way up here. That's a really goofy example. Not only do you not know what motivated her recognition, but it wasn't even any actually-used logo that she recognized. She saw a "baseball" cap with the letter F and a Marlin on it, and she figured out it was a Marlins cap - that's not exactly what I'd call a stunning example of widespread brand recognition. Not to mention, she appears to have been interested because she heard about the new logo and the rebranding. In your own words, you just proved my point. The current identity is strong and unique enough where non-fans away from a team's home market are able to recognize it as such based on a few key characteristics. I guess you missed the part in my post where I said what about it she recognized: the teal (though technically she did say aqua) and the fish on the letter (which is clearly a a type of billed-fish, even if it's slightly stylized and not entirely icthiotomically correct). The whole point of a logo is that it's easily recongizable as such. Our new one? Not so much. The "Marlin" itself looks more like a dab of Crest toothpaste, and is barely recognizable as a Marlin to fans. I doubt

How much brand equity does this team really have now? I'm not saying they'll have more with the changes; but, they are not a nationally-respected franchise, and they aren't even widely embraced in Florida. You may not like the overhaul, but I think the idea of rebranding, all other things equal, was a good one. While I don't have any empirical data to back my hypothesis, I would argue we have plenty of brand equity to build on. 18 seasons and 2 World Series Championships are worth something. I've been seeing more and more fish hats being worn up here in Central Florida,and I have to believe the Marlins have been around long enough where people recognize the logo and colors when they see them, even up here. Heck, I was at the store the other day while wearing my '00 BP hat, the one with the teal "M" alternate logo. The cashier asked me if that was the Marlins' new logo. I said no, and then asked her if she was a fan. It turns out she didn't even like baseball, but that she. had heard about the leak on someone's twitter feed. So, a college-aged woman in Orlando, who doesn't like the sport, let alone the team, was able to recognize the Marlins from a 10 year-old alternate logo how? The basic layout of the fish on the letter and the color scheme. If these relatively isolated incidents occur up here, I have to believe the Marlins are missing the boat here. Surely there's not so much apathy in the Miami area that people down there don't wear Marlins heat, or recognize it as such that the whole brand had to be aborted.

Overreacting? Perhaps. But I've spent thousands of dollars on Marlins memorabilia and for clothing over the years and completely decorated my den in Marlins crap, so I overreacted when I became a fan in the first place. Just like politics, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. The logo, colors, uniforms and overall identity might not truly be as bad as I'm dreading/expecting. However, I believe many of you aren't looking at it objectively either. Take your "305" goggles off and try looking at this from an objective, non-Marlins fan point of view. I think the middle ground, will end up being most people will apprecite the new look for being unique and daring when MLB seems to be going for a homogenized look. However, outside of the So.FL and fashion cap crowd the team seems to be going after, the rest aren't going to be buying this stuff because I doesn't fit the majority of the population's design aesthetic. I still question the need for such a dramatic overhaul of the team's identity. If Loria and co are looking to reinvigorate interest in the team, doesn't moving to a beautiful, brand-new ballpark, changing the team name to reflect their new location and investing more money into hopefully a winning team accomplish that without completely overhauling the identity? It seems silly, and stupid from a business perspective to shun 20 years of brand equity just for the sake of being new and different.

You'll never ever buy new merch? You'll be watching the team in 2035 and only ever wear 30-year-old jerseys? Unless they release throwback merchandise, I know I'll be wearing my current stuff until it falls apart. My parents were set to buy me all of the new stuff when it was released for a late birthday present; when I saw the leaked logo and realized the direction our identity was going in, I instructed them not to. Gone will be my Marlins license plate of 15 years and my Marlins BoA Credit Card I've had almost as long. I'm still going to be a Marlins fan, but I'm done supporting them financially in terms of merchandise and licensing. I will not be associated with something so garrish and hideous as the direction we're going in.

To me, it's even worse than the original version.

Plus, it was a fan vote... presuming the voting was legit, you can't fault a fan vote... its not like Samson himself went out and picked that all-time lineup Yes, you can if the fans that voted him in were wrong.

It was pretty cool being there in person for it. Nice size crowd too. Conine taking off in the helicopter with the WS flags was a nice touch. It's a shame we loss, but it didn't matter. I had a blast taunting Werth though. Werthless?

Going to my first regular season game in '95 against the Padres and catching a Foul ball Attending Louis Castillo and Billy McMillon's MLB debuts. Attending Andre Dawson night. Attending Mike Lowell's Marlins debut. Taking my son to his first game in 07 against the Twins. Andre was signing autographs before the game (my little guy getting his ball signed is in my signature). The actual lineup card from the dugout from that game is now proudly hanging on the wall of my Marlins room and has been signed by many of the players listed on the card.

Too bad Seaquest DSV picked 2010 instead of 2012 :thumbup I like the blue white logo in the avatar Yeah, well the possibility of life imitatating art was dashed the moment Loria and co dropped the teal pinstripes and lettering.

Unfortunately, between work and my son's karate and music classes and cub scouts, I cannot make it down for the final game. Kind of bummed, but at least I was able to attend my first opening day at sun life this year. Anyways, I was wondering if someone going today can do me a favor- take some pictures of the concession price boards? I want to do a quantitative analysis of a few things when the new stadium opens, and inflation in food and drink prices is one of the areas I want to look at. Thanks!

It's called re-branding. This is essentially a new franchise. They haven't done squat for the last 8 years. Not as bad as the the Cubs for the last 100+ years, but they may as well be an expansion team. Not a bad idea. Fresh start. Rarely has a team ever gotten that sort of opportunity without moving to another city. Most of them build stadiums in the parking lot next door. We got lucky. Stir up a little controversy with the total break with the "old Marlins". No teal, no actual hat or uniform depiction of a Marlin other than an minimalist, impressionistic version and the home-run version of leaping Marlins. Lots of Miami. The skyline from the stadium, for instance. New stadium. New look. New hope for the future. Maybe you don't buy it, but the people with dollars love it as demonstrated by premium ticket sales. THAT'S the only thing that counts and allows them to spend serious money on players. I disagree, they are not a new franchise. As I so eloquently stated, the team is still the Marlins. It doesn't matter where they're located, they're the same team. I fully support modifying the name to be the Miami Marlins as the city and county are ponying up the majority of the cash and the team should have been named that from the start; naming them the Florida Marlins was gimmicky, and while it brought a large number of fans outside of SoFL (like me), it failed to catch on widly accross the state like it was meant to. I also get the fresh start angle, so the desire for an updated logo and uniform set is understandable. However, I think it's foolish to completely trash the brand equity the Marlins have built up in 20 years for the sake of a fresh start. The logo is recognizable as the Marlins to marginal fans and non-fans alike, and that takes time to build. With such a radical change, it's going to take the Marlins a long time to get back where they were because this new identity has absolutely no connection to the previous one. I believe they could have done a much metter job blending the team's past with their future and yielded something far superior than this. I don't have so much a problem with the art deco "M" or the colors so much as the complete marginalization of the Marlin itself. Those businesses buying the premium seats you mentioned- they've been doing so by being sold on the stadium itself w/o the logo, as the majority of them were sold out a long time ago before the first whiffs of the logo leaked. They're moving down the road, not 500 miles away. History will still be there. The same players will still be there. Billy will still be there. Anyone who dumps the team because of a new logo and the insertion of "Miami" needs to get their priorities in check. I believe you missed the boat on my post. While I think there was a guy that said he was doing so earlier in thread, that's not me. I love this team and have far too much invested in it (emotionially and finacially) to jump ship because of a new logo, no matter how hideous it is. That's as silly a notion as Broward fans vowing to not go to games now that the stadium's another 20 minutes to the south or fans in Miami Dade suddenly supporting the team in droves because the stadium's in their back yard and the team is now calledf the Miami Marlins as opposed to the Florida Marlins.

If changing his name is the only thing he did wrong, then he'll be back soon enough. I'm sure the Feds will have something to say about this as he obtained a Visa under false pretenses, which last time I checked was fraud. Using a false name to obtain a VISA I would think would be frowned upon much moire than changing your birthdate, especially in this post-9/11 climate.

ILMSF is correct, I saw a commercial saying it was at 8 pm Tuesday on ESPN proper.

Personally as an "outsider," I couldn't give Billy's behind about the Broward vs Miami/Dade debate. For pretty much everyone outside of SoFL, everything "down there" is considered Miami, anyways. That being said, what really is "Miami" in terms of design? It is such an International, multi-cultural city with a mishmosh of architecture, cuisine, music and fashion that it is impossible to distill the idea of "Miami" down into a single aesthetic. That fact is evident in this abomination that was leaked (if it indeed turns out to be the true logo). Art Deco "M?" Check. Bright, multiple-colored splashes? Check. High-design, abstract Marlin? Check. The problem is, these competing and clashing elements of "Miami" really stand on their own and do not blend, and it is no small wonder how the city doesn't split apart at the seams because of it. The new logo reflects the city quite well, as it doesn't mesh into a cohesive ideal, either. While this might reflect the spirit of Miami, it makes for poor design and a confused brand identity. To me, Loria and co. are so drunk about going "all in" on "Miami," that they're doing so to the exclusion of everything (and everyone) else. Look at the commercials for the new ballpark: "It's a ballpark built by Miamians for Miamians, that reflects the spirit of Miami." As a franchise-long Marlins fan living in Orlando, am I not welcome in the ballpark? Do you have to show your Miami/Dade Driver's License in order to purcahse tickets? Look at the purported jerseys, where both the home and road jersey's will say "Miami" and not "Marlins." Hell, look at the the logo itself, where the "M" for Miami dominates and the Marlin itself is much smaller than the current one (not to mention is so abstract to the point it's unrecognizable as a Marlin). It's even been rumored by those that have seen them on the CCSL forums the sleeve patch is a palm tree to mirror the city flag. It's sad to see the Marlin being completely marginalized by this regime. I'm sorry, but we're all MARLINS fans, not of FLORIDA, MIAMI or wherever they would have ended up. Completely dumping 20 years of Marlins identity not only alienates a large portion of the fanbase that has supported them all these years, but it makes poor business sense. Yes, the merchandise will sell well initially because it's new and because it will say "Miami." However, they could have had a big, steaming dog turd as the logo (which is essentially what we got) and people in Miami/Dade still would gobble it up simple becauser it said "Miami." But long-term sales outside of Miami/Dade I predict will dry up, and that is incredibly short-sighted on ownership's part if they're looking for a long-term, profitable product.

Take it for what it's worth, but the image below is now posted in that thread... It could grow on me. So could a fungus or tumor.

I just vomited. I don't actually mind the design of the "M, just don't like how the yellow is so prominent. The marlin is a complete joke, and it looks tagged on. I've officially purchased my last bit of Marlins merchandise.

Got to see a free advance screening of Moneyball last week. Let me tell you, I really enjoyed this film. It was well-written, for the most part well-acted (Brad Pitt was his usual self, but Jonah Hill was excellent) and was actually suprisingly funny. The whole theater was laughing throughtout the movie (not to say it's a comedy, though), and judging by the crowd's reaction afterwards, everyone seemed to enjoy it. I believe it captured the spirit of the book pretty well, showing the diametrically opposed stances of the scouts and statiticians for the uninitiated. The actual stat talk is minimal to avoid turning away people that have no idea what OBP is. Note, they also skip a lot in the book, they added a few things that weren't and Paul DePodesta is replaced by a ficitional character (I'm sure due to legal reasons). Most puzzling, the "Big 3" are barely on screen, and the movie gives the impression Billy Beane came to his epiphany by accident inbetween th '01 and '02 seasons, though it started in '99 when Sandy Alderson was the GM and Beane was the AGM. Plus, there are two scenes of interest to Marlins fans. 1) Billy Beane negotiating with Dave Dombrowki to trade Carlos Pena and force Art Howe's hand into putting in Scott Hatteberg at 1B and 2) Billy Beane's vist to Fenway when John Henry offered him the richest GM deal in sports history to be the Sox's GM. Overall, I think any Baseball fan will love it, and non-fans should enjoy it as well. My wife...tollerates baseball, but really liked Moneyball m,uch to her surprise. Of course, that might just have been Brad Pitt....

So many people know people who work for the Marlins. Ask them to sneak a picture. :glare The "I know someone who knows someone" stories are usually taken for what they're worth, but knowing Loria's crappy taste in art, I have no doubt in my mind that they'll be wearing a multi-colored piece of crap next year. Huh? How much is the homerun design and how much is just a picture around it? That is, those "people" and the stars, clouds and long yellow q-tips are nothing, right?? I remember when this design was first announced two years ago, there was a brief CGI video of it in action on one of the newspaper's websites (which has since been taken down). The structure itself looked exactly as it does in this painting, with the exception of the green and yellow swirls/fireworks above the top Marlins. If I remember the video correctly, each "tier" was going to pop up, bottom to top, in sequence. The pelicans tilted from side to side as if they were "flying" and the marlins "swam" from once side of the structure to the other. The small light bulbs around the structure blink, simulating motion like Christmas lights. Granted, it was just a computer rendering, but I do not have high hopes for this thing being anythign other than an embarassment. I get it, it's supposed to be reminiscent of an old-time carnival/penny arcade game. Perhaps in one of the traditional or Neo-classical stadiums it would work fine, but it's an eyesore in our modern/futuristic stadium. I fail to see how it connects in any way to the Marlins, Miami or even baseball.

So many people know people who work for the Marlins. Ask them to sneak a picture. :glare The "I know someone who knows someone" stories are usually taken for what they're worth, but knowing Loria's crappy taste in art, I have no doubt in my mind that they'll be wearing a multi-colored piece of crap next year. Huh? I audibly groan every time I see that. We have this awesome, modern stadium and will have this monstrocity in CF popping up practically every time Stanton comes up to bat. We're going to be the laughing stock of baseball (though, I think we already are, so why change now?) I mean, why the hell are there pelicans and sea gulsl on this? We're the f-ing Marlins, yet there are only 3 on there along with 7 birds.

Do any of the season ticket holders on the board have any of these communications from the Marlins that they can scan or post a photo of?

Did we not have to make a 40 man roster move, then? Or did moving Cousins to the 60 day take care of that?

In all of my dread about about looking like the Muts w/ Blue and Orange or a pack of skittles w/ the Stadium Logo tip, I didn't stop to realize a possible Orange, Blue and silver color scheme would play homage to the original Miami Marlins. I suppose I could support that decision over time, especially in lieu of the non-teal alternatives, though it's incredibly ridiculous to mirror the color scheme of an in-divisional rival no matter your intentions.

The DMV will have to rip my Florida Marlins tag off my Prius over my cold, dead body. I've had it on my vehicle since my first car in '96, and am not thrilled at the possibility of replacing it w/ a Miami Marlins tag (part sentimental memories and part very real concerns over the new logo and colors). Seeing that I live in Central Florida and see more Rays tags than Fish, it took about a year before they switched to the new logo. However, my dad's had a Dolphins plate for years and when they updated the logo, they sent him a replacement plate within a month or two. I think the Miami update will be determined by how many existing Florida tags the state has left in stock and demand for the updated plate. Considering they were ranked 73 / 118 in circulation for 2010 w/ 2620, and are actually 500 behind the Rays, I imagine it will take roughly the same amoutn of time. However, the Orlando Magic aren't too much ahead of the Marlins (ranked 64 w/ 4043 tags in circulation) and the tag appears to have the updated workmark they unveiled prior to last season. Who knows. Note the new Magic tag appears to deviate substanitally from the design of the past Magic tags and the other pro sports tags, as it has dropped the solid color bar at the bottom w/ team name and has a snazy background blow-up of the logo. If the Marlins' new logo isn't something that will make be barf every time I see it, and they go with this design for the updated plate, I might just have to revise my earlier statement about my Florida tag. Also, for those that want to pick up a "Florida" Marlins plate for their collection before they're gone forever, the state does sell Samples, I believe, for $30 or so.