DMoney82

Maybe last year was the roided-up super catcher year? Dude has some big arms.

The more the O's play "hard to get" the better. That article showed that the O's know the market, and aren't going to cave in to Guerrero's demands. Maybe they haggle themselves right into a range that Loria can compete with. Hopefully, the Marlins didn't put all their eggs into the stadium-clause basket. Maybe that's why the special money is being dug up?

I hope Miggy is keeping on a weight-gain plan down there with the Tigres. We saw his opposite-field power this year, imagine how it would be if he bulked up to Manny-like proportions? He certainly has the frame.

What the hell? He may be 38, but he was good enough to make up for the loss of Lowell last season, and help deliver us a championship. He keeps himself in better shape than anyone on the team, and I didn't see him have too many durability concerns or even production drop-off last year. Hell, he was playing as good as anybody when the World Series ended. All the great franchises in baseball are more than a logo. Their names are attached to great players, great moments, stadiums, curses, whatever. We have the championships and that's pretty much it. Conine is the only player who can be identified with the Marlins. After being a big in the SoFla community, showcasing the teal to the world with an All-Star game MVP, and being a huge part of two World Series wins, he earned the title Mr. Marlin. He's worth what we're paying in production, and maybe twice as much in franchise value.

I second that. He is the closest thing we have to Marlin tradition. I hope we can see Conine retire as a Marlin, and his jersey be retired next to the two (more?) World Championship banners.

I just want us to make an offer. Until we do, it's all speculation. All the comments on our money, or lack there of, are speculation. I just want to see us come with an offer. If we don't, and he signs with the O's, it will tell me that we have been wasting time. Hopefully, the delay with Vlad involves him holding out for a Marlins offer. And even more hopefully, we have been working round the clock to come up with enough money while not neglecting our bullpen concerns. I just hope we come up with some kind of offer tomorrow. Just let us have some closure.

To be fair to Gammons, he was the first guy I can remember to start writing positive stories about the Marlins. Around the trading deadline, especially.

He wasn't quite that explicit. He kind of sighed when he spoke about the Marlins' finances, basically saying that it could be logically assumed that the Marlins didn't have enough money. It didn't sound like the Marlins gave Vlad their best shot, and he turned it down. He certainly doesn't expect the Marlins to come up with the money, but who knows?

I think they both will be as good as Urbina, to be honest. They physically have what it takes to close, and the intangibles will put either over the top. For Williamson, he is reunited with a skipper who believes in him and wants to prove he can close. For Benitez, he gets to redeem himself in a pressure-void environment. I think both are capable of a Chad Fox-like turnaround.

Would we be able to get Williamson and Benitez? They sound like they both want to close, and one of them would have to set-up.

Per Sun-Sentinel Bullpen article, the Marlins have a choice of right-handers. It's Mike Nannini or Wilton Chavez. This is with the Lee trade, not Encarnacion. Anyone know anything about either of these guys?

Of all the intangibles, I think this is the main one: Vlad has to be tired of LOSING. Baltimore has had trouble signing players for this very reason, should this be any different? He's dealt with losing his whole career, the defending World Champs schtick will (hopefully) loom largest in his mind. Look at guys like A-Rod, who got all the money he could and ended up losing. Karl Malone took a minimum salary just for a chance at a ring. Winning means a lot to these guys, and another 6 years of losing must be a depressing thought. Eventually, he's going to have to ask if the extra 2 million will make him happy, staying in a city with so few Latins and so few wins. In the post-A-Rod era, money isn't everything. It's most, but not everything. If we can get it up to 14.5, I feel good.

YIKES! I don't know whether to be worried or not. I think Rollins and Abreu are going to have bigger seasons than Nomar and Nixon in '04, at least collectively. The Phillies really didn't like losing to us last year.

Reliever interests Marlins By Joe Capozzi, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer NEW ORLEANS -- The Marlins completed most of their off-season heavy lifting in the past three weeks by trading first baseman Derrek Lee and signing third baseman Mike Lowell and second baseman Luis Castillo to multiyear contracts. But the defending World Series champions certainly aren't done. Watch for Florida to use baseball's winter meetings, which start today at the New Orleans Marriott hotel, to go after free-agent catcher Javy Lopez, All-Star outfielder Vladimir Guerrero and a reliever, possibly Armando Benitez. The Marlins wasted no time after they officially parted with catcher Pudge Rodriguez at midnight Sunday. Less than 12 hours later, Florida was on the phone with Lopez's agent. "I think they're evaluating exactly what they want to do at this point now that Pudge is not in their plans and they expressed some interest in Javy, but there haven't been any number exchanged. We haven't gone any further than that," said Chuck Berry, Lopez's agent. Berry, who expects to talk to Florida's front-office members this weekend, said he has spoken to Lopez about the Marlins. "He likes the idea," Berry said. "It's a possible fit. Being from Puerto Rico, it's very convenient being in South Florida. He's got a home in Atlanta. It's in the National League, so there are a number of positives as far as Florida goes. "It used to be going from the Braves to the Marlins could be disappointing for a guy who has been in the playoffs every year, but the Marlins certainly put that to rest last year.'' Berry also is talking to other teams, including the Baltimore Orioles, who also have inquired about Rodriguez. Lopez, who turned 33 last month, might prefer an American League team because he is open to the idea of being the designated hitter and playing some first base as a break from catching. Lopez made $7 million last year while hitting 42 home runs and batting.328 for the Braves. He is seeking a three- to four-year deal worth about $8 million a year. With the Marlins, he could spell Hee Seop Choi at first base to give playing time to catcher Ramon Castro. Considered more of a long shot is the idea of Florida acquiring Guerrero, considered one of the prime free agents. The Marlins will at least look into whether they can make an offer for the right fielder, who made $11.5 million last year while batting.330 with 25 home runs for the Montreal Expos. "They're talking," an executive from one rival National League team said of Florida's pursuit of the four-time All-Star. Florida has ties to Guerrero, who was signed as a 17-year-old amateur by Fred Ferreira, now in the Marlins' front office. But the Marlins also are aware that Guerrero, 27, turned down a heavily backloaded five-year contract from the Expos worth more than $70 million. The Orioles are considered the front-runner and reportedly are prepared to make a six-year offer for more than $10 million a year. Florida's most likely acquisition out of these meetings might be a closer to replace Ugueth Urbina, a free agent who was not offered salary arbitration. The Marlins have until Dec. 19 to offer a contract to right-hander Braden Looper, who lost the closer's job to Urbina in September. If Florida can cut a deal with Benitez or another veteran reliever, Looper will be cut loose. But would Benitez be a better fit? Benitez has a 3.03 lifetime ERA and a career average of 11.8 strikeouts per nine innings. But he was booed out of Shea Stadium last season when he had seven blown saves in 28 opportunities for the Mets. After a brief stop with the Yankees, he finished the season with Seattle. "We have been fairly open that the bullpen is an area we're going to keep an eye on,'' Marlins General Manager Admin Beinfest said. "We've talked about a lot of things we're going to do this weekend -- re-contacting teams in person and talking about different ideas. "How active are we going to be? We're going to be actively speaking with other clubs on ideas. In terms of pulling the trigger on something, it's not gaugeable at this point. We will have trade discussions. Whether it culminates into something, it's too early to tell.'' Courtesy of the Palm Beach Post Vlad Talking to Marlins, Looking at Benitez

If we sign Benitez and Looper, in the event of Vlad becoming an O, our pen may not be too bad. 3 potential closers with Fox, Looper, and Benitez, all with pretty nasty stuff. If we can get a lefty-stopper, I'd be pretty pleased. The way I see it, it's either: A: Vlad, weak Pen, Castro/Redmond B: Javy Lopez, Benitez? C: Benitez, Looper, other Pen Help Option A gives us the most talented player in baseball, so that is obviously the most desirable. Our pen will be pretty bad, but we've won plenty of games with comparatively weak pens (first half of '03). Option B gives us an excellent C/1B platoon, which should maximize the hitting potential of Choi, Javy, and Castro. Option C gives us a chance to watch Castro develop, with very good pen and starting rotation. Unless the FO really drops the ball, I think we will have a better team on paper one way or the other.

The headline I saw just said Marlins After Vlad....it's on the ESPN main page in a box near the bottom.

If anyone has ESPN Insider, theres some Vlad news. It's on ESPN Rumor Central. Us Vlad-Addicts need a hit.

To be fair, we won in the playoffs with maddeningly inconsistent starting pitching. Pitching wins, but our starters are going to be one of the best in the NL. We need to make sure there's no drop in our O. We won a lot of games with Loop as our closer, and no set-up man.

Javy has said he doesn't want to play everyday, opening up some nice line-up possibilities if we sign him. If he can play 1B, we can put him there when we face lefties. That would allow Ramon Castro, who bashes southpaws, to have quality opportunities while Javy rests or plays 1B. This also knocks Choi out of the line-up against lefties. I don't really know how Choi hits lefties, or Javy plays first. Can this platoon work?

Not to mention that Willis, Cabrera, and maybe even Choi got to the big leagues pretty early. They would be pretty damn good 1-2-3 prospects.

I hate to say it, but maybe the Fish trade Penny or Pavs in addition to Redman in for minor-leaguers if they can get Vlad? I'd hate to do that, and the FO's stance has been build through Pitching, but you never know. We have every possible intangible for Vlad: WS-champion young team, Latins on team and in organization, huge Latin population in great city, no scrutiny of NY or BOS, no state income tax, and FO that he is very fond of. I am starting to believe that Loria broke budget with Pudge for mosty PR reasons, with solid baseball results. Guerrero will trump Pudge on the field, and surpass him in PR! We will see what happens, but I am believing more every day.

I hope I'm not overestimating Beckett and Cabrera's production, because their improvement is key to this team winning the NL East. But I think numbers like this are reasonable, barring injury: Josh Beckett: 2.5 ERA, 20 game winner, over 200 SO. 20-wins and consistent dominace over a season is this guys goal, as he reiterated in countless post-Series interviews. We saw a determined Beckett in the playoffs, and we all know what that can mean. He didn't have one CG last year, but had two in the playoffs alone. This guy will truly be a different pitcher, production-wise, than last year. Miguel Cabrera: .280 BA, 30 HR, 125 RBI. If he played all 162 games last year, his (projected) numbers would be 22 HR and 115 RBI, so this isn't a huge leap. When considering how he IMPROVED his production in the playoffs, against top pitching, these numbers even seem conservative. The things a ballplayer learns from 20 to 21 are immeasurable. In the playoffs, he hit jacks against Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Carlos Zambrano, and Roger Clemens. What do you think he's going to do to the Phillies lefty-staff? Remember, this guy has smased lefties since the minors. Vlad talk is exciting, but the thought of watching these guys grow next year is a blessing we Marlins can't take for granted.

anyway, we wont be favorites, and i dont think we should be Why? I don't mean to be an a**, but what reasons would you give? If we are as good as last year, we're the best team in baseball (and not just because of the Series). Was someone's season last year an aberration? A case could be made for Lowell, but he is a younger player (and All-Star) who had been improving every season. Plus, we missed him for a month anyways. Do we have any players past their prime who are due for a downturn in their careers? Aside from Conine, who keeps himself in top shape, no one fits the bill. Every major player is 28 (29?) or younger, even in the rotation. OK, we lost Urbina, and the Phils gained Wagner. This is big, but our bullpen is not done improving and will slightly close the gap with Philly. Plus, can Wagner alone make up for a difference that was probably a good deal larger than the five-games the Marlins led the Phillies by? The Phils also picked up Milton, an injured SP with a lot of potential. Burnett, anyone? He may not be here until May, but last year a SP that came in May had a pretty huge impact. Burrell is likely to bounce back, but it is just as likely that Thome doesn't repeat his MVP numbers. And Beckett and Cabs last regular season to this one will be night and day. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself a bit, but I feel strongly. I want the Marlins to start getting respect as a team to be feared, instead of a team not to be underestimated.

When I hear ESPN and other media outlets talk about the NL East, the Phillies get most of the attention. In fact, I've seen early predictions pick them number 1. What the hell? The Marlins, in the McKeon Era last year, were the best team in baseball. Jack's Fish, who bear the most resemblance to this year's squad, projected to go 106-56 over a full season and were World Series champs. We bring back everyone important except Pudge and Lee, and our bullpen is being addressed. Beckett and Cabrera are likely to improve on last year's numbers exponentially, we add an ace-level starter in Burnett, and Pavano and Penny are set to improve. I wouldn't be surprised if Penny or Pavs wins 20-games, and I am SURE Josh will (it's his biggest goal). These improvements should make us as good as last year, and we were a JUGGERNAUT last year. The Miggy/Healthy Josh/D-Trian/Jack Fish were not one-year overachievers like the Angels, but a Seattle-2001 type win machine. I think people are selling this team short, including some of us. We should be the most confident team in MLB. Look around baseball, and tell me one roster you'd like to switch with. Our best players have yet to break-out, and are improving more than any other teams superstars. Our other players are all at least in their prime, or before it. I haven't been this excited for a team since the 2001 squad, and I have a lot higher expectations. 100 wins, NL East is the goal. And it should be the prediction.

Just out of curiosity, why do people knock Fudge (on a baseball basis) for the same things Javi brings to the table. Fudge's numbers last season are brushed aside, but that is the type of season Javy has brought to the table consistently throughout his career. His career averages are 30 HR,97 RBI .287 BA. and .839 OPS, which is all inflated after an inexplicable career year. Last Year, Fudge hit 16 HR, 85 RBI, .297 BA and .843 OPS. A little less power, but close in virtually every other category. Assuming Javy has a normal season by his standards, he will do slightly better than a Fudge season many were scoffing at. This is not factoring in the clutch hits and immeasurable fan support. Also, Javy is: 1) Old (Older than Fudge, at 33) 2) Weak Defensively 3) Likely to be Overpaid This would be a downgrade from Fudge, at (at least) the same price. Is Benito Santiago still available? And are there any strong bullpen possibilities we can use our $7 million towards? Maybe in a trade, with us absorbing some cap?